The Royal Family #12

[MrAllSeeingEye]

She doesn't keep up my morale. I dont know her.
Nor is she a role model to me. How could she be as our lives are world's apart.

Just because she isn't those things to you doesn't mean she isn't to a lot of people throughout the world and you can't deny that.

You don't have to be an obsessive Royalist (I'm by no means a Royalist!) to recognise the role The Queen has played during her 70 year reign. 70 years. It annoys me when people belittle it and say 'yeah but what has she done?' or 'She's never worked a day in her life!' Just because she hasn't been down the coal mine everyday of her life doesn't mean she hasn't worked. She has served as the figurehead for this country for the lifetime of many, including my parents and has been a constant in our lives through so much change but also so many challenging times.

Simply because someone's life might be 'world's apart' from your own doesn't mean you can't relate or draw inspiration from them. She didn't have to sit on her own at the funeral of her Husband of 70 years, but she chose to. She doesn't have to give a speech to the nation every Christmas, but she chose to carry on the tradition that her Father started. She could probably have scaled back her public duties long before now too, but she chose to continue. It's this sense of duty and dedication to her country and its people since she was a young girl that I think, personally, is so admirable.

I for one found it moving when she gave that speech in April 2020. As someone who lives alone, that first lockdown was an incredibly tough time and to hear The Queen say what she said gave me hope for the future. She may live a very different, privileged life compared to most, but it is her empathy, ability to read the room and do and say what is appropriate in the moment that I think is her greatest skill.

I really do think that we can't underestimate what a loss it will be when the inevitable happens. It will be a huge moment of change and not for the better I fear.

 

[IrishMom30]

It also wouldnt mean anything to a lot of people.

I'm Irish, I live in the republic of Ireland and her speech meant a lot to me even though she is not my Queen. She did a hell of a lot better than the politicians we have here. It was just what I needed to hear at a time when I needed it most. I have respect for her and all the monarchy.

 

[RJF]

Exactly, the Queen has probably been the longest serving and most scandal free head of state of any head of state serving in the World today and has given a lifetime of service.

This is because she is not held to account on election promises nor scrutinised in anywhere near the same way as politicians nor, quite frankly, responsible for anything.

Far better than a President Blair or President Johnson republicans want would be. We elect our MPs and PM, our constitutional monarchy however works and the Queen has performed the role perfectly

You can’t brush aside the idea of a republic because you don’t personally like Tony Blair or Boris Johnson. It’s a bit like saying we should go to witch doctors because some medical professionals are like Harold Shipman. The world doesn’t work that way. It’s not a binary choice.

 

[Great_Kate]

I will say, that in retrospect it was a massive mistake to drag those grieving children back to London to appease a hysteric mass. People were really crazy and definitely overstepped a line here with those demands. It should have been enough if she went back alone. In general they deserved privacy and time. Not just the coming back to London but also how they handled it afterwards. It was good for the Firm, but it definitely affected the children in a negative way that plays out till today. So she was actually doing the right thing initially. The ones that should have read the room were the people that acted as if their grieve over her was as important than her actual family. I wish HMTQ would have come back and made a televised speech acknowledging the effect Diana’s death had on the nation but also emphasised that her children are to be left alone.

 

[whathastheworldcometo]

She's head of State of the UK and a number of commonwealth countries.

She represents the nation at key points in our national life. My workplace had a significant anniversary in 2007. She came to our site and looked at the work we do.

She does/did that twice a day for 200 odd days a year.

She also acts as patron for a number of charities.

Most importantly though she keeps out of things and let's other people sort it out.

God save the Queen!

Yes, and in addition she keeps up morale -
Just look at her speech in early April 2020 when she spoke about the pandemic and said "we will meet again" or think back to when she addressed the children during WW2 that had to be evacuated

She also serves as a role model -
Like when she sat alone at PP's funeral (she was offered an exception from the rules but declined as she said it wasn't fair) and when was isolating alone with him over Christmas, not seeing her family

She demonstrates loyalty and discipline -
I remember her standing on the boat during the cold travel up the Thames during her last jubilee

She reminds people of their values -
When she criticised "people that talk but dont do" before the last climate summit and when she said to get the vaccine and "not just think about yourself but other people"

She provides a kind of national identity -
Her image on the money, her name, her rituals, even just her longevity

 

[President_Butthead]

@TYL159 you mentioned in the previous thread ‘the Queen is known worldwide for her lifetime of service’ and I’m wondering what exactly has she done?

