Gender Discussion #12

[Lonelylondon]

I saw on the previous thread someone mentioned about drag being misogynistic. I have always felt a bit iffy about drag, because I do feel that it is men using offensive gendered stereotypes for a laugh, they get to dress up as women and then take off the costumer and walk out having never experienced what it is like to be a woman in society. I’ve never really felt like I can express this, because people seem to see it as an attack on the gay community or something.. and it also makes me feel like I’m just being an annoying ‘Karen’, I know a lot of women don’t speak up on things because of this!
I also find you get ALOT of men speaking out and saying drag isn’t misogynistic … I’m sorry but if I feel like it is sexist, then it is sexist, as a man, you do not get to argue with me on that, in the same way that if a black person feels something is racist, I as a white person do not get to tell them oh no that’s not racist

 

[D-ERF]

The year is 2024.

I enter my office, and I'm greeted by a Blue-Haired Specimen, I say hello back to Xem. Xey're having a heart transplant today to have a female heart inside of them, because, like, Xey've always felt so feminine and loved the girly toys. Xey're so brave . I stand with my Xisters, not just my cisters!

I sit down at my desk, and send a friend of a friend a message.

Two minutes later, the building is surrounded. The door is smashed in, and armed officers flood into the building, each pointing their guns at me. 'What's going on?!' I say.
'PUT YOUR HANDS UP WHERE I CAN SEE THEM, NOW. HOW DARE YOU SEND SUCH VIOLENT DISGUSTING GENOCIDAL ABUSIVE MESSAGES?' The officer's Adam's Apple jiggles as she shouts at me.
'W-What?!' I respond, confused.
'TAKE A LOOK AT THAT TEXT. YOU SIGNED IT XX. HOW DARE YOU BE SO TRANSMISOGYNISTIC?! XY CHROMOSOMES ARE XX CHROMOSOMES, REPEAT AFTER ME! XY CHROMOSOMES ARE XX CHROMOSOMES!'

 

[Ispyabudgetbeanblogger]

I worry about women in families or female friends of males who might be groomed into being a surrogate because it would be the 'kind thing' or the 'dutiful' to do. I can see it happening if surrogacy become s less taboo and more of an expectation. Women get gaslit en masse already, I can definitely see some being manipulated by their friends and family. Much like some women are manipulated into doing other things, or manipulated into putting up with abuse, etc.

Yes, very interesting. When I had my first child I had A LOT of milk. The health visitor and lactation nurse commented on it and tried to convince me to donate to the milk bank. The milk bank is obviously an important service and I applaud any woman who donates her milk, BUT I was a young, first-time mum. I was really struggling. In hindsight, I'm sure I had a bit of postnatal depression, though I thankfully never went really low. The milk bank wasn't mentioned to me only once. I was repeatedly contacted about donating over the whole six months that I breastfed. It was only because I truly hated breastfeeding that I never gave in.

I didn't think about it much at the time, but the way I was approached is in no way how anyone would be approached about donating blood. There was so much guilt tripping on how I had a healthy baby and I had so much milk, and so many women didn't have that. It's actually quite upsetting to write down. Surrogacy will 100% prey on women who have been socialised to be kind and accommodating and caring. It's so wrong.

 

[rosemarina]

I’d love it if men could “celebrate” women by not raping and murdering us in our thousands, paying us the same amount they get paid and pulling their weight en masse around the home.

 

[hydeist]

Why are so many people suddenly suffering from gender dysphoria?

This might come off quite minimising and reductive, but part of me feels like it is just the in thing - like when I was a teenager in about 2005 or so, it was the done thing to be "depressed" and have a MySpace covered in black and metal music, and talk about how miserable we all were. Misery Olympics because it was just the way we communicated and put ourselves forward with each other to be "edgy". But then we all wised up about five years later

Personally I think that there are perfectly normal and decent trans people who transition, get on with their lives and are happier and better people for it, and they deserve all the love and help they can get to become what they need. They don't take up spaces or act like twats online, they are just who they are and their lives have been immeasurably improved by their transition. But I think they are the silent majority and are drowned out by screaming social media teenagers who demand demand demand with no concept of how they affect people's perception of trans people as a whole. And I know that, and so do you, because we were also once teenagers with no concept of anyone around us, screeching for attention and to be given everything we wanted (in one way or another).

Unfortunately the consequence of that is that they are negatively affecting people's perceptions of transitioning as a whole without even realising because they have no self awareness.

 

[Vanelope]

Bethany Shriever just won a gold medal in women’s BMX. She had to crowd fund 50k to get to the Olympics because the funding for women’s BMX was cut after Rio with only men funded by UK Sport. The men got a silver.
This is why women’s sport needs support because we have the talent. I hope UK sport is getting criticism today.

 

[NineTails20]

Well, looks like my oh so woke daughter didn't like my opinion on Laurel Hubbard. Wouldn't even listen to why I thought it was unfair that they were placed into the Women's category of weightlifting at the Olympics. Apparently, it doesn't make her want to introduce me to the 'people in her life', that I'm ignorant, and to 'shut up'.

