Afghanistan

[Underthetabletop]

. Pen will be the most loved and the most hated person.

That is the most clear line out of all of this debate.
We all have our own views on handling. I work with people who have people’s lives in their hands daily that don’t start being abusive, but at the same time, who knows what we would do? I’m sure some of the people egging things on would be the same to workers in supermarkets if they don’t have the cheese in they want. But I’m sure some just wanted him to get the animals back.
The one thing it does show though is how social media affects our world and also doesn’t- look at all the young lasses cheering mollymae on for pretending to design clothes. It’s not an and or situation, but for all the celebs all did BLM and some did the Sarah Everett Vigil stuff, there are hardly any pushing for support to young men and women like them trapped abroad, because our world has become so small that it doesn’t even comprehend to them that this is happening. And if they had used the power they have to put pressure on for funding for more planes, charities, donations etc, who knows were we would be. But they won’t because it doesn’t affect them- the above issues anyone could call them out on- when you are in a sewer, telling say kylie Jenner ‘what about me’ is last on the list.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

Frankly after all the tit Pen has endured who can be surprised that he lost it finally? Even the most calm person would have been driven insane by all the paperwork insisted upon to get people OUT of there

 

[Yel]

I don't think many hate pen.

In isolation what he's done is a good thing.

But as it's been explained countless times here, with such limited resources that's had a knock on effect.

Thanks again blue tickers and Twitter mobs.

 

[WhatwouldPrinnyDo]

Reading on the MSN page they implied that he was alone on that flight, in which case WHY? Pen had already said he would absolutely take everyone he could safely so why did he depart alone if that really is the truth? That could have been maybe 250 less people left in that hellhole :

Have a feeling that the offer to take more evacuees on his plane was just an effort to get support and to spin some positive PR, as I’m sure the military have very well established guidelines for processing evacuees, which doesn’t involve them jumping into just any old plane flying into any random country on a random route. And Pen, the ex-military guru, would have known this.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

Have a feeling that the offer to take more evacuees on his plane was just an effort to get support and to spin some positive PR, as I’m sure the military have very well established guidelines for processing evacuees, which doesn’t involve them jumping into just any old plane flying into any random country on a random route. And Pen, the ex-military guru, would have known this.

This is not the Miltary's fault - this is the govt's doing entirely

 

[What?]

I haven't found Pen abusive, I heard desperation and passion in his voice.

I agree with a previous poster who said the leaking of that audio is suspicious.
Watching Sky news earlier and Anne Diamond told viewers he left on a military plane which is untrue, nobody bothered to correct her either.

 

[Merpedy]

This is not the Miltary's fault - this is the govt's doing entirely

Plus if he really was the last civilian to leave (presumably British) it’s nothing he could have done anyway. Where is he meant to grab extra people from all of the sudden?

Same with documents. It’s literally out of his control and he’s already pushing his luck with getting permission to land a chartered plane

I haven't found Pen abusive, I heard desperation and passion in his voice.

I agree with a previous poster who said the leaking of that audio is suspicious.
Watching Sky news earlier and Anne Diamond told viewers he left on a military plane which is untrue, nobody bothered to correct her either.

Apparently Wallace has been on another rant on Twitter too. I’m going to guess he will be on the news again complaining too. Whether Pen in wrong or right, the guy isn’t even there to defend himself at the moment and generally for the majority of this, though hopefully he will be able to say something today

Its like watching the government trying to cancel someone irl… it’s weird and frankly unprofessional

 

[kev1974]

Frankly after all the tit Pen has endured who can be surprised that he lost it finally? Even the most calm person would have been driven insane by all the paperwork insisted upon to get people OUT of there

Do you just want random Taliban and Isis-K people just flown straight in to Brize Norton then? Of course there's paperwork checks! And it has to be for everyone, even the ones that have a twitter army.

Anyway, stepping away from Paul Farthing for a second. These pictures of bars in the US setting out 13 pints for their fallen soldiers made me sad.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

Do you just want random Taliban and Isis-K people just flown straight in to Brize Norton then? Of course there's paperwork checks! And it has to be for everyone, even the ones that have a twitter army.

