GrunkaLunka
VIP Member
She sealed her own fate by attacking someone with a weapon, while he was asleep and then killing herself. None of this was caused by the victim.
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VeniVidiVicki
VIP Member
Her mum wanted her to be treated as special. The CPS didn’t make an example of her, they treated her like anyone else who there was watertight evidence of had assaulted someone else and denied it.
I‘m a woman who is massively pro women (and you can see my other posts on here for evidence of that) but I really draw the line at abuse. Flack was a mentally unwell woman who had a track record of abuse. She assaulted her boyfriend (of 3 months remember - they barely knew one another) and then when he called the police, she self harmed to such an extent the bed was covered in blood.
I cannot rationalise this as anything other than abusive behaviour.
I‘m a woman who is massively pro women (and you can see my other posts on here for evidence of that) but I really draw the line at abuse. Flack was a mentally unwell woman who had a track record of abuse. She assaulted her boyfriend (of 3 months remember - they barely knew one another) and then when he called the police, she self harmed to such an extent the bed was covered in blood.
I cannot rationalise this as anything other than abusive behaviour.
ahtisyourself
VIP Member
You have to give Lewis credit where it’s due to be fair. In the five years since her death, I don’t think he’s ever done even one media interview or sob story or even shared anything online about what went on or divulged any details. There’s many a z lister who would have milked what happened for all it’s worth and done interviews galore, written books and completely capitalised on what went on. His biggest crime really seems to be moving on with his life?
LadyWeatherwax
VIP Member
The CPS were quite clear that her drunken state, the fact she assaulted her sleeping partner and then self-harmed when he called the police were aggravating factors. I agree with them.
He was asleep. He had no opportunity to defend himself, get out of the way, or leave before he was hit in the head with an object, hard enough to create a visible wound. She hit him when he was by definition vulnerable. There can't be a single person on here who hasn't heard of someone being killed with one punch, let alone being hit with an object. He wasn't wrong, she very well could have killed him.
It genuinely makes me sad to read people saying "it was only a little cut, he didn't even go to hospital". It was a cut. She hit him hard enough to split the skin, and cause a wound. By her own admission, that is what she did. If you believe you can hit your sleeping partner in the head with a phone, hard enough to create an open wound, because you're "waving a phone around recklessly", I'm sorry.
The self-harming thing just makes it worse; it's such a classic manipulation tactic, and in DV cases is almost always designed to make the abused person too scared to call the police or seek help.
I think the decision to make this documentary was regrettable, to say the least. It's certainly not the image rehabilitation that was hoped for, I know that.
He was asleep. He had no opportunity to defend himself, get out of the way, or leave before he was hit in the head with an object, hard enough to create a visible wound. She hit him when he was by definition vulnerable. There can't be a single person on here who hasn't heard of someone being killed with one punch, let alone being hit with an object. He wasn't wrong, she very well could have killed him.
It genuinely makes me sad to read people saying "it was only a little cut, he didn't even go to hospital". It was a cut. She hit him hard enough to split the skin, and cause a wound. By her own admission, that is what she did. If you believe you can hit your sleeping partner in the head with a phone, hard enough to create an open wound, because you're "waving a phone around recklessly", I'm sorry.
The self-harming thing just makes it worse; it's such a classic manipulation tactic, and in DV cases is almost always designed to make the abused person too scared to call the police or seek help.
I think the decision to make this documentary was regrettable, to say the least. It's certainly not the image rehabilitation that was hoped for, I know that.
After watching the documentary I just feel conflicted on it all and like most things, none of it is black and white. Was she clearly troubled and needed real intervention to get her drinking and emotions in control? Yes. Should she have been punished for hitting Lewis? Yes. But I also do believe that the police wanted to make an example of her and the press hounded her in her final weeks too. The saddest part for me really is that once lockdown and covid hit it would have all gone away fast, the press would have moved on with a pandemic to focus on, the paps wouldn’t be able to be stationed outside her house and she would have had the chance to really step back and get the help she needed. Ultimately it’s incredibly tragic and I feel terribly for her mum, but she needs to find a way to move on and put this behind her for her sake and the sake of her remaining children.
ahtisyourself
VIP Member
I don’t find Lewis particularly likable or anything but he doesn’t have to be. He is guilty of being assaulted in his sleep and phoning the police in a moment of panic and concern and then regretting it and not cooperating. Why shouldn’t be come out now and have his say when he’s the one being abused and targeted and everyone is acting like Caroline was the victim and he the perp
A genuine question - do you believe someone’s life has to be at risk before they report violence to the police?
for example if someone punched me in the street I should not report it if they did not try to kill me explicitly?
