I do care, consent is not transferable.
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Agreed, I feel a bit responsible for this post taking this turn as I made a point that her trans identity must’ve had an impact on her mental health, but only because her Mum had said it hadn’t. This is one of the most disturbing cases I have ever heard and my heart goes out to Brianna’s family.
Genitals are just one aspect of the larger thing some of us recognise as 'biological sex'.
A trans woman is not different from a woman (to you, a 'cis woman') depending on whether 'she' has retained 'her' penis.
Size, build, social experience, privilege - all of these things and many more come down to whether someone is born male or female.
By trivialising it down to 'whether someone has a penis' you're offering a reductive argument that I don't think ... stands up.
I think you'd have known if there was a trans woman in the hospital ward with you, whether you like to act as if you wouldn't care, or not. Whether a person is male or female is almost always obvious to everyone in a real life setting, whatever their beliefs and performances.
I know you won't take any of this on board, but I think it's still important for people to tell the truth.
No need to feel responsible! It’s a topic that naturally causes some heated debate because of people’s strong opinions.
For me the turning point of the conversation was actually criticism of Esther’s parenting in how she supported her daughter as well as people trying to pass off their opinions on gender dysphoria as fact. It all got a bit disrespectful IMO. Nothing wrong with a bit of healthy debate as long as we all remember a young life has been snuffed out under horrific circumstances
Well, considering children spend 30+ hours per week at school and don’t just have feelings at home I would have thought something would have been offered at school to support them. Having your school friend murdered by another school pupil isn’t really a normal thing for a child to go through. Even something like some activity sessions together to boost morale. Idk I was under the impression schools have a duty of care.
Well, just because you don't mind 'trans women' ie men in your safe spaces doesn't give you the right to speak for other women.
When I was admitted to hospital for an unplanned operation following an ectopic pregnancy I was glad there were no men there - blood, pain, tears, you get the picture.
It is not just about what you want, that doesn't give you the right to choose for all women.
I think you link the new thread in this one, then report the comment and ask a mod to close it.
Oftentimes “supportive care” is synonymous with affirmative care and TRAs are known for their no debate stance. So if this care is delivered by agencies like Tavistock the young person won’t be encouraged to question themself and what is underlying their unease. I think the point you’re maybe not considering is that with a lot of young people with gender dysphoria they are looking to feel at ease with themselves because they are unhappy and feel “wrong” in themselves. Examples could be an effeminate boy, a butch girl, someone with autism- not easily identifying with so-called societal norms. There is nothing “wrong” with them, they just haven’t found their niche yet. If they had proper supportive care ie addressing what is making them feel so unhappy with themselves, they would no longer feel the need to access hormones, surgery, irreversibly damaging “treatments”. They don’t need to become someone else to be happy, but they can’t yet see that and trans as in social transition is a quick fix. Affirmation is so easy to find in online communities and all of a sudden there are lots of people welcoming them and encouraging them to become their “authentic self”. They look, act, are different but if the bad feelings inside aren’t fixed then trans is just a sticking plaster and it will all resurface down the line. By which time their body might be damaged beyond repair.Quite agree on support, I’ve stressed that several times now. Some people see ‘support’ and assume that means blindly affirming. All I ever said by support was that I would not push my views on the child.
For others on here it sound like their view of support is telling their child there is no such thing as being born into the wrong body and to catch themselves on.
All I’ve said is to me, there’s a danger there in damaging that child’s confidence in you as a parent and encouraging them not be open and communicative
And if after years of support from doctors and counsellors, your child still felt the same way and medical professionals confirmed the child’s gender identity does not match their biological sex- then what? Continue not to affirm their ‘delusions?’
The issue for me here is people’s opinions on gender identity is only that- their opinion. They can feel free to believe what they want and call it a mental illness, but take a wee look at the NHS website on the issue. I’ll take my learning and knowledge on the matter from the medical professional community and not from Brenda on tattle who got her degree from the ‘school of hard knocks’ or the ‘university of life’
You have worded what I was trying to express yesterday perfectly. I totally agree many teens giving themselves a ‘ label’ now are very likely to grow out of it, for the vast majority it’s a period of self exploration and trying to find their niche, as you put it.
And I think there is an absolutely massive duty of care on both parents, who if a child expresses dysphoria with their gender, that they should absolutely not rush to take any immediate action in terms of treatments. And of course a duty of care on the part of the medical community, not to rush to prescribe any such treatments or offer an immediate diagnosis. Proper support from the parents as well as counselling is needed.
A point I was trying to make was that, as a parent I don’t feel a child facing such confusion will be helped by a parent saying ‘there’s no such thing as XYZ and dismissing their concerns in that moment. That could be massively damaging to the relationship and the next time the child feels lost or confused they may not then approach their parent for support.
I suppose where I differ in my beliefs from some people is that I do believe SOME children’s feelings of gender dysphoria are not related to any other underlying reason.
I did not mean to give the impression in any way that any child who expresses feeling dysphoria around their gender should be pushed towards ‘treatment’ I do not advocate that at all.
For anyone that does go on to receive hormone treatment, this should only be after a very long, careful and thoughtful process with a large number of professionals, in order to ensure as far as is possible that they understand the consequences and that they are sure that it is what they want and will make them happy and that it is not a sticking plaster for any other issue.
I agree the online community can be dangerous in this sense. Pro anorexia sites, sites offering advice on how to self harm all need to be clamped down on and closed but that’s basically impossible as they will always find a way. It’s terrifying.
Thanks for your thoughtful input- if that sounds sarcastic it absolutely isn’t!
precisely that’s why I said speak for yourself. I don’t speak for you, you don’t speak for me. End of.
This just came up in my inbox. I just cannot see mobile phone companies implementing anything like this
Hang on, didn't Brianna have no friends?Briannas school friends have also had such a raw deal. This could be their first experience of loss and grief and for it to be in these circumstances. Poor kids
Changing the narrative a bit here.
Friends or not, the death of one of your schoolmates, especially in such a violent manner is disturbing and extremely difficult to come to terms with.
New thread (I hope!)
I tell the truth.
Umm okay?
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