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Eeyore147

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If they manage to get the inflation pay rise they are after I can see many more industries going on strike. I appreciate that they have poor pay conditions but so do many many more industries! I can’t remember the last time my husband got a pay rise. Can you imagine if the local NHS trust went on strike? Lives would be lost, but nurses are literally on there arses, long hours, understaffed, poor wages, low morale. Teachers? Social Care? Paramedics?
 
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Thanks @CrackingOwlSanctuary that was actually really helpful. I really wish that there had been better communications about the strikes, because I don't think the media coverage has been that helpful. One thing that isn't clear (or maybe I haven't read the right stuff) is are more strikes on the horizon?
ASLEF (the train drivers union) and TSSA (the office based/management union) are currently balloting for strike with a deadline of early July so there could be more strikes with even less of a service running next month. Currently they can plan to run some services as drivers are still in but once they are out (and the people coordinating the service are out) then it's just nothing running at all.
 
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Yel

Chatty Member
Moderator
I'm not sure I buy the not safe without guards argument.

Some companies got rid of them years ago and it's made little difference.

Many of the trains here are absolutely huge with 12+ carriages so I don't think one guard would make much difference.
 
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PinkandTwinkly

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I know three people whom work on the railways for train operating companies.

None are contracted to work on a Sunday. If they choose to, it is voluntary and classed as overtime, for which they are paid the time and a quarter per hour.
The TOC me and OH work for.

Sundays are inside are working week. No way of getting out without leave and no pay enhancement

Thats what makes this strike so confusing to understand, everyone involved has such different T&Cs
 
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Pushyplumb

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I think the problem is that these rail strikes don't seem to be achieving anything. I'm not sure what the alternative actually is though
The ones suffering are the restaurants, theatres, tourist attractions and the poor souls who have to struggle getting into work. I've stopped making plans in London because you just don't know when a strick will be called.
 
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PinkandTwinkly

VIP Member
The railway havent had a pay rise in nearly four years now I think? There are plenty of unionised workplaces in other UK industries that have already been offered and accepted far higher pay rises with no strings.
Yep July 2019 was last raise so 3.5 years

5% for 22 (with backdated pay) and 4% for 23 raise (comes July )
Works out a 9.2 over the 2 years (on my 40k) which it's below the inflation rise in that time

Im happy ours has been agreed, but it's still below inflation and comes with some "restructuring" to pay for it
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And before anyone says they'd be happy with 40k, remember it's not for a nice 37hr a week 9-5 Monday to Friday day role.

We work 364 days a year, 264 days a year, on a rolling roster covering 24 hrs a day
Salaried so not OT, or unsociable hrs pay. (I was lucky with seven nights boxing day to 2nd Jan this year
 
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Nannycaff54

Well-known member
I don’t think rail staff really want to strike, at least not any of the ones I’ve spoken to. But the unions have been negotiating for over a year at this point, and the companies don’t care. Staff are getting desperate and are struggling with the cost of living and poor work conditions
Avantis parent company promised a pay out of £500 million to shareholders last year but apparently can’t even give staff a 4-5% pay increase 🙄
There’s a lot of desperate staff at the airports putting up with very abusive travellers working for a lot less pay than SOME of the rail staff. The government do not care about any of this . They actually said on air the people shouldn’t be asking for big pay rises. I do sympathise with the rail workers but I sympathise more for workers like my grandson who can’t get to work and will lose a big chunk of their monthly wage because of it.
 
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Pushyplumb

VIP Member
No onboard staff means people will just fare dodge more. I think especially during the evening knowing a member of staff is on the train makes people feel a little bit safer.
 
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Folkevermore

VIP Member
Folkevermore I am a Crew Planner so I know exactly what you are talking about, it can be hard to try and get these things across to people with little understanding of the railway. To be honest half of my headaches come from people who should have a good understanding of the railway sticking their oar into issues they dont understand, that's bad enough!

Had an email chain land in my inbox the other day that had been all round the houses about 'solving a problem' that I identified a fix for in 30 seconds purely by knowing what the actual plan was rather than trying to invent one outside my sphere of expertise.