ETA: I ask this because in DV cases it rarely begins with an outright murder attempt. It begins with a kick there or a slap there or a black eye explained away as “nothing” before ultimately things escalate. We have made strides in telling people to speak up and report what isn’t right in their relationships before it becomes a tragic statistic and comments like that set that work back years in my opinion.
I understand you are commenting on a specific set of people whose lives are public and the nuances of their specific situation, but saying things like “its not like she was holding a knife to his throat” is really quite a damaging opinion to hold (in my opinion).
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Jennytea
VIP Member
Can you imagine if it was a well known uk male presenter who this all happened to? Who was dating someone 13 years younger? Who had constantly dated people 10+ years younger (including a teenager)? They would say he was an abuser who prayed on people with less celeb status and money so he could take advantage and have an upper hand. People would never have blamed a girl in their 20’s for calling the police after being woken up and hit over the head. They would call the male manipulative and abusive if he self harmed whilst she called the police on him. If it was a male, Disney/Hulu also wouldn’t have ever considered doing a one sided documentary trying to downplay the violence and blame the media and police. Sorry but it all really baffles me. As a woman even I can see the double standards.
LadyWeatherwax
VIP Member
They'd only been together for 12 weeks. He hadn't been doing anything for months. Cheating on someone after 3 months is "don't let the door hit you on the way out" territory. If it winds you up to the point you're unable to stop yourself from beaning them while they sleep, you've got a problem that needs to be addressed.
Phil Anne Throw Pee
VIP Member
I sometimes compare Flack to Tara Palmer Tomkinson. Both troubled women with addiction issues, both had lots of boyfriends but never settled down and married so were kind of seen as 'tragic' figures for that reason. Neither of them especially talented but both likeable with quirky personalities and a love of the limelight. Both obviously died young and never seemed to find true contentment. I do think a lot of press regarding people like these 2 and many others is downright misogyny, I mean how on earth can an unmarried woman with no children be happy? (Deep eye roll).
Christine is in complete denial and I can understand why, but it's not healthy to keep eulogising her daughter who clearly had severe issues throughout her life.
Christine is in complete denial and I can understand why, but it's not healthy to keep eulogising her daughter who clearly had severe issues throughout her life.
Lady_Alice_Gray
Chatty Member
I wish I had had the courage to call 999 the first time my then husband assaulted me, maybe then I wouldn’t have endured 7 years of physical, mental, emotional and financial abuse and I wouldn’t be suffering now from PTSD. You should count yourself lucky not to have ever been in a situation where you fear for your life.
forgotmyacc
VIP Member
That's a very unfair thing to say.
He is not responsible for what happened. Lewis was the victim here.
Who knows what we would do in the heat of the moment? Maybe he had been telling his friend for a couple of months that she was unstable and the friend brushed it off.
Maybe he sent the picture as evidence like ... " look, look what she is capable of "
I highly doubt he sent it to his mate and said ... here sell this to the press.
We'll never know why. But to say he sealed her fate is unfair.
hermione granger
New member
Long time lurker, not very recent poster but I just wanted to share my own experiences here.
A few years ago, I managed to leave my abusive former partner. One of the things he did relatively often, was hit me when I was asleep. Its absolutely terrifying to wake up like that. Its disorienting, obviously painful and it also meant i could never relax when we were getting into bed, because I didnt know when he would do it again.
A slightly different situation, granted, but its been a few years now and my sleeps still messed up from that.
