Defund the police and more

[caterday28]

I apologise if this has already been posted.

I'm a millennial aged woman and consider myself to be a fairly left-wing and liberal person. However, despite how truly horrified I have been to hear about things such as the Sarah Everard and George Floyd cases I have been really taken aback by the movement to "defund the police", or indeed any message which opposes the police and suggests that the police force has more than just a few "bad" (in some cases, downright abhorrent) apples. I realise it is not the case everywhere, but I like to see the police force in the UK to be decent and trustworthy, much like many professions that people hold in high esteem (e.g. nursing). Please tell me I'm not alone? What do we all think?

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

If we defund the police, what will we have instead?

 

[Tublet83]

Whilst I agree with the shortcoming of the police, I fundamentally do not agree with not have a “police” in place. The country would be carnage in about 5 mins.

 

[Kim Mild]

If we defund the police, what will we have instead?

There is a Steve Coogan film where there are private security companies doing the job of the police

 

[Phoenix Lazarus]

There is a Steve Coogan film where there are private security companies doing the job of the police

They'd be bought by local councils, I assume.

 

[WritersBlock]

You’re not alone. I think this movement is seriously sinister and I wonder if people truly understand the implications. What they’re suggesting, it seems, is the dismantling of democracy and stepping towards dystopia not utopia. I do agree that police should face reform to tackle issues such as sexism and racism but defunding them won’t achieve it.

 

[NeverEnough]

To judge the police force by the actions of Wayne Couzens is a bit like judging all Doctors by the actions of Harold Shipman, or all nurses by the actions of Beverley Allit. Utterly unfair, and I would point out that Couzens will not see the light of day again.

20 years on the job. I took a knife in the line of duty. I have seen guilty as sin people walk free due to admin errors. I have put murderers, rapists, prolific thieves and fraudsters behind bars and I have done my level best to protect my community from the human parasites who would victimise it without once receiving a disciplinary warning.

But I guess that doesn’t fit the current narrative. One cop is evil, therefore all cops are. To those who believe that I say this. If you can remain calm and composed when a drunk thug is spitting in your face, or a predatory gangster is threatening your family then bleeping try it.

Defund Woke pressure groups instead.

 

[Pinkii]

I agree, obviously I understand right now women are angry and they rightly should be angry for what has happened and definitely agree that some things need to change in policing but the whole defund the police is just absolutely laughable.

i have a lot of friends on the police force and see how much they deal with and how they are treated by the public. I have friends who have lost their lives on the line.

the problem is alot of people go bu what the media say and believe everything and seem to think the police have so much power, but from what i have heard, they have so much red tape around what they can/can’t do.

Take the insulate protests, my friend who is met police says every single officer would love to just remove them but they aren’t actually allowed to forcefully remove people if they aren’t being violent, but people don’t understand that.

 

[NeverEnough]

I agree, obviously I understand right now women are angry and they rightly should be angry for what has happened and definitely agree that some things need to change in policing but the whole defund the police is just absolutely laughable.

i have a lot of friends on the police force and see how much they deal with and how they are treated by the public. I have friends who have lost their lives on the line.

the problem is alot of people go bu what the media say and believe everything and seem to think the police have so much power, but from what i have heard, they have so much red tape around what they can/can’t do.

Take the insulate protests, my friend who is met police says every single officer would love to just remove them but they aren’t actually allowed to forcefully remove people if they aren’t being violent, but people don’t understand that.

If I had even the fraction of the power I’m supposed to have had half of the criminal population of County Durham would be behind bars. Believe me the power in the legal system lies with lawyers. And the most eloquent one you can afford the better your chances of being cleared, or at least getting a reduced sentence. Money, not race or gender, is behind the inequities in the Criminal Justice system.

Nationalise the legal profession? Possibly. Defund the police? OK but don’t come crying to me when crimes against women skyrocket.

 

[Blue pumpkin]

Defund the police doesn't mean abolishing the police force or cutting pay or cutting back on police numbers.

It's about cutting back on astronomical police budgets
It looks to shed more light on police spend, cutting back and reinvesting the money in the local communities.

