I wonder if her small children are allowed anywhere near it. I'd find the idea of a 3k rug stressful even if I didn't have a 2 year old
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I want to read books by people on this thread! I read the sample of Pandora’s book yesterday and it was so clunky. The way people write on here is cleansing my eyesExactly. Friendly reminder that Pandora is a hereditary title (http://www.thepeerage.com/p19709.htm#i197087). She’s related to Jane Birkin. She went to St Mary’s in Ascot, where term fees are £13,380 a term (and her niece now goes there, so it’s likely she might also send Zadie there). Her house in Kensal was £1.3 million. Christ - her bed is upholstered in Pierre Grey, which goes for upwards of £600 a metre! She categorically isn’t, and can’t be, an objective commentator on the ephemeral “millenial condition”. Her life is so far removed from any kind of normal “gen rent” experience; trying to act as an orator for the middle classes is just laughable. Throwing a tantrum when she (very fairly, and fairly diplomatically) gets called out for doing so is repugnant and spoilt. The article made some really important points, namely that Pandora’s book has an entire essay bemoaning fast fashion and why we all need to buy less, without ever really addressing how her job as ST’s Wardrobe Mistress contributed to and perpetuated consumer culture. She literally made her money, whether through Instagram or her column, by enticing people to buy. Fine - people change, as do consumption habits. But she seems to have a repeating pattern in failing to acknowledge how she is not only complicit, but culpable in the problems facing millennials. She doesn’t seem to understand that she can’t remove herself from the problem - in order to write about it well, she must fully examine her role in these issues. She’s not some observing Alain de Botton-esque voyeur - she’s an ex-fashion writer with skin in the game.
Pierre Frey*
Haha yes and I think the same article says something at the start about completing it within a ‘tight timeframe’ and each time I’ve read it (return offender) I’ve misread it as ‘tight budget’ because that’s what is typically more common.
Also in regards to accepting criticism. I find it interesting that a refrain I’ve heard and been told is that if I insist on taking on board every piece of criticism I also have to accept every piece of praise and I find THAT uncomfortable
. I know that authors, actors etc have to do the self promotion thing but I honestly don’t think I could bring myself to re-tweet praise.
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Sorry for the thread hog but another thing...
I’ve just been reading about the A Level results. I feel sick on behalf of those who been marked down based on little more than the socio economic status of the school. I still have stress dreams about my A levels and I’m in my late 30s. What the actual ARGHHH. It is a total myth that you can get to the position that Pandora and Dolly are in through hard work, grit and determination. The infuriating thing is that by issuing a privilege disclaimer the likes of Pandora and Dolly feel that they are effectively off the hook. There is no need to examine their place and how they contribute to it. The system is not fair but acknowledging that undermines their position and the narrative they tell about how they ‘earned’ their position.
I’ve just been reading about the A Level results. I feel sick on behalf of those who been marked down based on little more than the socio economic status of the school. I still have stress dreams about my A levels and I’m in my late 30s. What the actual ARGHHH. It is a total myth that you can get to the position that Pandora and Dolly are in through hard work, grit and determination. The infuriating thing is that by issuing a privilege disclaimer the likes of Pandora and Dolly feel that they are effectively off the hook. There is no need to examine their place and how they contribute to it. The system is not fair but acknowledging that undermines their position and the narrative they tell about how they ‘earned’ their position.
I’m with you on this. I feel enraged for kids and young adults. What a terrible time to be coming of age.
So a young woman wrote for advice on her drink problem‘I have a history of getting biblically slaughtered every time I get drunk,’ and Dolly responds as attachment. Don’t worry, drinking is great, especially excessive drinking. Given her own drinking problem I fear this will be advice she rues in later life...
Attachments
Lol - like some early 60s Soho bar raconteur and fop (exactly the intent).
Just read this and came to the thread to see if anyone else had seen it!
I was quite enjoying her advice until it got to the part about alcohol. “Modern puritanism” wiping out drinking. What a defensive take.
The girl is moving to Paris to be an au pair. I don’t think it’s a good idea that Dolly encouraged her to accept getting staggeringly drunk is ok. Tone deafness!
What It Really Feels Like To Be A Grown Up…
Three writers in different decades of their lives reveal how they feel about being a woman right now.
www.marieclaire.co.uk
Found this old article which sums up a lot of the chat on here. Dolly declares herself as skint, but then goes on to talk about a recent solo trip to New York, the girl doesn’t know the meaning of skint!
Agreed, clearly ignoring an issue here!
Really enjoying this thread too, sometimes I feel bad for going on Tattle as it has such a bad rap, but i've learnt so many interesting viewpoints on here!