A few years ago, I managed to leave my abusive former partner. One of the things he did relatively often, was hit me when I was asleep. Its absolutely terrifying to wake up like that. Its disorienting, obviously painful and it also meant i could never relax when we were getting into bed, because I didnt know when he would do it again.
A slightly different situation, granted, but its been a few years now and my sleeps still messed up from that.
Boogs
VIP Member
Even if all of that is true it still doesn’t change the fact that she assaulted him. Victims don’t have to be likeable or nice people to be victims.
ahtisyourself
VIP Member
His character or lack of is completely irrelevant though. Like even if he is a total sleezebag and she had found out he was messaging countless women sending dick pics galore, an assault still took place and he still had every right to phone the police that night as she was very clearly out of control. I’m not sure what it is about this that people aren’t grasping? He could be the biggest walking ick man child known to man, and he was still assaulted in his sleep. Caroline’s mother, as much as she has researched for the truth, wasn’t there that night and isn’t privy to the bodycam footage that would no doubt have assisted the CPS in their decision to press charges. Not only did an assault take place but she was clearly out of control self harming, resisting arrest and flipping tables and being completely irate and aggressive. It wasn’t just the little light brush with the phone that her mother is painting it to be.
Should the police have dropped the charges on the basis that Lewis was apparently texting another woman and is a bit of a sleaze? No, because in the case of an assault taking place, that is irrelevant. Should they now come out and say they made a mistake and shouldn’t have pursued because he moved on 6 months later with another woman and was photographed with his hand on her arse? No, because again in the context of the assault that took place that night, it’s irrelevant.
Honestly this rewriting of it all does nothing only hurt more people and bring it all to the surface again. I don’t think Caroline was the type of person who would still want people to be talking and dissecting every minute detail of the worst night of her life six years later, but yet her mother has made it happen.
Should the police have dropped the charges on the basis that Lewis was apparently texting another woman and is a bit of a sleaze? No, because in the case of an assault taking place, that is irrelevant. Should they now come out and say they made a mistake and shouldn’t have pursued because he moved on 6 months later with another woman and was photographed with his hand on her arse? No, because again in the context of the assault that took place that night, it’s irrelevant.
Honestly this rewriting of it all does nothing only hurt more people and bring it all to the surface again. I don’t think Caroline was the type of person who would still want people to be talking and dissecting every minute detail of the worst night of her life six years later, but yet her mother has made it happen.
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Jennytea
VIP Member
I’ve just watched the documentary and even with how one sided they’ve tried to make it I’m still really struggling to see how they thought it was a good idea to make it and how they’re still blaming the police. It’s confirmed over and over Caroline had mental health problems her whole life and self harmed through out her life too. She had volatile relationships previously with domestic violence allegations and dated men way younger than her which was a red flag in itself (including a teenager when she was in her 30’s). The police and CPS seemed to act appropriately. I hate how everyone they have talk on the documentary completely downplay the issues of domestic violence and how ignorant they are to the procedures officers and the CPS have to follow. Anyone who has an understanding of DV situations know how many victims try and drop charges and how her breaking bail conditions to send him messages was a major red flag too and could be seen as manipulation. It’s a sad situation but I don’t feel the police are to blame for her taking her life and it’s a lot to be putting on officers who were literally doing their job. She is painted as an angel when she clearly was very troubled and problematic. I feel sorry for the pain her mum has gone through but I think she is very naive and wants someone to blame.
imagine if the roles had been reversed. Everyone saying “it wasn’t a lamp!”, no it was her phone and he didn’t require medical help but why are people minimising what is still an assault
Badirene
VIP Member
It's abuser 101, do what I want or I'll end my life.
If it was Charles Flack with a history of having relationships with a string of younger partners (including a literal teenager) that was charged with hitting a sleeping partner over the head, flipping a table while in police custody and having to be restrained we would be having domestic abuse organisations making statements about coercive control, how abusers use their mental health to control partners and how to spot the signs of abusive relationships in family and friends and how to get help. Instead we have #bekind and the actual people that offered support being blamed in the press by an enabling mother that has excuses for days.
I write all this as someone with Complex PTSD from an abusive background. My mental health is my responsibility, it's not up to everyone else to prop me up while I refuse real help.