Doctor Who

[Scotch Mist]

There has been so many plot strands over the last two years that haven't gone anywhere. Like all of Ruby's storylines, why can she make it snow, her mother storyline was a mess etc.

Belinda was just the biggest waste of space companion of New Who, even worse than Adam. We didn't learn anything about her. She just wanted to get home. It was just all awful.

It hasn't helped anyone having such short series, but that's why the focus needed to have been on plot and characters so much as opposed to VFX.

I just watched an episode from Tennants first series and the story telling was so much better then as it was paced so the audience could follow it. A mystery presented itself and the doctor investigated so the twists and turns were mostly explained as it went along without a whizz bang ending of everything being shouted out in the last 5 minutes, just the doctor finally outwitting his enemy by being ingenious and secretly one step ahead.

I don't understand why Russell T Davies isn't able to do this anymore. Loads of things have either gone right over my head or we're just not explained at all.

Have to agree about Belinda, she was just a plot device for this series and never got a chance to display any real personality. Not the fault of the actress who did her best but a fault of the writing.

 

[kachoochoo]

I saw a bunch of spoilers for dot and bubble this morning, but actually seeing it play out was horrendous

lindy and her pals deserve nothing

 

[Justhereforthedrama]

RTD also seems to clumsily shoehorn LGBT themes in in an over compensatory way.


We have had the Christmas special where someone (a trans actor) was saved by being non-binary, and a monster who didn't use human pronouns.

Babies was about refugees then the Beatles one we again had a monster who made a point of saying they were a 'they' then mention of a Mum with an ex girlfriend and a main character who writes sad songs for lesbians.

Dot and Bubble was about racism. I think it was done very well actually. I hated Lindy and her crew by the end of it.

The inclusion of LGBT\minority storylines shouldn't be controversial, but they should also be normal, mundane, pedestrian like LGBT people are in real life. He seems unable to effect subtlety in his writing. And it's jarring and the heavy handedness definitely takes you out of the action when you

 

[Tangerine Dream]

Oh my God, can someone please put Russell T. Davies in a quiet, possibly padded room for a while? He is going on and on and on about what awful nasty bigots anyone who doesn't like anything about the show is, how he is upsetting all the right people, how Doctor Who really feels like a "gay" show now, calling any site where it's not 100% praise a hate site...

The man has lost it.

Art is supposed to be for everyone, I really hate living in this era where we find ourselves being told "this show is not for you" if we are not a soap box ranting identity politics obsessed metropolitian luvvie. It's absurd and it's everywhere - see what's been going on with Starfleet Academy.

It's always the same type of writer/showrunner and the actual powers that be need to do what Pixar recently apparently did, which is tell them that the IP is not their therapy session.

No wonder there are reports of people watching older shows more nowadays.

 

[StephenTJackson]

I am so, so glad RTD is returning. He seemed to have a knack for what chibnall doesn’t which was to give characters dimension and also show diversity or education without grinding the plot to a halt to do so. It’s a shame that Jodie didn’t get to have a run under RTD as I think she would have shone

People say Chibnall has made the show too political, what they actually mean is too blatantly political. Because RTD era was also political, just far less in your face, and more natural.

Also, hoping for more family characters like Jackie Tyler and Martha's mum, and Donna's mum/grandad. Nobody does Doctor Who companion families like Russell did.

 

[StephenTJackson]

The whole two series arc of gods and legends etc. just hasn't worked.

Also in all these episodes, all the gods and myths and legends etc. and not one use of the Trickster. The Trickster does changing realities and creates these alternate universes. It's been shown.

I hope Disney have pulled funding honestly because it has been style over substance for two series. And is hope that less money for VFX forces storylines to rely less on VFX universe ending visuals and more on storylines/plot and monsters made out of silly string, kitchen roll tubes and glue, and the Daleks come back.

 

[MrsPiggleWiggle]

I’m not a huge fan but I skipped through bits of the episode. I have issues with RTD’s writing and particularly his characterisation of gay men but I honestly find it really insulting how we’re all supposed to be OK with the show being turned into a minority interest programme and we’re racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic if we don’t like it.

I find elements of it really uncomfortable. I know a lot of gay men and none of them wear a weird dress like Gatwa was wearing for half of the episode.

 

[becca7721]

Honestly I think RTD needs to let it go, to compare the first new series in 2005 which has been pushed because of the 20th anniversary it was far better then. Billie Piper isn’t the new doctor - I honestly half expected David Tennant again to boost ratings, the ending clearly isn’t reality ans none of the conversations they flashed back to actually happened and there’s clearly no ep at Christmas.

I’ve seriously wondered if Disney have pulled the funding because the ratings have been so poor.

I've enjoyed going back through the old episodes but the most recent ones I haven’t at all,

 

[StephenTJackson]

Where's the creativity that came up with the angels

Even Moffat's episode this season wasn't his best work.

The Angels, the gas mask zombies, the clockwork robots, the vashda narada, so many good monsters/villains from his mind. Ones That are genuinely terrifying.