She's head of State of the UK and a number of commonwealth countries.

She represents the nation at key points in our national life. My workplace had a significant anniversary in 2007. She came to our site and looked at the work we do.

She does/did that twice a day for 200 odd days a year.

She also acts as patron for a number of charities.

Most importantly though she keeps out of things and let's other people sort it out.

God save the Queen!

 

[thegirlscout]

As for Virginia, she has just accepted a multi million dollar settlement, having seemingly abandoned her desire for her day in court as soon as the prospect of a huge paycheque came up. So forgive me if I have little sympathy for her now

Dear Lord, your attitude to a woman who has been a victim of sex trafficking is disgusting. Is there no depths you’ll go to defend your precious monarchy?

 

[BumbleB]

Crying

 

[Tangent Tiger]

And people wonder why Harry walked away from the shit show

Harry didn't walk away, he wanted to keep all of the perks of being an RF member and money and titles whilst trading from that to earn commercial money.

There isn't anything admirable about it.

 

[Popcorn&Peanuts]

⁸

As for Virginia, she has just accepted a multi million dollar settlement, having seemingly abandoned her desire for her day in court as soon as the prospect of a huge paycheque came up. So forgive me if I have little sympathy for her now

This comment makes me very uncomfortable. The woman is a victim of sex trafficking and sexual abuse; are we really going to talk about not having sympathy for her trying to find a resolution to her situation?

Virginia has been fighting this battle for sometime and I'm sure she's been threatened and attempts have been made to silence her. All this publicity and dragging of her name through the mud must have been mentally exhausting for herself and her family.

So why would anyone begrudge her the chance to settle and find some peace now in all this? I mean, don't get me wrong, I was looking forwarding to the entertainment Andrew would have inevitably provided under cross-examination but my feelings don't matter here...only the victims' and if Virginia feels that this is what is right for her and allows her some peace of mind and comfort, who am I or anyone else to cast aspersions on that?

Quite frankly, Andrew should be counting his blessings that she accepted. His reputation would have been further torn to shreds if he was deposed and I suspect the royal family knows this hence the move to settle so quickly.

 

[Popcorn&Peanuts]

The descendants of people who were raped, brutalised and/or murdered by the Empire, presumably?

Yes, I was wondering if I was the only one who found that comment questionable. I really don't mean to be argumentative but being so dismissive of Britain's colonial and imperial past and its impact on so many countries and societies that are still dealing with the fallout of their history long after the British have packed up and gone, is offensive and disrespectful. My father was born in India and I was born in Trinidad so both my places of birth and ancestry have experienced colonialism and all that comes with that. The slavery, brutality and raping of people and resources is not just an unpleasant footnote in British history, it's a defining part. What really infuriates me is how DM readers, whenever there is an article about colonialism, always talk about how the British brought roads and schools and civilisation to the empire. How absolutely condescending and untruthful. I'm sure the diamonds, sugar, gold, spices, SLAVES, money and other resources did not factor in to their crusade of kindness.

Oddly enough, I'm quite an Anglophile myself... maybe it's Stockholm syndrome. My favourite sport is cricket, I adore English Literature and studied it for A Levels, I regularly read British newspapers and watch British shows and learn what I can about British history, so it's not that I have a hatred for all things British or an axe to grind, but to pretend that colonialism is a minor annotation is egregious.

