Ukraine Russia War #15

[Doctor_Wibble]

sky news liveblog Donald Trump's 28-point peace plan for Ukraine - in full

Donald Trump's plan?

NOELREPORTS (@noelreports.com)

No shock here: The Guardian notes several phrases in the U.S. peace proposal to Ukraine appear to be directly translated from Russian. One standout is the line “It is expected that Russia will not invade neighboring countries,” a clunky English phrasing mirroring the Russian “ожидается.”

bsky.app

... yet somehow parts translated from Russian? Does Trump speak Russian? No? So whose plan is it then?
OK so that's a rhetorical question, my opinion of 'Kremlin demand for surrender' seems to be promoted from 'cynical' to 'accurate' with a footnote that there's a couple of additions to make it look like there was actually some US input somewhere.

 

[annanuttall]

PLease Please Zelensky dont agree to the deal with the devils.

 

[monga]

 

[monga]

 

[Warpaint]

It's always the same with this. Big Don gives Ukraine a certain amount of time to agree with something, they don't, then nothing happens.

 

[monga]

We’ll know on Thursday

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

It's always the same with this. Big Don gives Ukraine a certain amount of time to agree with something, they don't, then nothing happens.

I'm fairly sure it's Russia that usually refuses to agree anything? And if they do it's "yes but" and never go beyond that, even with the attempted ceasefires that Ukraine agreed to but which Russia failed to honour.

Leavitt's relayed remarks from Trump the other day made it pretty clear that he was back on the Russian side again, 'frustrated with both sides' as though Ukraine somehow shares equal blame for defending itself.

This latest though is not just 'something', it's a Trump endorsed master plan - but it's hugely favourable to Russia with a ridiculously short deadline and contains a number of things that would be red lines for any country.
Russia wants Ukraine to agree to it first and will hold back from any sign of agreement while it 'clarifies details' like always.

What makes this really different though is that the threat tied to the deadline is squarely aimed at Ukraine not Russia - being one over arms sales and provision of intelligence.

 

[monga]

Surely nothing compares to the love of one’s country

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Surely nothing compares to the love of one’s country

TBH the 'keeping the US as an ally' is something that is becoming increasingly difficult over time and I believe there may be some emergency delegations heading over to the Whitehouse as Trump needs de-programming yet again after the latest round of instructive blessings from Putin as relayed to him by the gopher Witkoff.

Trump's plan is full of tit and the short deadline is stupid. I could add that Trump is a bleep but since he's blackmailing an entire country with this so-called 'plan' he has pretty much re-announced that to the world already.

 

[monga]

 

[monga]

TBH the 'keeping the US as an ally' is something that is becoming increasingly difficult over time and I believe there may be some emergency delegations heading over to the Whitehouse as Trump needs de-programming yet again after the latest round of instructive blessings from Putin as relayed to him by the gopher Witkoff.

Trump's plan is full of tit and the short deadline is stupid. I could add that Trump is a bleep but since he's blackmailing an entire country with this so-called 'plan' he has pretty much re-announced that to the world already.

Maybe we need a world war to rid us of the imbeciles controlling it.

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

As noted in various places and threads and duly pinched ... the plan is being pulled apart, denied, claimed, rejected by the dog for failing the sniff test...




No no we definitely wrote it ourselves, honest guv!

US insists it authored Ukraine plan after claims of Russian 'wish list'

A group of US lawmakers said the secretary of state told them the draft did not reflect Washington's position. Marco Rubio has distanced himself from those claims.

www.bbc.co.uk

though that comes so shortly after this that one wonders if maybe someone's printing random edits of russian dictated stuff and seeing who picks up what




Putin - per remarks/q&a Kremlin : Meeting with permanent members of the Security Council November 21, 2025 20:30 - says he's had a copy 'through existing channels' but there's not been any discussion on it and it's just a re-hash of what turned up after Alaska.

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Hurrah the US president has posted a clear and balanced statement to help everyone with the decision process.
safely visible at trumps truth

 

[Bobby Chariot]

Hurrah the US president has posted a clear and balanced statement to help everyone with the decision process.
safely visible at trumps truth

View attachment 3795241

He's an unhinged idiot.