For years I could never rewatch The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances when I was young because they creeped me out so much.

 

[StephenTJackson]

I don't think people have an issue with the show looking and political or environmental themes. I think they just want a bit more subtlety in how things are written, because sometimes it feels so on the nose that it feels patronising to adults. Like it thinks that everything must be spelled out exactly in case we are to stupid to understand. Well written kids TV doesn't feel like that.

His approach to diversity can feel a little dated. He features a lot of diverse characters, but sometimes it feels like the race/sexuality/disability is the entire or most important part of a character, rather than it just being part of who that person is.

For example, Shirley Bingham the Unit Scientist. She is an ambulatory wheelchair user. It is one of the few things we know about her apart from her job and it is referenced a lot when she is on screen. It doesn't feel like there is anything else to her.

Donna's daughter Rose is saddled with a lot of cringe ' how do you do fellow teenagers!' lines.

Her actress isn't that good, and after her first appearance it feels like she is there just so they could say that there was a trans character in the show rather than give her something meaningful to do.

If she had been a better actress, it would have been great to have her actually travel with the new Doctor and have an arc that was not related to her being trans. That would have been a great step forward for having diversity in the show.

I don't feel like the show is calling me a Bigot, I feel like RTD makes statements suggesting that anyone who doesn't like certain characters or plots must be a Bigot. It makes me feel like he thinks any criticism must spring from bigotry and not from simply wanting things to be better written.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. It feels like tick box inclusion where the diversity characteristic is the personality of the character rather than having a fully formed character who just happens to be disabled/LGBT/whatever

 

[StephenTJackson]

Spoiler: Ummm

Billie piper is a Doctor - how the hell will that work?

There was a leak about this for weeks on Reddit. I like Ncuti Gatwa, but he just didn't fit the Doctor role for me.

If you noticed Billie Piper was not credited as the Doctor at the end, so perhaps there is a reason for that.

I would put £100 very safely on Billie not actually being the next Doctor. She will be some Bad Wolf thing, a one off story, Bad Wolf resetting the universe back to the right timeline, getting rid of the stupid mavity thing and all that nonsense. Then a proper regeneration into the actual next doctor

 

[StephenTJackson]

While series 1 way back in 2005 had some daftness like the farting aliens, I watched The Empty Child/The Doctor Dances last night.

Oh my good grief.

How a show that could produce episodes like that, storytelling like that, acting like that eventually became whatever the ever loving fuck Chibnall and then RTD 2.0 turned it into needs to be studied at the highest level.

Unrecognisable does not begin to cover it, not even when you make sure to account for how much society, attitudes and production style can change within twenty odd years.

What an absolute tragedy.

Was inspired to rant because there is rumour that the BBC can't find anyone to play the doctor (this was rumoured months ago, from the way it is persisting I feel it might be true) and RTD said he's not filming anything else 'this year' after talking about his new series The Tip Tow. This show is in a much worse state than even the 1989 end of the era. Needs resting for at least ten years, then a completely new team of people who actually love what it should be to try again. No trace of any of the current lot who have been there since 2005, they are poison to the brand now.

This says a lot about what's going on with Doctor Who in my opinion.

It's not that they can't find anyone to play the Doctor. There are thousands of jobbing actors, aspiring actors who would bite the BBC's hand off to play the Doctor. And plenty of them would be more than capable of doing the job.

Doctor Who has been a very closed circle since 2005, writers have come from largely the same small group for 20 years, the casting has been very matey. So what is more likely is Russell can't get one of his gang to play the Doctor.


Honestly RTD 2.0 has been one of the biggest disappointments in TV history. His writing gets worse, his producing gets worse, the tick boxing, the poor storytelling, it's all just so heavy handed - and it wasn't exactly subtle during RTD 1.0 at times.

Whole production teams needs throwing out, starting with an entire new team. And honestly, a flimsy storyline to retcon pretty much anything that has happened in RTD 2.0 era. I'm not fussed about the Timeless Child storyline of Chibnall, it was ambitious at least, if not entirely well executed.

Then just start at the basics again, just tell a story of the Doctor turning up on a world, there being a conflict to resolve because one group wants to kill the other and the Doctor saves the day and picks up a new companion. Crack on

 

[becca7721]

BBC saying there’s nothing until at least 2027 now as there’s been no new filming since tonights ep.
Personally I think that means Disney have stopped funding.

 

[Tangerine Dream]

Can't get over RTD's "goodbye" message, what a deeply unpleasant and I will suggest emotionally damaged individual. There is something really wrong there.

Poor Doctor Who. It has wobbled a lot over the years no matter who the showrunner, no era has been perfect. I am just so sad the programme is bowing out like this and not even the showrunner can afford it one last act of grace and dignity by at least taking some pride in his own personal public conduct.

I think the show will be back in some form, probably sooner than it should. I would rest it for at least ten years. Though I think whatever happens it is far too damaged to ever recover.