 

[Jane Tee]

Yes, and in addition she keeps up morale -
Just look at her speech in early April 2020 when she spoke about the pandemic and said "we will meet again" or think back to when she addressed the children during WW2 that had to be evacuated

She also serves as a role model -
Like when she sat alone at PP's funeral (she was offered an exception from the rules but declined as she said it wasn't fair) and when was isolating alone with him over Christmas, not seeing her family

She demonstrates loyalty and discipline -
I remember her standing on the boat during the cold travel up the Thames during her last jubilee

She reminds people of their values -
When she criticised "people that talk but dont do" before the last climate summit and when she said to get the vaccine and "not just think about yourself but other people"

She provides a kind of national identity -
Her image on the money, her name, her rituals, even just her longevity

She doesn't keep up my morale. I dont know her.
Nor is she a role model to me. How could she be as our lives are world's apart.

 

[hannah123]

Yeah, in America ‘crackers’ is derogatory slang for whites person.


I agree but it’s not just online. The countries politicians are talking about it and even in American you have people like Whoppi Goldberg saying stuff that the Royal Family should apologise. I understand why they want these things but as discussed here it’s not so cut and dry as it just being white people who partook in slavery and benefited from it. And I think that’s a difficult truth some of those calling for reparations don’t want to confront.

I saw Whoopi discussing it and I’m surprised she’s still even on TV chat shows considering Sharon Osborne was basically sacked for being mates with Piers Morgan, but can a woman who claimed the Holocaust was nothing to do with race really add anything to a discussion like this?

It’s like Dr Shola kicking and screaming about William apologising for the slave trade when she’s the granddaughter of a Nigerian King who sold his own people to the slave trade. Whilst William’s grandparents were decolonising the empire and one set of Catherine’s were working down a mine, hers were selling slaves, but it’s them that should apologise in her world. I know some people don’t like him, but the Jordan Peterson quote of get your house in order before you try and save the world rings quite true in this instance.

 

[bubbadabut]

I visited the Royal Yacht Britannia this weekend. It was very good - a bit like HMS Belfast but more opulent

The beds were so small. Standard issue single beds and one double bed - brought on at the request of Prince Charles for him and Diana. I saw a picture of Edward and Andrew actually looking quite hot

Everything has been preserved pretty much how it was when it was decommissioned in 1997, even newspapers from the actual day. All the clocks are stopped at 3.01pm to represent the time the Queen last stepped off.

Philip's study had the model of his Navy ship, "Magpie". The Queen's bed is the floral single with valance. Her office is the one with the long desk and fireplace. Philip's bed is the red one.

It's very nice, but not as opulent as you would expect. I would describe it as dated glamour. I enjoyed seeing a lot of the gifts that had been presented to the RF on their travels. A good day out and the audio guide was really informative about the ship's features and what went on.

 

[DozyWebster]

this is apparently what happened with those “The queen has died” rumours.

 

[Eureka]

This might be controversial to some but I agree, & I remember exactly what I was like at that age and 17 for that matter, & I knew how to manipulate & I knew exactly what I was doing. (Despite the fact I was still a virgin )
Under the shade of total anonymity here being brutally honest if I'd been offered a trip somewhere & it was all legal (not talking morals here) I'd probably have taken it.

17 y/o girls mostly do know what they are doing & are very aware. At that age you're coming into your own & taking full advantage of your "woman powers"
There's manipulation on both sides & both sides are as bad as each other. I genuinely believe girls think they are taking the piss out of men more than the men are out of them.
Obviously this is not in ALL cases. But the majority.
We've all been 17 & thought we were IT!
I look back & wish I'd taken more advantage of situations I ended up in !
It's all part of growing up.

There's being trafficked in the back of a van against your will & there's being "trafficked" thinking about something 30 years later when you're a bit ashamed of your younger years being a bit of a slag & went places willingly only to end up with post shag regrets when shit comes to light.

Everyone needs to take responsibility for their own shit.

I can’t disagree more. I was very promiscuous at that age sleeping with anyone who would have me. I was coming from a traumatic childhood where sexual abuse was the norm. I thought I was the shit at 16/17 because I was sleeping with people I wanted to sleep with and if you’d ask me at the time I’d have told you I was taking control of my own life after years of being forced to do things I didn’t want to do.

However, now that I’m in my 40’s I can see I was still being groomed and abused, just in a less obvious way. The control was an illusion and I couldn’t see the manipulation that was going on.