Anyway, stepping away from Paul Farthing for a second. These pictures of bars in the US setting out 13 pints for their fallen soldiers made me sad.



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Its tragic. And its yet another reason why Pen could not be left behind - he is ex-serving military - his serving colleagues would never sanction leaving behind one of their own would they?

 

[Underthetabletop]

I haven't found Pen abusive, I heard desperation and passion in his voice.

I agree with a previous poster who said the leaking of that audio is suspicious.
Watching Sky news earlier and Anne Diamond told viewers he left on a military plane which is untrue, nobody bothered to correct her either.

But again, why should people always have to correct her, people were quick enough to spin things about the government to stir things up. I’m not the biggest fan of this gov, many mistakes have been made, but there have been people even on here saying that ministers should be sacked, the same ministers who have saved nearly 15,000 people. People who im sure couldn’t run an operation like this themselves…… And I think people need to praise the fact that actually, the gov saved a tit load of people, despite their views. And this is despite being cut out of the loop by the us (as reported by an itv correspondent, not the gov themselves)

also, https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...ee-climb-barbed-wire-fence-Kabul-airport.html
This is bloody amazing.

Its tragic. And its yet another reason why Pen could not be left behind - he is ex-serving military - his serving colleagues would never sanction leaving behind one of their own would they?

We HAVE left a former serviceman behind, there’s one I mentioned last night. Got about 60 women out and now he’s stuck there!!! With his elderly mother…. We left an elderly British woman there which disturbs me tbh, but they didn’t get their voices heard. And I’m assuming based on her sons photo she is a white woman, she has no chance does she. and there’s probably more.

 

[Rita Chevrolet]

But again, why should people always have to correct her, people were quick enough to spin things about the government to stir things up. I’m not the biggest fan of this gov, many mistakes have been made, but there have been people even on here saying that ministers should be sacked, the same ministers who have saved nearly 15,000 people. People who im sure couldn’t run an operation like this themselves…… And I think people need to praise the fact that actually, the gov saved a tit load of people, despite their views. And this is despite being cut out of the loop by the us (as reported by an itv correspondent, not the gov themselves)

also, https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...ee-climb-barbed-wire-fence-Kabul-airport.html
This is bloody amazing.


We HAVE left a former serviceman behind, there’s one I mentioned last night. Got about 60 women out and now he’s stuck there!!! With his elderly mother…. We left an elderly British woman there which disturbs me tbh, but they didn’t get their voices heard. And I’m assuming based on her sons photo she is a white woman, she has no chance does she. and there’s probably more.

Nothing was ever going to be perfect - we have to be grateful that so many DID get out and hope that the taliban lot are going to be amenable to releasing the rest. They after all are fighting the isis thugs themselves so may well be grateful for assistance to rid themelves of that cancer lurking in their society.

 

[Underthetabletop]

Nothing was ever going to be perfect - we have to be grateful that so many DID get out and hope that the taliban lot are going to be amenable to releasing the rest. They after all are fighting the isis thugs themselves so may well be grateful for assistance to rid themelves of that cancer lurking in their society.

From what I’ve read though, we’re not planning to be working with them, we are begging for release of the rest and that’s it. The Taliban are aligned with with AlQuaeda, so I doubt any western nation will align themselves to them. Russia and China are in there for the money, they can help them sort it, I’m sure they will get on amazingly discussing human rights.
And I’m going to be honest, I wouldn’t want our government to support them with isis. The world hasn’t fully left and they are allegedly at it

 

[jaymie]

I haven't found Pen abusive, I heard desperation and passion in his voice.

I agree with a previous poster who said the leaking of that audio is suspicious.
Watching Sky news earlier and Anne Diamond told viewers he left on a military plane which is untrue, nobody bothered to correct her either.

My husband said the same thing, he has 80 lives in his hand, and things changed every minute. I sense despair in his voice

Also, the MOD needs to answer how had the voice recording/ phone call leaked? I feels to me like a PR stun, either way this is not a priority for now but it is deeply unprofessional.

 

[thegirlscout]

Plus if he really was the last civilian to leave (presumably British) it’s nothing he could have done anyway. Where is he meant to grab extra people from all of the sudden?