I am sick of having to keep my opinion, no matter how well expressed it is, to myself. A biological male does not, nor will they ever, belong in a female single sex sport. And if my daughter has a problem with me expressing it, no matter how politely, then that's fine with me.

 

[AnderbeauJohnson]

I never thought I'd say this but FFS MacMillan

 

[jewelkitty]

Oh wow a man coming into one of the only safe spaces women have on the internet to discuss these issues to mansplain and lecture us on what we should find offensive. Shocker.

 

[emmer_moans]

A Tale of 2 Questions...

So calm, when asked what they made of the "historic" participation of LH. Silence, then "No thank you"... *Mic drop*

 

[Gamu]

At work my manager who is a middle class do gooder keeps talking in what she calls "intersectional language" so " pregnant people" you know the sort. In a recent team meeting we are all female I challenged her as she said we had to use pronouns which I had previously told her I wasn't doing and i got loads of support after the meeting but was on my own in it. But at least I made people think.
My manager talks a lot about white privilege and my final blow was I can see nothing more privileged than a white male millionaire depriving an indigenous woman of a podium spot and place in the Olympics. She looked shocked.

 

[Vanelope]

Is having a child a human right? It used to be you had them or maybe you couldn’t and then you adopted or didn’t and were a fabulous child free person with loads of extra money. Now it seems to be that having a child is a human right even if nature has dictated maybe it’s not for you and as women are the only way of making that happen for some people they will be exploited. I know some gay couples adopt - I’m not against gay family units at all - I just find the rise on commodification of women’s bodies to supply babies to gay men unsettling.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

If blackface is (rightly) considered racist, I don't see why drag is seen as a celebration. As pointed out, there are other ways to celebrate women. I've no doubt not *all* drag artists are misogynistic and some absolutely do love women but as a whole, drag is sexist, much like blackface is racist. It makes women into grotesque stereotypes.

Also, to be told not liking drag is homophobic? Please. If anything, it's more homophobic to associate gay men with stereotypes. There are many gay men who wouldn't dream of it. Gay people are not one homogenous group

 

[Phil Anne Throw Pee]

I had several people quote me in the past thread but I can't reply directly for obvious reasons.

I was making the point that drag isn't generally misogynistic. Of course I can't say none of it is, but most of it is a celebration of women. A few 'shock' names doesn't change that. Yes some of it non-PC but it's meant to be tongue in cheek.

You're a man. You don't get to tell us what is and isn't misogynistic. And 'tongue in cheek' #bantz doesn't cut it either.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

Whether he wins or loses it doesn't matter, women have already lost. I'm sorry if that's bleak but it's how I feel right now

 

[HoGi]

I saw on the previous thread someone mentioned about drag being misogynistic. I have always felt a bit iffy about drag, because I do feel that it is men using offensive gendered stereotypes for a laugh, they get to dress up as women and then take off the costumer and walk out having never experienced what it is like to be a woman in society. I’ve never really felt like I can express this, because people seem to see it as an attack on the gay community or something.. and it also makes me feel like I’m just being an annoying ‘Karen’, I know a lot of women don’t speak up on things because of this!
I also find you get ALOT of men speaking out and saying drag isn’t misogynistic … I’m sorry but if I feel like it is sexist, then it is sexist, as a man, you do not get to argue with me on that, in the same way that if a black person feels something is racist, I as a white person do not get to tell them oh no that’s not racist

This is how I feel.

I find drag really uncomfortable and misogynistic

 

[Doc]

I believe there are genuinely people out there who have dysphoria, ie clinical cases.

However, I also think the current explosion of cases is something else. Boils down to pretty much cosplay because they like the *idea* of the role and look of the stereotypical opposite sex and, more importantly, how they are perceived by others. In the case of transwoman who fit into this reason, they don’t want to “be” women. They want to performatively act as women whilst retaining all of the privileges and imposition of being a man. There’s something more sinister and controlling in that scenario.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Not one shower or GCSE between the lot of them. Grown men dressing in pastels and acting the fool outside of Downing Street kicking and screaming for rights they already have.

Look at that forehead! Go back to your IT job and 4Chan Michael!
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State of this, imagine pushing a Bonny baby boy out only for him to be dressed up like a female anime caricature 37 years later demanding unreasonable demands.

I'm totally happy for men to wear dresses...it's just it doesn't make you a literal woman.

And if it's a fetish thing then just don't involve me.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

My new pronouns are no/ thank/ you

 

[CheshireLove]

Tee hee hee! Oh my goodness gracious me! It was just too heavy for my feeble lil lady arms!

It’s the immediacy with which he does this insipid gesture that gets me. Watch the women who fail to lift, they’re devastated because everything they’ve trained for just vanished. Look at Jade Carey’s reaction when she was unable to do her vaults the other day - absolutely devastated.

This untalented man immediately drops the weight, tee-hees and puts up a love heart. Not bothered in the slightest because he’s already achieved what he wanted, a place at the Olympics at the expense of a young woman with dreams and talent. Fuck. Right. Off.