The trains can be rubbish and are at the moment (for a myriad of factors) but I think it is easy to say 'lol why don't they just do X' when the whole system is complicated by it's very nature do to the layers of modernisation that have come in. That doesn't fit the narrative though, especially for politicians. Apparently the 'dinosaur' railway needs to 'get with the times' and make it easier for staff to perform different roles/sign more routes and traction. Like they did under British Rail, then ;)
it’s definitely so frustrating that people don’t realise all of the work that goes on behind the scenes, and how difficult and complex it is to keep the railway running.

their “modernisation” techniques are useless. The way to “modernise” the railway is to actually spend money on infrastructure upgrades, but the politicians don’t want to hear that. The reason we have a “dinosaur” railway is because half of it is from the Victorian times and they don’t want to spend the money to improve it. They just want us to magically fit more trains in, and when the railways are at maximum capacity (because they want as many trains as possible to run), delays are inevitable because one person holding a train up in Euston because they’re having an argument with the British transport police can mess up the timetable in Edinburgh for the rest of the day.
 
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PinkandTwinkly

VIP Member
Ffs. Don’t they care that people are losing money and jobs by not being able to go to work. How bloody much are they asking for. Everyone is
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Ignoring the H&S changes, they're trying to buy out a lot of current terms and conditions which costs money
If someone told you your were having a change to your job which made the hours more unsociable, or that you now had to work a Sunday when you didn't before you'd expect more that below inflation for that.

I just feel sorry for those having to strike and deal with more days lost pay
 
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So 5 hours is acceptable to travel only 61 miles. That’s what happened to me on Monday. Thanks Southern Rail.
I'm sure there was an underlying reason for that? Or are they just timetabling it as a massive waste of resource for a laugh?

I understand the views about 'some routes don't need staffing etc' but part of my job involves looking at the incident logs for the last 24 hours across the North of England and I can assure you the amount of stuff reported (never mind unreported!) Is eye opening. That is happening with sraffing presence reacting to it/reporting it so I can only imagine how much it will increase in a world where you essentially never see any frontline rail staff at all.

The points about non-frontline rail staff are totally valid but these debates always focus on frontline which is why I have focused on them. Start describing power box operation or tamper trains to a layman and you may aswell be speaking Esparanto.
 
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Folkevermore

VIP Member
I'm not sure I buy the not safe without guards argument.

Some companies got rid of them years ago and it's made little difference.

Many of the trains here are absolutely huge with 12+ carriages so I don't think one guard would make much difference.
I think it’s important for some things, such as if there’s a medical emergency on board. All on board staff have safety critical training and have regular training on everything from heart attacks to bomb threats.
I don’t have much faith in our population, if someone was having a heart attack or choking the general public on the train would probably just sit and watch.
I think on board staff are important for longer journeys, maybe local services not so much? They stop more often so if there is an issue it’s easier to deal with.
 
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Nannycaff

Member
How far is the commute? Not ideal but for that money I'd be looking at an Uber, depending on time (and admittedly they will probably surge price on a strike day) they aren't that expensive long distance in comparison to losing that amount of money.
It’s roughly 70miles each way, so if he tried to use buses it would take at least 3 hours each way. When you’re working a 12hr night shift it’s not ideal.
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are there any hotels nearby? If you can get a decent deal it may be worth it for him
He has looked at hotels in Brighton but as he works nights he would have to book 2 nights as he finishes work at 6 in the morning and you have to check out of your room by 11 meaning he would get 3 hours sleep then he would have to leave. He could pay for an extra night and leave at 5pm and that would cost quite a bit of money too. It’s a no win situation.
 
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Warpaint

VIP Member
So starting from today there will be no normal services until January 9th. Mental for people who need to travel.
 
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Folkevermore

VIP Member
I know three people whom work on the railways for train operating companies.

None are contracted to work on a Sunday. If they choose to, it is voluntary and classed as overtime, for which they are paid the time and a quarter per hour.

I also once said to one of them about the litter strewn tables on the train. They essentially told me 'not my job to clear them'. If you are responsible for a running train, surely litter clearing is part of that responsibility. It is not Health and safety?

I agree it is the public who ultimately need to be responsible for their own mess. However, as we know some are just utterly selfish pigs.
It must vary on tocs, my partner works onboard at avanti and works Sundays contractually, he also clears tables. Train managers have lots of other duties you might not be aware of though, it would make sense to have additional on board crew to deal with that stuff.
Clearing tables isn’t the issue here, the modernisation talk is about cutting 2,500 maintenance jobs, it’s to do with the infrastructure not how the trains are run
 
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Warpaint

VIP Member
Please could a mod drop the 'June' from the thread title. Seems it's going on and on...

13-14 December
16-17 December
3-4 January
6-7 January
 
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