Did Richard III kill his nephews ? (was PK real?)

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Vanillaco

Anasnake said:
I don’t think they were buried that night. The bones were found in a chest behind a staircase. It could have been prepared beforehand or they were disposed of days later.

They were definitely hidden and anything identifying taken from them. As I said previously, if they aren’t the boys who are they ? If only they would allow the bones to be tested !!!!!
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Why wont they allow the bodies to be tested? The ideal time to do it would have been after they found Richard. If it was them they could have been buried with their parents.
 
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Zenchick101

Zenchick101

Vanillaco said:
Why wont they allow the bodies to be tested? The ideal time to do it would have been after they found Richard. If it was them they could have been buried with their parents.
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queen thinks it'll set a precedent for opening other royal casket or something - sounds shady though.. they were opened in the 30's and no one cares about deposing your family like..
 
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Vanillaco

Zenchick101 said:
Hi that's my bad actually I was thinking about Perkin Warbeck and wrote PK instead of PW


see I understand that, and that's what I don't understand about Richard III, if it could have been repealed why didnt Richard put out a hit on him too? especially since he had the better claim after the princes in the tower..



Henry viii was a monster, one theory I find interesting though is that his jousting accident completely affected his personality. In a course I had we studied a man in the 1800's who had a rod I believe go through his eye into a part of his brain - which happened to be the part that controls social norms amongst other things, one consequence of that was that this guy went from a normal behaved man to a man who would touch women innapropriately, swear at odd times all because of a brain lesion.
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Yes they thought he'd died didnt they? I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of brain damage had occurred. And yes the open sore in his leg must have affected his mood too.
 
Zenchick101

Zenchick101

Vanillaco said:
Yes they thought he'd died didnt they? I wouldn't be surprised if some sort of brain damage had occurred. And yes the open sore in his leg must have affected his mood too.
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h8? yeah think so- and it would explain the personality change some historians have noted. He was always a manwhore.. but a tyrant that would off his wives?
 
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Vanillaco

Zenchick101 said:
h8? yeah think so- and it would explain the personality change some historians have noted. He was always a manwhore.. but a tyrant that would off his wives?
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Zenchick101 said:
h8? yeah think so- and it would explain the personality change some historians have noted. He was always a manwhore.. but a tyrant that would off his wives?
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There were rumours he had doctors perform a caesarean section on Jane Seymour to save Edward when her labour was too long! I dont think it's true though as she died some time after, but it's interesting that even in those times he was seen as a tyrant and a killer.

Anasnake said:
Been down a bit of a rabbit hole and found this. I know the author was a Ricardian but I thought it was interesting. I didn’t know about the teeth before.
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As Ive been reading this thread, I've changed my mind! That article doesnt say anything. If the bodies arent the princes who are they? Why would two random boys be in the wall? I suppose it could prove that little Richard wasnt Richard and Eluzaberh Woodville had sent another child into the Tower in his place if they were DNA tested. But even if its proved to be them, it doesnt prove Richard murdered them because Margaret Beaufort could have got someone to infiltrate the tower and kill them. Maybe the real reason they havent been tested is because we're still talking about it 600 years later 😄
 
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Reverend

Reverend

When the bones were found, it was noted that there were bits of velvet around the corpses. Velvet was quite a rare cloth for anyone until more recent times, so it can be surmised that the corpses were important people, and if you look at the rich and powerful children that were kept there, and whose burials are not known, there are only two candidates. That's definitive of course, but interesting nonetheless.
 
Zenchick101

Zenchick101

Reverend said:
When the bones were found, it was noted that there were bits of velvet around the corpses. Velvet was quite a rare cloth for anyone until more recent times, so it can be surmised that the corpses were important people, and if you look at the rich and powerful children that were kept there, and whose burials are not known, there are only two candidates. That's definitive of course, but interesting nonetheless.
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that is interesting!

Zenchick101 said:
that is interesting!
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honestly always hoped they had gotten a poor boy to replace Richard.. not that that makes it better family members killing family members is horrific - and maybe I loved the white queen too much - aneurin barnard is fineee
 
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Anasnake

Philippa Gregory does stretch the history a bit too far sometimes, love her books but they can distract from the facts. I read that when the bones were studied in the 30’s one had a skull stain that was consistent with suffocation ????
 
Zenchick101

Zenchick101

Anasnake said:
Philippa Gregory does stretch the history a bit too far sometimes, love her books but they can distract from the facts. I read that when the bones were studied in the 30’s one had a skull stain that was consistent with suffocation ????
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oh interesting where'd you read that? it would support thomas moore's writings on the whole thing
 
Zenchick101

Zenchick101

Anasnake said:
Where can I watch both the White queen and White Princess ?
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Vanillaco

Anasnake said:
Philippa Gregory does stretch the history a bit too far sometimes, love her books but they can distract from the facts. I read that when the bones were studied in the 30’s one had a skull stain that was consistent with suffocation ????
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To be fair, they are fiction 🤣 Agree with you that it does make it difficult to distinguish the facts from the truth. But then again, Richard's reputation is almost entirely based on Shakespeare, who was writing for Henry vii's granddaughter. Anyone questioning the 'bad Richard' narrative would have been questioning her right to be on the Throne.

Zenchick101 said:
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Oh thanks@ you have to pay for them on Amazon!
 
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Zenchick101

Zenchick101

that's for the white queen only -> let me know for the white princess when you're ready

Has anyone read thomas More's writings on the deaths of the princes? basically he was a young child at the time but knew people that had been in R3's court and somehow described the event completely including where the bones were hidden in the tower almost a century before they were found
 
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