Constance Marten and Mark Gordon #8

[DianaBanana]

Prosecutor Joel Smith asked Marten about Ian Josephs, who she said yesterday is a millionaire who runs a website called 'Forced Adoption' which campaigns against social services.

Marten said: 'He's very, very intelligent, so he can look at how the family court conduct themselves in removing children.

'They have got such a low threshold of evidence that it's very easy from them to take children away.'

Mr Smith then read some of the 'golden rules' from Mr Josephs' website including never contacting social services for help or advice.

He also suggested partners should think 'very carefully' before reporting a partner for assault or a sexual assault on a young member of the family by a stranger.

Marten agreed it was better never to contact social services for help or advice.

So she’s basically admitted that she’d lie about domestic violence.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...ment-connections-embarrassed-mark-gordon.html

 

[pommobear]

Prosecutor Joel Smith asked Marten about Ian Josephs, who she said yesterday is a millionaire who runs a website called 'Forced Adoption' which campaigns against social services.

Marten said: 'He's very, very intelligent, so he can look at how the family court conduct themselves in removing children.

'They have got such a low threshold of evidence that it's very easy from them to take children away.'

Mr Smith then read some of the 'golden rules' from Mr Josephs' website including never contacting social services for help or advice.

He also suggested partners should think 'very carefully' before reporting a partner for assault or a sexual assault on a young member of the family by a stranger.

Marten agreed it was better never to contact social services for help or advice.

So she’s basically admitted that she’d lie about domestic violence.

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...ment-connections-embarrassed-mark-gordon.html

I just looked at this website and it is full on next level batshit.

 

[lucylucyapplejuicy]

I honestly think she believes she would never be sent to a real prison. She's probably expecting a sentence like, "oh daaahhling, what an ordeal. You need some R&R asap. I sentence you to two months at a fabulous spa in Antigua."
mark knows what prisons like, I don't think she has a clue. Would she be in isolation?

I expect she will, but so was Ian Watkins and somehow he got stuck in a cell with some non-fans for at least 6 hours and didn’t come out as well as he went in…

 

[MurielSnark]

I expect she will, but so was Ian Watkins and somehow he got stuck in a cell with some non-fans for at least 6 hours and didn’t come out as well as he went in…

Why would she be in isolation? Plenty of women in prison on charges of child neglect / endangerment, aren't they?

If I were in prison, I'd probably campaign to have Toots put in isolation, TBH. I think she'd be insufferable to live with. Can just imagine her trying to be like all the other rough gals, all full of bluster and mouthing off about the system, all the while also probably lecturing everyone in her posh braying voice and going on about how oppressed she is and how boarding school was worse than incarceration. And having expensive stuff sent to her by her wealthy trustees. I think I'd want to take her down a peg or two, myself.

She's already been there a year and perhaps, just perhaps, it will be the making of her. The toxic bond with Mark will be hard to keep up and she may have an opportunity to learn some skills or get a qualification and perhaps treatment for any undiagnosed mental health conditions. I don't imagine it's easy, by any means, but it might just burst the bubble of her current delusions.

 

[HotesTilaire]

I expect she will, but so was Ian Watkins and somehow he got stuck in a cell with some non-fans for at least 6 hours and didn’t come out as well as he went in…

To be fair, he deserves it, again and again. He is bad rather than mad.

 

[lucylucyapplejuicy]

Why would she be in isolation? Plenty of women in prison on charges of child neglect / endangerment, aren't they?

If I were in prison, I'd probably campaign to have Toots put in isolation, TBH. I think she'd be insufferable to live with. Can just imagine her trying to be like all the other rough gals, all full of bluster and mouthing off about the system, all the while also probably lecturing everyone in her posh braying voice and going on about how oppressed she is and how boarding school was worse than incarceration. And having expensive stuff sent to her by her wealthy trustees. I think I'd want to take her down a peg or two, myself.

She's already been there a year and perhaps, just perhaps, it will be the making of her. The toxic bond with Mark will be hard to keep up and she may have an opportunity to learn some skills or get a qualification and perhaps treatment for any undiagnosed mental health conditions. I don't imagine it's easy, by any means, but it might just burst the bubble of her current delusions.

Because it’s such a high profile case, and a lot of women don’t take kindly to non-remorseful parents whose children died because of their actions. Obviously I don’t know for sure, but that’s usually what happens to my understanding

ETA, I didn’t mean isolation, I meant protective custody. Isolation is something very different.
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To be fair, he deserves it, again and again. He is bad rather than mad.

Oh agreed, agreed 1000 times over. I was delighted when he didn’t die, and I read that they’d done that on purpose. I don’t think CG deserves that btw, I was making the point that protective custody is never 100% protective

 

[SELdnGal]

Today's testimony was brief but just awful. She takes absolutely zero responsibility. She shoves her dead daughters body in a shopping bag, covered her with mud and rubbish, and now we find she left her in a crappy nappy! But it's ok! Because that's just a body, it's not her SOUL. So it doesn't matter what you do to the corpse of someone, I suppose? I now don't believe anything she says, and actually can fully believe they purposely killed Victoria to keep her from social services. And they would justify that as doing the right thing. The right thing would have been for them to use contraception.

