Why? This trial was due to finish ages ago, they may have booked holidays six months in advance of knowing anything about having to do jury duty. I wouldn’t be giving up time with my family (which I may have struggled to afford, coordinate diaries with people etc)
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The podcast released today said the pause is because 2 of the jurors have commitments. Frustrating, but I guess a pause is better than losing 2 jurors at this stage.
It just seems such an insult to the baby at the heart of all this 
My comment objecting to absence because of a pre-booked holiday (if in fact this is the case?) was mainly because this trial is unfinished business and surely the jury need to prioritise reaching a verdict for Victoria's sake? Jury service obligations should come first in my opinion. Holidays can be rebooked but a baby's life can't.
If it's planned surgery then that's a different matter but that would have been known in advance.
If it's planned surgery then that's a different matter but that would have been known in advance.
The holiday was probably known in advance too, the trial was meant to finish in March. The court should have given a more realistic time frame for the trial and then they’d have excluded people with commitments in May. People can’t put their lives on hold infinitely for the trial, especially not when several of the delay days appeared to be down to the judge having other commitments! They should schedule time more accurately and make sure they assign a judge who isn’t going to have to only be able to turn up at 1/2pm some days.
This is a daft comment. The jury can't just put their life on hold. I wouldn't be giving up my holiday because the court cannot coordinate itself. The court system is inefficient at best. Whilst you might not think a holiday is important it could be someone's last holiday with a family member. Or someone's first holiday with their children. A wedding. Anything.
You don’t get a refund on your holiday if you do jury service.
The judicial system can’t pay people to not go on holiday.
Many can only take holiday when schools allow, or for people in manufacturing it’s restricted to the shutdown weeks which are mandated by the company.
We all want justice for Victoria.
We all want them both to be found guilty.
But it’s in no way the jury’s fault that this trial has run over by (so far) 9 weeks.
We don’t even know if it is holiday. It could be caring responsibilities or a medical treatment or something absolutely essential which is - to that person - a higher priority than making the trial a few days shorter.
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If a juror was expected to prioritise this trial over everything else, that juror may well no longer be able to be impartial, rational or take the time needed to do it properly and fairly.
If I was made to cancel a holiday (or any number of other things) I might feel really upset, annoyed, furious, and that would mean I couldn’t continue the deliberations in the way I should.
This is going to sound really blunt but I can’t sugar coat it.
The baby cannot be brought back to life. She is dead. Nothing can change that.
What’s important is having a fair trial with an impartial jury, led by the facts not their feelings.
(Also if they are found innocent they’ll have had extra long on remand away from each other)
The judicial system can’t pay people to not go on holiday.
Many can only take holiday when schools allow, or for people in manufacturing it’s restricted to the shutdown weeks which are mandated by the company.
We all want justice for Victoria.
We all want them both to be found guilty.
But it’s in no way the jury’s fault that this trial has run over by (so far) 9 weeks.
We don’t even know if it is holiday. It could be caring responsibilities or a medical treatment or something absolutely essential which is - to that person - a higher priority than making the trial a few days shorter.
---
If a juror was expected to prioritise this trial over everything else, that juror may well no longer be able to be impartial, rational or take the time needed to do it properly and fairly.
If I was made to cancel a holiday (or any number of other things) I might feel really upset, annoyed, furious, and that would mean I couldn’t continue the deliberations in the way I should.
This is going to sound really blunt but I can’t sugar coat it.
The baby cannot be brought back to life. She is dead. Nothing can change that.
What’s important is having a fair trial with an impartial jury, led by the facts not their feelings.
(Also if they are found innocent they’ll have had extra long on remand away from each other)
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What happens with work when you're on jury service? Do you get paid your usual salary from your employer or is it at their discretion? I think jurors get paid expenses don't they - would that include childcare?
Just googled it. £64 per day would not cover my expenses if my employer wasn't paying me. I would be raging at having to use my savings to cover my mortgage for an overrun trial.
Just googled it. £64 per day would not cover my expenses if my employer wasn't paying me. I would be raging at having to use my savings to cover my mortgage for an overrun trial.
Me too. To be honest the jurors have given more than enough to the trial and Baby Victoria to stick it out this far, expecting them to sacrifice holidays that were likely booked before they even knew they were going to be part of this trial would almost certainly be a step too far and they’d walk.
A lot of people would have walked already tbh. All they’d have to do is go to the GP and say the trial was having a negative effect on their MH and that the financial stress on top was pushing them over the edge and they’d get a doctors note easily. The jury have been incredibly patient especially as, unlike the Letby case, it seems a lot of the delays here were due to the judge and council.
I think it's at their discretion, but most employers pay people as normal. At least that's what has happened when colleagues have done jury service at a couple of places I've worked. Even when someone was on a fraud trial that lasted a few months.
Not all do this though - when I was called for jury service my ex-employer told me I'd have to show them how much of the daily allowance I'd claimed and they'd deduct it from my wages. Luckily it was cancelled, as I was dreading having to figure it all out.
I agree but I think that they have to cover all bases so that they can’t claim any unfairness or unlawful behaviourIt just seems such an insult to the baby at the heart of all this
I lay the blame with the court. This was always a high profile case, which was going to involve madness from the defendants. They totally underestimated how long it would take. The jury were asking for longer days last week, I’m sure they’re frustrated too. Although they’ve got two weeks “off” now.
If your employer can’t or won’t pay your wages, that would be grounds to excuse yourself, lots of self-employed people do this, it’s economically unviable.
If your employer can’t or won’t pay your wages, that would be grounds to excuse yourself, lots of self-employed people do this, it’s economically unviable.
I feel sorry for the juror if it’s a holiday. I can’t imagine they’d be able to fully relax and enjoy themselves, knowing what they have to come back to
I do hope that the judge makes a point of saying the jury won't ever have to sit a jury again- I know they can do this.
Considering the photos and evidence theyve seen and heard and the prolonged events I'd say its reasonable to grant them that
Considering the photos and evidence theyve seen and heard and the prolonged events I'd say its reasonable to grant them that
Me too. I know in the LL case there were lots of issues with jurors which muddied it a bit but in this case it really seems like the jury were there and willing and the vast majority of the delays were nothing to do with them - it was almost all they couldn’t present the defendant, there was a fire, they started late because the judge was on a different case, legal discussions etc.
Mostly because CM wouldn’t agree the agreed facts!
Maybe its gone over the target length so long due to Connies inability to answer a question without waffling each response with twenty odd minutes of self righteous crap. Noone predicted that.
The last minute substitution of her KC won't have helped either.