That was my point, that she won't critique motherhood because she is a mother. So in black and white thinking, motherhood is good. She says she doesn't want to get married, so all marriage must be bad.
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Dr Amy Thunig being academically above her probably doesn’t sit too well either.
So true!!
She also won’t attack the toxic beauty standards that most women feel prone to adhering to as she herself is one of those women…if clem had been married and was speaking from a lived experience I would listen to her more but coming from someone who isn’t married and seems quite bitter, I find her take really one sided.
I haven’t been paying attention, can someone tell me, is clems book / take on marriage only about heterosexual unions?
Indeed.
Attachments
Genuinely curious to read this because I’m wondering if I could be swayed on her thoughts or if I’d just begin to unpack her.
Thank you! I’m interested to see how much it only relates to marriage, or if it is tied more broadly to the general concept of hetero coupledom. I totally get the dark origin and history of marriage, and also the commercialisation of the wedding industry ($$$.) I also understand that finding a partner to settle down with has been a pretty standard societal expectation (along with having kids, buying a house.) I’d argue though, that getting married is probably the least important it has ever been; so will the book take a full swing and delineate from the institution of marriage, and go onto argue that the whole concept of a long term hetero relationship is tied to the patriarchy and doesn’t best serve women? I suppose I’ll have to read the book and find out.
I attended a talk she did last year off the back of How We Love, the premise being "to reflect on her work past, present and future" in conversation with a host but she mainly bitched about men and talked about the research she'd been doing for I Don't. It sounded heavily weighed toward being anti long term heteronormative relationships rather than marriage specifically, but I too will have to read the book to be sure
Her main point seemed to be, why would you engage with it at all if you knew the history? Regardless of your circumstances, if you choose to marry now you're endorsing what it stood for before. (Which I fundamentally disagree with FYI but hey ho.)The blurb also mentions covering "the physical and social cost that comes with motherhood" so it'll be interesting to see how much she delves into that (harking back to earlier comments noting she doesn't speak out against motherhood, being a mother herself). I don't think that "cost" is marriage's fault by the way; rather capitalism and the way society is structured now. Which I guess you could argue is men's fault, as current society structure was basically established by the patriarchy...... But again, I'll have to read the book
Well said and agree with your points! I think the book will be both interesting but also contentious and while it may be educational (re history etc) I don’t think it’ll totally revolutionise the way marriage is viewed by the majority. It’ll sell though and I guess that’s the pointI attended a talk she did last year off the back of How We Love, the premise being "to reflect on her work past, present and future" in conversation with a host but she mainly bitched about men and talked about the research she'd been doing for I Don't. It sounded heavily weighed toward being anti long term heteronormative relationships rather than marriage specifically, but I too will have to read the book to be sure
The blurb also mentions covering "the physical and social cost that comes with motherhood" so it'll be interesting to see how much she delves into that (harking back to earlier comments noting she doesn't speak out against motherhood, being a mother herself). I don't think that "cost" is marriage's fault by the way; rather capitalism and the way society is structured now. Which I guess you could argue is men's fault, as current society structure was basically established by the patriarchy...... But again, I'll have to read the book
I'm assuming so, however there are some people in same sex relationships where one person takes on the more traditional male roles and the other takes on the traditional female role
So marriage or a long term relationship with a man is bad…..but motherhood and co-parenting with the father of your child (like she does) is ok? 
Hmmm.
Leave your husbands! Because I say so
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I mean motherhood is exhausting and taxing on women’s emotional, financial and physical state…
Hmmm.Leave your husbands! Because I say so
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I mean motherhood is exhausting and taxing on women’s emotional, financial and physical state…
She said in the podcast about marriage the other day ‘I personally don’t believe that you can make marriage queer”.
She says it right after 4:00 into the clip.
I think it's less about marriage per se and more about marriage being a byproduct of patriarchy (from her perspective obvs).
It is hard to compare same sex unions to a hetero union and the power imbalance that often occurs in a heteronormative partnership won't in a same sex union. Though they obviously can have their own power struggles.
The institution of marriage overall is about power over minority groups, women in this case. But same sex couples were a minority who didn't have marriage as an option until very recently. And that is due to the origins of marriage which is what the book is about.
The institution of marriage overall is about power over minority groups, women in this case. But same sex couples were a minority who didn't have marriage as an option until very recently. And that is due to the origins of marriage which is what the book is about.
Imagine OTHER people getting married pissed you off this much?! Babe, OTHER peoples happiness and CHOICE to get married is not you.
Its truly not that deep you miserable bleep.
Yes She also advocated for marriage equality. She is such a contradiction and just seems to jump on any idea that will help her produce content and relevancy.
I know. I don't hate myself enough to read it
I really like Clem and all her work but I won't be getting this one
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