Same re: discussions with friends around class, wealth. Did you ever listen to the Elizabeth Day podcast with Phoebe Waller-Bridge? I thought it was so fascinating when they talked about privilege, upbringing etc
How To Fail With Elizabeth Day: S1, Ep1 How To Fail - Phoebe Waller-Bridge on Apple Podcasts
Show How To Fail With Elizabeth Day, Ep S1, Ep1 How To Fail - Phoebe Waller-Bridge - 13 July 2018
podcasts.apple.com
Same re: discussions with friends around class, wealth. Did you ever listen to the Elizabeth Day podcast with Phoebe Waller-Bridge? I thought it was so fascinating when they talked about privilege, upbringing etc
How To Fail With Elizabeth Day: S1, Ep1 How To Fail - Phoebe Waller-Bridge on Apple Podcasts
Show How To Fail With Elizabeth Day, Ep S1, Ep1 How To Fail - Phoebe Waller-Bridge - 13 July 2018
podcasts.apple.com
Michaela coel absolutely nailed it on a recent episode of the Gal dem podcast about 'taking the note' i.e taking criticism from your peers / bosses. Transcript of the episode is here (search 'take the note' to get to the bit) https://gal-dem.com/growing-up-with-gal-dem-podcast/growing-up-with-gal-dem-transcript-s2e1/
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So glad I found this thread, i'm also one that used to listen religiously every week and now find myself skipping episodes. Am not sure what has changed but just find them more annoying these days.
I'm not a big reader and used to find the amount they read and how they'd talk about books a little intimidating but since actually reading some of the ones they've gushed about and finding them quite underwhelming it's made me question all their reviews. Obviously everyone has different tastes and you can't say someone liking something is 'wrong' but when they bang on about something being so well written and then it reads like a overly long story you might have written at school it makes you wonder.
I'm not a big reader and used to find the amount they read and how they'd talk about books a little intimidating but since actually reading some of the ones they've gushed about and finding them quite underwhelming it's made me question all their reviews. Obviously everyone has different tastes and you can't say someone liking something is 'wrong' but when they bang on about something being so well written and then it reads like a overly long story you might have written at school it makes you wonder.
Me too and also you can understand how they get through so many if they are actually quite lightweight and easy to read.
Someone mentioned Pandora being well-read. To me reading all the latest releases isn’t being well-read, it’s reading a broad range of things and also from people you’re likely to disagree with. Ok maybe she does read stuff like that, but perhaps doesn’t mention it on the podcast to avoid offending people.
Woah, that is some bad advice Dolly. I know no one can really be taking her column seriously and it will all be seen as a bit of fun but when it comes to stuff like drinking which can put people in some real danger it stops being fun and starts being irresponsible.
Quite. If everyone time you get drunk you end up slaughted, that is NOT NORMAL- it is evidence of a tendency to alcoholism- go ask Bryony Gordon.
Do people still write in for advice? I’ve always assumed it’s just made up for content and taking up space and allows the advisor to reinforce whatever it is they need everyone else to think about them.
I think she's hamming up the booze so she can write another memoir about her problem with booze.
I've been lurking on this thread and really enjoyed reading all your discussion.
Like many others here, I too have given up in their podcast, I used to use to discover other content to listen to and read. But now I find most of the things they recommend by myself. I never find they add anything valuable and more to the discussion; it's always "this is an interesting take", "so refreshing" etc.
When clearly very privileged people just "acknowledge their priviage" it really annoys me. I wish they'd explain all the ways they have benefitted, as a fairly common pleb who hasn't had money (apart from Christmas/birthday gifts) from their parents since they were 16, I have no ideas what being "privileged" to that extent actually means or how it works in practice.
I have wealthy friends who have been gifted house deposits or newish cars but I don't know (and I think I'm unlikely to meet) anyone on Pandora's level of rich. I'm more than happy to state I'm jealous of the houses, holidays and clothing Pandora displays - I earn a fair whack, much more than my parents have ever earned combined, but a family home in London is way beyond my means.
How does pandora maintain her lifestyle? The mortgage (if there is one) must be upwards of £5k a month, then there's the nanny and the £3k rugs. How is this possible from a book deal, podcast and occasional articles in the ST style? Do people this rich have a big monthly allowance from parents? Or do they get given £5 mil when they turn 25 that is invested to make an income? If anyone could shed light I'd me incredibly grateful.