 

[annanuttall]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...zero-gratitude-peace-plan-international-talks

European countries propose radically different Ukraine peace plan to US

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

https://www.archive.is/https://www....zero-gratitude-peace-plan-international-talks

European countries propose radically different Ukraine peace plan to US

You mean one that might actually have a chance of not being ridiculed by everybody on the entire planet, that's definitely progress!
Has anyone explained yet the circumstances around the creation of the first one? Not just the lack of anyone on the US side with any actual knowledge but also the big WTF of Jared Kushner...?


This looks like the full list

MAKS 26 👀🇺🇦 (@maks23.bsky.social)

❗️🇪🇺🇺🇦 The full text of the EU plan to end the war in Ukraine is published by The Telegraph

bsky.app

Though I do think Russia might have a couple of items on there that they would wish to address...

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

Rubio said yesterday they had been working on the 28-point plan for three weeks which cannot be for real - it was so monumentally deficient that 'working on' can surely only translate to 'sat untouched on the desk'.

But the first (or possibly only?) version of it was the result of a meeting between "Kirill Dmitriev, a Russian envoy who is under U.S. sanctions" and "special envoy Steve Witkoff, President Donald Trump’s son-in-law Jared Kushner" which took place in Miami at the end of October.

Reuters: Trump officials' meeting with Russian in Miami spurs questions about Ukraine proposal

A close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, Dmitriev has taken a leading role in talks with the U.S. about the war and has met with Witkoff several times this year. The Trump administration issued a special waiver to allow his entry, a senior U.S. official told Reuters.

Many senior officials inside the State Department and on the National Security Council were not briefed

Special Envoy for Ukraine Keith Kellogg, who had been working with the Ukrainians on negotiating an end to the war [...] was also cut out of the talks

And still a bit unclear about the claimed involvement of 'both sides' that Rubio mentioned - unless he meant the US and Russia only, which TBH wouldn't be that much of a surprise.

 

[Bobby Chariot]

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

View attachment 3797303
View attachment 3797304

Unfortunately comes as no surprise, as it would have involved bothering to read something.

And yet another large attack wave overnight:

Ukrainian Air Defence shot down: 438/464 strike UAVs; 1/4 aeroballistic missiles Kh-47M2 "Kinzhal"; 5/7 Iskander-K cruise missiles; 5/8 Kalibr cruise missiles; 3/3 Iskander-M ballistic missiles.

The Ukrainian Review (@theukrainianreview.bsky.social)

🙏 Zelensky: Our rescuers are currently working in Kyiv at the sites of Russian strikes. The main Russian strike at night was on the capital and the region, and there is a lot of damage to residential buildings and civilian infrastructure in the city.

bsky.app

And fallout, uncertain at this point whether it's gaps in defence, scrambled navigation or deliberate targeting.

MAKS 26 👀🇺🇦 (@maks23.bsky.social)

🇲🇩🇷🇴 In the morning, Russian drones flew into the airspace of Moldova and Romania. ✈️ Two German Eurofighter Typhoon fighter jets took off. At 07:37, two F-16 fighter jets took off to respond to the situation.

bsky.app

 

[Doctor_Wibble]

And a footnote to the above, the overnight attacks being barely a day after the great dealmaker himself posted this

[ trumpstruth.org/statuses/33991 ]

And the Kremlin speaks at odd with reality

Russia interested in achieving its goals through talks — Kremlin

Dmitry Peskov emphasized that Russia’s position has not changed and has been repeatedly confirmed by Russian President Vladimir Putin

tass.com

But then what else is new.

And again TASS, ever the purveyor of truths spoken by the Russian agencies

Efforts to discredit Trump, boost Britain in Ukraine conflict: SVR statements

The Russian Foreign Intelligence Service is confident that Britain is seeking to prolong the conflict in Ukraine to protect its own economy from collapse

tass.com

I don't think anyone is expecting Russia to sign anything, but if Ukraine goes along with all the steps it stays on the right side of 'the deal' and the message might finally sink in to Trump's brain that Putin has been playing him the whole time.