I think the name 'defund police' is stupid and misleading especially for those who don't read beyond the headlines.

It's about cancelling pensions, it's about not allowing bent coppers to resign on full pensions, it's about not allowing killer coppers to keep their huge pensions. Coppers that have been convcited of rape and served sentences have been able to keep their police pensions.

Four police officers spent three weeks partying in Spain when they should have been catching crooks.

Also sick pay is a huge problem across the UK with forces. One cop was off sick on full pay for four years with a bad back and spent most of that time on the golf course until a local newspaper exposed him. One of many. There is a lot of financial abuse.


I'm not anti police I'm just explaining what 'defund the police' actually means.

They need to change the name of the group as it's ridiculously misleading.

 

[Pinkii]

But they really don’t have an astronomical budget, people seem to think they do, they have cuts after cuts every year and its the public who suffer from this more than anyone, the average police on the streets see’s no benefit of Any budgets mentioned in the media.

i agree about pensions though, no reason why someone like that disgusting human wayne should be able to keep any part of his pension

 

[NeverEnough]

Defund the police doesn't mean abolishing the police force or cutting pay or cutting back on police numbers.

It's about cutting back on astronomical police budgets
It looks to shed more light on police spend, cutting back and reinvesting the money in the local communities.

I think the name 'defund police' is silly and misleading especially for those who don't read beyond the headlines.

It's about cancelling pensions, it's about not allowing bent coppers to resign on full pensions, it's about not allowing killer coppers to keep their huge pensions. Coppers that have been convcited of rape and served sentences have been able to keep their police pensions.

Also a huge problem across the UK regarding sick pay. One cop was off sick on full pay for four years with a bad back and spent most of that time on the golf course until a local newspaper expose him. One of many. There is a lot of financial abuse.


I'm not anti police I'm just explaining what 'defund the police' actually means.

They need to change the name of the group as it's ridiculously misleading.

Does the defunding of a pension refer to anyone who has been convicted of a crime or just a police officer? And how much do you think a police pension is worth because you use the word “huge”. News to me.

And again is public sick pay to be defunded for just the police? What about nurses. There are massive numbers currently claiming it for “stress”. I was stabbed on duty and had to take two months off on sick pay to wait for my stitches to heal or my intestines would have fallen out. Was I swinging the lead?

Sounds to me that if we are going a full review of public funded sickness benefit then you have to extend it to all of those currently claiming public funds. Which includes those currently in receipt of DLA and UC. And do you really really want to go down that rabbit hole?

 

[WilmaHun]

Isn't the starting wage for a police office something in the region of £20k per annum. Imo that's a low wage for the tit they have to deal with. Young, inexperienced officers dealing with dangerous situations for £20k per annum!? Doesn't seem worth it to me, they could have a cushty office job with little to no stress, no danger for that or more.

I don't doubt that some areas need reform - officers are surrounded by so much red tape which limits what they're able to do. People criticise them daily but fail to recognise that it's not their fault - there are limitations on their powers. Perhaps people ought to criticise and call for reform of the practice codes providing the framework of policing before they demand the police are defunded.

I think it's wrong to use the likes of Wayne Couzens to judge a whole force. One bad egg doesn't represent the whole force. Not everyone is the same.

 

[Blue pumpkin]

Does the defunding of a pension refer to anyone who has been convicted of a crime or just a police officer? And how much do you think a police pension is worth because you use the word “huge”. News to me.

And again is public sick pay to be defunded for just the police? What about nurses. There are massive numbers currently claiming it for “stress”. I was stabbed on duty and had to take two months off on sick pay to wait for my stitches to heal or my intestines would have fallen out. Was I swinging the lead?

Sounds to me that if we are going a full review of public funded sickness benefit then you have to extend it to all of those currently claiming public funds. Which includes those currently in receipt of DLA and UC. And do you really really want to go down that rabbit hole?

You're shooting the messenger. Like I clearly said in my post I'm not a anti police. I have two police officers in my extended family.

I've just explained and given examples of what defund the police means because some think it means abolish the police.
It's not my personal opinion and I'm not part of 'defund'.
What I've stated is examples that community groups under that banner of 'defund' want addressed.

