Thread #1 Clementine Ford
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Let me just start by saying the whole “leave your husband” rhetoric is a bit rich from someone who’s never had a successful relationship
And loves to gloat that she has sex with married men. God she’s painful
I was such a big supporter of Clem and still think she does some good stuff. But my God she does not need to be so nasty to anyone who doesn't agree with her! Its completely fine to be anti marriage, I am not married and don't intend to, but the high horse way she speaks about it is not it. Just let people do what makes them happy..
Ah I wasn’t aware of that. Gross.And loves to gloat that she has sex with married men. God she’s painful
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I mean it’s one thing to encourage someone in an abusive or unhappy marriage to leave their husband but on the other hand marriage makes lots of people happy.
When has she done that? That is gross, I haven't heard her talk about that beforeAnd loves to gloat that she has sex with married men. God she’s painful
Gloat is maybe the wrong word. She has mentioned it multiple times of her q and as. She had slept with several married men and said something along the lines of it’s not her problem they cheat, which is technically true but gross.
That is so strange and gross. I don't understand why she dates men at all if she despises them so much. We never hear about her dating antics with other genders. The focus seems always to be about men.And loves to gloat that she has sex with married men. God she’s painful
I guess women aren't as problematic...
I love a lot of what Clem has to say, adored her 'How To Love' book (haven't read the others yet - I read for escapism and get the sense they would feel more like work), and generally feel she does more good than bad. I think there's a frightening number of women in the world who would benefit deeply from heeding Clem's advice. But the totality of her opinions has never sat well with me. She's very all-or-nothing, and some of what she believes to be utterly, totally true just isn't. There is nuance and context to everything - I saw her speak live at a writer's event last year and the hardcore "don't get married and if you are already, you're dumb" grated a bit. It's just not as black and white as that. I understand feeling deeply perturbed by the history of marriage, but it is possible to reclaim something, or do it in a way that doesn't "honour" the tit of the past. Otherwise, by that logic there are loads of things we should veer away from now and vilify others for doing.
The history of something is often worse than the current state. That's evolution.
I’ve wondered that also. Probably date isn’t the word. Match online and get jiggy. Her relationships with women seem plutonic. I don’t listen to the podcasts so it’s just what I see on IG.
I honestly feel like Clementine's take on marriage is based on a) her own partnership falling apart and b) WAAYYY too much time spent reading mums groups complaints about their tit husbands. Everyone knows horror stories about men who literally never change a nappy, can't be left alone with their own children, and complain their wives aren't earning any money while they run the entire household. Those women are in borderline (and sometimes outright) abusive situations and they do need help. But no one goes online to sing the praises of the partner who takes on night wakes, daycare drop offs, uses his parental leave and actually loves his wife! It just feels like the most sensationalised, black and white take.
I actually agree with so many criticisms of marriage and to be honest I don't know if I would do it again - I was young, what can I say. But I also really believe in trying to make a long term relationship work, which you can't do by calling ultimatums and slamming doors as you leave.
I actually agree with so many criticisms of marriage and to be honest I don't know if I would do it again - I was young, what can I say. But I also really believe in trying to make a long term relationship work, which you can't do by calling ultimatums and slamming doors as you leave.
This. I'm not anti Clem by any stretch but I find her takes often very unrelatable in how black and white they are and lacking in complexity of the topic. It's not a nuanced analysis, just someone's very vocal opinion presented as fact.
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I do agree because my experience of early motherhood was your first example (all that crappy behaviour) but it took me socialising with my mum group friends and seeing how their husbands parented and handled things that really opened up my eyes. 2 of the dads were so hands on and caring and I was like
woah I want this too for myself (and my baby) or I want to be single.True! Im curious if she will feature positive and successful stories of marriage in her new book. I personally don’t see the institution of marriage as particularly relevant nowadays given that most of the same legalities apply to a de facto situation. But, I’m not shitting on people who want to be married!
Yes exactly! I basically had a divorce after I split with my ex well over a decade ago (de facto, no kids but I had amassed a decent amount of property at a young age). Years of family court, lawyers and dollars later and I no longer have any interest in marriage but don't begrudge anyone who does. It annoys me when people feel sorry for me for being in a long term relationship not married as though I am missing something. I just point out that would be like me assuming their marriage must be an unhappy one. It's unfair, and like others have said, lacks nuance. Be married, don't be married for whatever reasons you choose, it's none of my business.
Same, never been married, no interest in getting married. Happy to go to weddings though and eat the free food and drink the booze and celebrate the choice made by consenting adults.
The issues with marriage that Clem claims are problematic are present in de facto relationships too. If people want to celebrate their union by having a party and have it ‘recognised’ by the state then why begrudge it? The issues she talks about are to do with relationships between a man and woman regardless of whether they are married.
I too have issues personally with this black or white, all or nothing approach. But then I also sort of think that it takes these extreme views to stimulate the conversation amongst those in the middle, if that makes sense? If she was balanced and nuanced about everything then maybe she’d just get lost in the internet abyss.
That's an interesting perspective. I don't mean that sarcastically! Hard to tell tone on internet but I mean it genuinely.
So you think sensationalist or hard line views are OK because they get people in the middle talking? Personally I don't think it's a good approach, and off putting to many. It also makes it hard for me to take that writer seriously as the exaggeration diminishes the argument for me.
It’s so far opposite from my own views but I feel like (whilst not everything she says), her being very extreme and outspoken and rigid in her feminist beliefs at least prompts conversations, gets people talking (even if to disagree). It may be a tactic of hers.
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