The moment the hero was lectured about pronouns in what was supposed to be a celebration of 60 years of a "brand" so iconic it had achieved institution status in the eyes of the public, it was over.

He can call people bigots as much as he likes but you can't use such a beloved IP to fixate on a singular rather niche (in the grand scheme of things) message and except everyone to connect with it.

I'm just grateful we have decades of canon before the social engineering took over completely. I'll always have Doctor Who to watch when I feel like it, and I can pretend the worst bits just never happened.

 

[WeepingCassandra]

RTD can never be accused of trying to be subtle.

This is not just an issue for Doctor Who, but something I have seen in a lot of recent shows and films. The writers are obviously trying to be good people and represent minority groups and social issues in their work, but they go about it in a really clunky and shallow way. It is sometimes like they are writing for Child who have never heard these things before. I often find it really patronising.

Some of the lines he gave Rose in the Meep episode were just absolutely cringe. I saw one reviewer on YouTube describing as being very ' how to you do, fellow teenagers'.

I did like the joke that The Meep wants to be called ' The', leading to a scene of people chanting 'All Hail The Meep!'. Also the fact it pointed out that people often refer to timelords as The, eg The Doctor, The Master, The Rani etc and no one gives that a second thought.

It's an issue in advertising and has been for a long time, IMO. I feel like a complete boomer typing this (I'm now, I swear) but...

How many adverts can you think of now that are one straight, white couple with a male/female presenting child set that look like their parents? They all seem to be Dad of one ethnic origin, Mum of a second ethnic origin, one kid of a third and a fourth kid of another one, one of the kids will be ambiguously clothed as well. One of them will have a visable disability too just to make sure that box is checked.

Couples of all races and genders exist, but in the UK, we are an overwhelmingly white and straight population. Diversity and visibility absolutely matters but when you deliberately only include the minorities you're being equitable at all.

 

[TheStrawberryThief]

I've complained about this before on the celebrity gossip threads but Russel T Davis hates women.

I can remember Moffat getting a lot of stick for his women as well. I don't think that Moffat hated women, I think he just has an idea of a 'strong female character' in his head, and he keeps writing that women over and over again ( strong, sexy, witty, flirty....and sometimes bisexual).

I might be wrong, but I think RTD takes a lot of influence from writing for soaps in his older women. Especially when writing mothers and grandmother's. Jackie Tyler feels very much like a soap character to me.

He made Lindy stand in for the failure of her entire society, that has raised her and all the others in Finetime to have such views. It takes more than one day to unpack that and change your mind on something like that. But the people in Finetime didn't immediately do a 180 on their views so they deserve to die or something.

In ' It's a Sin' he made one of the characters mothers the villain of the show. Not failure in government and health care, not society, not the father, not the family of the guy who died who burned all his clothes and things. And he gets the young women , who's entire character revolves around her supporting gay men, to do it.

I am going to have to think about this a bit. I can't fully remember all of his old episodes so may have to jog my memory and see if he keeps doing similar things to women.

 

[Mark81]

I think it needs to be rested a long while like it was in the 90s/00s

The writing since Tennant has either been so overly convoluted, or the complete opposite where the 'moral of the week' has been signposted every step of the way.

 

[Scotch Mist]

Can't get over RTD's "goodbye" message, what a deeply unpleasant and I will suggest emotionally damaged individual. There is something really wrong there.

Poor Doctor Who. It has wobbled a lot over the years no matter who the showrunner, no era has been perfect. I am just so sad the programme is bowing out like this and not even the showrunner can afford it one last act of grace and dignity by at least taking some pride in his own personal public conduct.

I think the show will be back in some form, probably sooner than it should. I would rest it for at least ten years. Though I think whatever happens it is far too damaged to ever recover.

The moment the hero was lectured about pronouns in what was supposed to be a celebration of 60 years of a "brand" so iconic it had achieved institution status in the eyes of the public, it was over.

He can call people bigots as much as he likes but you can't use such a beloved IP to fixate on a singular rather niche (in the grand scheme of things) message and except everyone to connect with it.

I'm just grateful we have decades of canon before the social engineering took over completely. I'll always have Doctor Who to watch when I feel like it, and I can pretend the worst bits just never happened.

Totally agree.
Russell T Davies does come over as a deeply unpleasant bully boy type and I believe Christopher Eccleston when he said that it was a very toxic work environment, which is why he quit after one series. A great shame because Christopher was really good and could have been iconic in the role. I still prefer him to David Tennant because I disliked the doctor getting overly emotional and all the assistants being in love with him.

 

[Sibz]

Did not enjoy that at all. Wow, that's the only time I've been on the side of the monsters and wanted them to eat them all as they deserved it and so the episode would end quicker!

 

[squeeze1]

I miss the Eccleston & Tennant years so much, I know we all have “our” doctors but it just hasn’t felt like the same show for years & that’s nothing to do with JW being female or NG being black etc.

Always give the first episode a go and just never got it. Shite.