Same with documents. It’s literally out of his control and he’s already pushing his luck with getting permission to land a chartered plane



Apparently Wallace has been on another rant on Twitter too. I’m going to guess he will be on the news again complaining too. Whether Pen in wrong or right, the guy isn’t even there to defend himself at the moment and generally for the majority of this, though hopefully he will be able to say something today

Its like watching the government trying to cancel someone irl… it’s weird and frankly unprofessional

The government ministers who are personally talking about Pen on Twitter is unprofessional and making me a bit uneasy. Yes they may not agree with his behaviour but singling him out feels wrong.

 

[emm]

My husband said the same thing, he has 80 lives in his hand, and things changed every minute. I sense despair in his voice

Also, the MOD needs to answer how had the voice recording/ phone call leaked? I feels to me like a PR stun, either way this is not a priority for now but it is deeply unprofessional.

I agree, I am not a naturally confrontational person, but in his situation I would have been the same

 

[Merpedy]

Also, the MOD needs to answer how had the voice recording/ phone call leaked? I feels to me like a PR stun, either way this is not a priority for now but it is deeply unprofessional.

I feel like the whole situation is really unprofessional. We have the MoD, Wallace and another MP (maybe a few?) attacking this guy very publicly and I don't think I remember seeing this happen before?

Obviously, MPs tend to attack pressure groups and the media pick up on it but the good majority of the people in those groups remain unnamed, and even the organisers don't seem to be personally targeted like Pen has been. The target is just basically the group as a whole. Could argue it's still not very professional, but the attacks don't even seem to be that personal most of the time either? Like this is just on another level

I was writing this as @thegirlscout replied, in complete agreement with both of you basically



Also possibly good news! It also sounds like everything worked very well on the ground there so hopefully it continues

 

[Underthetabletop]

Tbh, I think the whole thing just needs to stop now, the ark will be home soon and the mudslinging should just vanish. Neither side did it well and it just divided people. I know I eyerolled and muttered a few times at comments here and I wasn’t emotionally or physically invested as a lot were on Instagram (even though I love a good debate)

Now we need to focus on the people here with nothing (Pens already heading off to Oslo it seems, and the soldiers/diplomats will be heading back to families, so they are all sorted), The people that are still there, the dual threat we now face from both groups, and actually the realisation that America isn’t the ally we thought, right at the time that Europe is saying ‘you brexited, you crack on’ and we have our Pritti already saying other countries need to help out

 

[Meangirl815]

I had many thoughts on the Pen situation but didn't know how to verbalise any of them.

Anyway. My thoughts are on those who were injured in the blast the other day and in hospital. Are they now stuck there?

As a side note my husband is convinced Biden wants to move his fight elsewhere. He's adamant it's only a matter of time before troops will be sent to the next target which he believes will be Iran.

 

[freda19]

Its tragic. And its yet another reason why Pen could not be left behind - he is ex-serving military - his serving colleagues would never sanction leaving behind one of their own would they?

Nobody wanted him left behind and clearly all his own papers were in order or he wouldn't have been given all the excessive help he got.
Just a piity he didn't organise his afghan workers papers as meticulously as his own and those of the animals.
I'm sure many of the less animal obsessed soldiers were ashamed wasting time loading animals while humans were literally crying and begging for their lives.

The government ministers who are personally talking about Pen on Twitter is unprofessional and making me a bit uneasy. Yes they may not agree with his behaviour but singling him out feels wrong.

He put himself front and centre with his big mouth so that seems logical.

 

[Merpedy]

As a side note my husband is convinced Biden wants to move his fight elsewhere. He's adamant it's only a matter of time before troops will be sent to the next target which he believes will be Iran.

I wonder if it may be something Asia focused, especially with the Harris trip there to reassure their allies. Don't think they'll be invading China (bit stupid and all) but I could see them trying to help out countries that China seems to be actively annoying + the South China Sea stuff

Though from a simple Google search, it seems that Iran appears to be trying to make nuclear weapons again and that's just one hell of an easy war to justify if they want it, plus it's probably a lot less risky than annoying China a bit more actively

Honestly no doubt they will just find another place to send troops to though, hopefully no one follows them