 

[Shinythings]

Yeah, I'm the same. I'm pretty liberal but not having a police force is bleeping stupid and the reality is despite all the cuts, they still do a lot of good. Yes, there are fundamental issues that need addressing but defunding the police is not the way to go.

Again it's a case of people who have no idea what they're talking about or what working in the police is like jumping on a bandwagon.

 

[NeverEnough]

You're shooting the messenger. Like I clearly said in my post I'm not a anti police. I have two police officers in my extended family.

I've just explained and given examples of what defund the police means because some think it means abolish the police. It's not my personal opinion and I'm not part of 'defund'.
What I've stated is examples that community groups under that banner of 'defund' want addressed.

Well it would be interesting to see where these “community groups” are getting their information from because I can guarantee there is a clause in my police pension agreement which means it will be forfeit in the event of gross personal misconduct, of which I assume murder and rape is pretty likely to be included.

Those “community groups” are talking out of their collective arses. I know fine well who the police are answerable too, this is set out clearly in a published complaints and disciplinary procedure. Who the hell are “community groups” answerable too when they peddle such half truths and outright lies?

 

[Tublet83]

All large organisations should change and reform. But frankly pulling apart sickness records of front line officers who have had work through 10 years of austerity, lack of funding, redundancies and no recruitment for the police service is insulting.

 

[NeverEnough]

All large organisations should change and reform. But frankly pulling apart sickness records of front line officers who have had work through 10 years of austerity, lack of funding, redundancies and no recruitment for the police service is insulting.

Agree with this. And as I have said previously if we are going to do this with the police on the grounds that they are publicly funded then you must also look at the sickness records for NHS staff, teachers, social workers, and council staff. It would surely be only fair and what community groups want most of all is fairness right?

And if they are worried about violence against women I would point out that a compulsory national DNA database would result in the immediate arrest of hundreds of alleged rapists and violent men. But to even suggest such a thing would result in an apoplexy from said community groups. You know what I don’t even think they give a toss about Sarah Everard. They want to weaken the bonds in society, of which the police are a major one, in order to promote their extreme ideology. Nothing like a touch of anarchy to make anything seem better.

 

[caterday28]

To judge the police force by the actions of Wayne Couzens is a bit like judging all Doctors by the actions of Harold Shipman, or all nurses by the actions of Beverley Allit. Utterly unfair, and I would point out that Couzens will not see the light of day again.

20 years on the job. I took a knife in the line of duty. I have seen guilty as sin people walk free due to admin errors. I have put murderers, rapists, prolific thieves and fraudsters behind bars and I have done my level best to protect my community from the human parasites who would victimise it without once receiving a disciplinary warning.

But I guess that doesn’t fit the current narrative. One cop is evil, therefore all cops are. To those who believe that I say this. If you can remain calm and composed when a drunk thug is spitting in your face, or a predatory gangster is threatening your family then bleeping try it.

Defund Woke pressure groups instead.

I agree about treating everyone in a profession by the actions of select individuals. It's not fair, and I don't understand why the police force has been singled out.

Thank you for what you do (or have done, if you're no longer serving) for the country as a police officer. It's a role I have so much respect for - I understand police are often treated like dirt, by both criminals and non-criminals alike, sadly.

I think there is a place for pressure groups but I really dislike band-wagon jumping!

 

[Booington]

Agree with this. And as I have said previously if we are going to do this with the police on the grounds that they are publicly funded then you must also look at the sickness records for NHS staff, teachers, social workers, and council staff. It would surely be only fair and what community groups want most of all is fairness right?

And if they are worried about violence against women I would point out that a compulsory national DNA database would result in the immediate arrest of hundreds of alleged rapists and violent men. But to even suggest such a thing would result in an apoplexy from said community groups. You know what I don’t even think they give a toss about Sarah Everard. They want to weaken the bonds in society, of which the police are a major one, in order to promote their extreme ideology. Nothing like a touch of anarchy to make anything seem better.

100% on every point you make. Policing by consent means The police are crippled by trying to appease every group/organisation/minority out there. those with agendas are shouting the loudest.