I wish there was more transparency, rather just saying "I know I'm privileged". I feel incredibly privileged myself, I've had two parents who've cared for me, EMA whilst I did my A-Levels and maintenance grants/ bursaries that got me through uni, neither of which are available to young people today. Now I realise they are not referring to the same privilege! But as they don't disclose details and position themselves as the working millennium women I felt for a long time that I should be living a life like theirs, and in all honestly felt a bit bad that I wasn't able to - which I now realise is frankly rediculous.
Sorry for the long post!
Like many others here, I too have given up in their podcast, I used to use to discover other content to listen to and read. But now I find most of the things they recommend by myself. I never find they add anything valuable and more to the discussion; it's always "this is an interesting take", "so refreshing" etc.
When clearly very privileged people just "acknowledge their priviage" it really annoys me. I wish they'd explain all the ways they have benefitted, as a fairly common pleb who hasn't had money (apart from Christmas/birthday gifts) from their parents since they were 16, I have no ideas what being "privileged" to that extent actually means or how it works in practice.
I have wealthy friends who have been gifted house deposits or newish cars but I don't know (and I think I'm unlikely to meet) anyone on Pandora's level of rich. I'm more than happy to state I'm jealous of the houses, holidays and clothing Pandora displays - I earn a fair whack, much more than my parents have ever earned combined, but a family home in London is way beyond my means.
How does pandora maintain her lifestyle? The mortgage (if there is one) must be upwards of £5k a month, then there's the nanny and the £3k rugs. How is this possible from a book deal, podcast and occasional articles in the ST style? Do people this rich have a big monthly allowance from parents? Or do they get given £5 mil when they turn 25 that is invested to make an income? If anyone could shed light I'd me incredibly grateful.
I wish there was more transparency, rather just saying "I know I'm privileged". I feel incredibly privileged myself, I've had two parents who've cared for me, EMA whilst I did my A-Levels and maintenance grants/ bursaries that got me through uni, neither of which are available to young people today. Now I realise they are not referring to the same privilege! But as they don't disclose details and position themselves as the working millennium women I felt for a long time that I should be living a life like theirs, and in all honestly felt a bit bad that I wasn't able to - which I now realise is frankly rediculous.
Sorry for the long post!
I note in her book Pandora states she is the main earner of the household — does that mean solely from her work or has she got endless funds from somewhere else? I imagine she must? Considering her husband is a marketing director, which must be upwards of £60k? How much do you think they earn from the podcast, I’d love to know. Can’t be that much money in journalism at the moment.
This is a really interesting point and I can relate a lot. I'm from a working class family, my dad passed when I was 14 so it was just my mum who was working full time and also caring for a family member. Her salary was not high though of course she did get some help. I'm not sure what exactly but certain benefits to help with me and my siblings, and carers allowance, and we got EMA at college too. I then also got a grant and bursary at uni which I didn't have to pay back due to household income.
None of this is to be like feel sorry for me or anything, I consider myself lucky and is just to make the point that I still consider myself privileged. I'm white, able bodied, educated to masters level and have a decent job. I know my grandparents would have stepped in financially if things ever got terrible for my mum which is a luxury so many don't have.
So it is interesting to think what actually is privilege, and is the token disclosure enough from women like Dolly and Pandora while they are unwilling to be challenged on it (e.g. the Guardian piece)? Because I can acknowledge mine, and Pandora acknowledges hers, yet we grew up in and now live in totally different worlds. I don't really have any answers its just an interesting topic..
Edit to add: I don't think every famous or successful person should have to shoehorn privilege acknowledgements in at any opportunity. It's just a sore spot for me with Dolly and Pandora as they seem to want to downplay theirs when it suits them to appeal to normal women. And the topic of Pandora's book I think opens up the discussion of her privilege.
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Call Your Girlfriend (American feminist podcast) did a very interesting episode where they broke down exactly how much they earned from their podcast. It's decent money if you're popular enough but probably not enough to live off as your only income (although I don't know the comparative listener numbers between the two podcasts)
I wish Dolly and Pandora could be open about the extent of their privilege and how they afford everything. It's pointless trying to hide it. I don't have a problem with their privilege per se (not on a personal level; politically is another matter) but the way they try to elude discussions of it with the "obligatory privilege paragraphs".
It is true that women probably face more of these questions than men, but if women are presenting themselves as lifestyle gurus and representatives of millennial women as a whole, I think it's only fair to ask for some accountability.
I wish Dolly and Pandora could be open about the extent of their privilege and how they afford everything. It's pointless trying to hide it. I don't have a problem with their privilege per se (not on a personal level; politically is another matter) but the way they try to elude discussions of it with the "obligatory privilege paragraphs".
It is true that women probably face more of these questions than men, but if women are presenting themselves as lifestyle gurus and representatives of millennial women as a whole, I think it's only fair to ask for some accountability.
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