I don't think CM is well, I think she has a personality disorder or is experiencing some kind of psychosis. But she's just so arrogant and insufferable.

 

[Emsie]

I think these groups have conflated a strategy that was set by central government, probably 10-15 years ago whereby they were seeking

i think these groups have conflated central government strategy to decrease the amount of children in short term foster care into adoption more quickly. From what I can remember, local authorities were given targets to achieve and additional funding when certain targets were met.

Yeah but the FA groups totally miss the point. They make out either the social worker themselves recieve it or adopters do. Perhaps if they stopped putting their kids in harms way we wouldn't need incentives.
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Omg I had no idea these groups existed, did a quick FB search and they’re all delusional cranks like her; most basically admitting they’re regular drug users, in DV relationships, criminal records etc but they were perfect parents so SS stole their kids for money if it’s wasn’t so tragically sad it would be hilarious. These people don’t love their children, just like this witch on trial. Crazy’s everywhere.

Their version of love is warped. I actually do think most of them do love their children but they are incapable of putting their children's needs before their own. Love isn't enough. Children need love and a million other things as well

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

I agree, think today they are drawing her out more to give definitive yes or no answers and more details re: the day to day living and caring for Victoria in the tent , but it’s mostly the same questioning.

“When we were discussing things she was placed between us”- sounds like arguing/fighting to me.

Babies can cope as long as me their mother gives them what she needs

Babies shouldn’t have to “cope”, they should be allowed to thrive

 

[TheArtisticMouse]

Is she fully aware her baby died? I only ask because all her counter arguments to the questioning seem to forget this one detail. “Jesus was born in a barn”; “Bedouin babies survive in a tent”; “babies don’t need much to cope” - sure these are all true, but they don’t prove her point when the main evidence in this case is her half decomposed baby’s body in a bag for life.

 

[Officedoor123]

So the main take away from Constance is that all of the actions she took killed Victoria BUT it wasn’t her fault.
She’s tall isn’t she?

Tall stories certainly

 

[Square Peg]

Wisest thing she's done since deciding to "perform" in the dock. Just so long as it's not morning sickness...

It would be a miraculous conception, bit like how Jesus came about

 

[Hyacinthsquash]

I’m kind of surprised she’s taller than MG. She is so arrogant it’s almost like she doesn’t understand the seriousness of it all. Saying Victoria's body isn’t her soul but.. they wanted to keep it with them? I can honestly say I’ve treated dead pets with more dignity and that includes a goldfish and a hamster! Pray she is locked away long enough that she can never reproduce again.

 

[spillallthetea]

Ian Joseph’s:
He also suggested partners should think 'very carefully' before reporting a partner for assault or a sexual assault on a young member of the family by a stranger.

This is absolutely horrendous , so they obviously used his services at some point or looked it up on their phone that the prosecution has raised it.

 

[Square Peg]

If she thinks she did nothing wrong and she only lived in tent to protect Victoria from social services after she passed from an accident ( in her opinion) why didn’t she get out of tent and go to police and report what happened as an accident and get post Mortem done when it was possible.
instead they carried on, trapsing about with a dead body trying to evade capture. they weren’t even going to admit to police where her poor body was till police found it.

Speculation on my part, a postmortem carried out immediately would show the true cause of death, like hypothermia or gas poisoning from too much CO2 under that coat.

 

[neroli]

Speculation on my part, a postmortem carried out immediately would show the true cause of death, like hypothermia or gas poisoning from too much CO2 under that coat.

Or malnutrition/dehydration?

 

[CabalofBolorneaise]

This line of questioning, are they trying to get to his past conviction? Rather than her family being bigoted etc, are they trying to highlight they were concerned about his conviction.. not his skin colour

I personally don’t believe the theory that they didn’t disclose his past conviction to the jury/that’s why he didn’t take the stand because he might slip and tell them.

It was so widely reported at the time of the search there would be no point hiding it. The judge may have told them not to let it cloud their judgment automatically on this (in more legal terms of course) but I think the ship had sailed on him hiding it the second they were front page on basically every paper in the country.

 

[spillallthetea]

Just caught up .. so more cross examination tomorrow..

I personally don’t believe the theory that they didn’t disclose his past conviction to the jury/that’s why he didn’t take the stand because he might slip and tell them.

It was so widely reported at the time of the search there would be no point hiding it. The judge may have told them not to let it cloud their judgment automatically on this (in more legal terms of course) but I think the ship had sailed on him hiding it the second they were front page on basically every paper in the country.

Yep I agree.

 

[Asterix]

Catching up but you know what she reminds me of? Those animal rescuers that become hoarders and keep them in squalor cos they think their "care" is still better than anyone else's.

 

[Nottonightbabe]

Or malnutrition/dehydration?

I'm pretty sure that would have been a factor in her death. Breastfeeding can be hard to get established in ideal circumstances, let alone in their situation. I can't imagine CM was a diligent and responsive mother in ensuring she fed her frequently enough. Poor mite was neglected from all angles.