I have huge regret for the situations I got into now, I didn’t at the time. That’s not someone trying to rewrite history or gain something, that’s the clarity that comes with distance, age and greater understanding of the ways abuse works. I find your comments uneducated and disgusting.

 

[RJF]

Bla bla empirial. Who really deeply cares?

The descendants of people who were raped, brutalised and/or murdered by the Empire, presumably?

 

[Eureka]

Let's be real.

Most middle aged men (OK, he was in his early 40s?) would have had sex with her. She appears willing, was introduced by friends, at a social event.

I doubt any man would ask for ID, birth certificate and ask is she was trafficked.

My 27yo son says dating is a minefield, you just don't know how old women are in bars. You hope they are over 18 and many have fake IDs to get in.

I'd really like to know the RPOs stance in that mess.

Stop making excuses for mens shitty behaviour. If your son is worried that underage girls are in pubs or clubs tell him not to shag anyone he’s just met.

 

[Reraciara]

Let's be real.

Most middle aged men (OK, he was in his early 40s?) would have had sex with her. She appears willing, was introduced by friends, at a social event.

I doubt any man would ask for ID, birth certificate and ask is she was trafficked.

My 27yo son says dating is a minefield, you just don't know how old women are in bars. You hope they are over 18 and many have fake IDs to get in.

I'd really like to know the RPOs stance in that mess.

The next time someone complains that people give Andrew shit on here I'm directing them to this post. She was a TRAFFICKED young woman and as the other poster has said Epstein was dodgy for years before this so he should've known better. Violence against women is still a huge thing and rape cases in the UK have about a 3% conviction rate.

Also if your son is that worried about his behaviour around women that's a reflection on him not the women he's trying to flirt with.

 

[Popcorn&Peanuts]

India's right to have any influence over what the British Royal family does ended when it became a republic. The UK is obviously not going to invade India or India invade the UK nor is the UK going to hand back any jewels it has.

Plus given India abstained in the UN Security Council vote on Russian invasion of Ukraine last night unlike the UK it can hardly take the moral high ground at the moment either. Remember too widows were thrown on funeral pyres in India before it was banned under the British Empire, so the Empire was not all bad

Let's see...where do I begin?

1. "India's right to have any influence over what the British Royal family does ended when it became a republic. The UK is obviously not going to invade India or India invade the UK nor is the UK going to hand back any jewels it has."

But that was not what we were arguing, was it? Your previous comment said that it doesn't matter what India thinks and I contested that claim. India has every right to have an opinion over their OWN stolen resources. As to if they have any right to influence the Royal family on it, that's debatable as I suspect any conversations will involve the respective governments of the 2 countries and no direct dialogue with a ceremonial figurehead, but that was not what your previous post claimed.

2. India's voting over the current situation in Ukraine has nothing to do with the 'moral high ground' or any relevance to their own pillaging. You cannot retroactively apply morality and then use it to nullify past grievances suffered. That's like saying 'oh look, that rape victim stole something. Let's not bother to convict their rapist because their morality is now called into question." It's a false equivalence with no relevance whatsoever.

3. Regarding, the practise of sati - The British passed legislation banning it but the lobbying and grassroots effort to pass the law was undertaken by Indians themselves, in particular Raja Ram Mohan Roy. Was it a good thing that the British prohibited sati? Of course but make no mistake, sati was not universally practised in India, it was a niche practice applied to widows of particular castes and its abolition in NO way justifies the atrocities experienced under the British Raj. Between 1769–1947, there were 31 famines and estimates of anywhere between 12 - 50 million Indian deaths in British-administered India - at times when the British were heavily taxing local farmers AND exporting grains to feed Britain. Additionally, it is estimated that over 45 TRILLION dollars in taxes and resources was siphoned from the Jewel in Crown of the British Empire so forgive me if I cannot see the good that colonisation brought. And this is literally the very tip of the iceberg, to say nothing about Africa and the Caribbean.

But maybe I'm wrong here. I mean, I must be misinterpreting because the fundamental facts of imperialism and colonialism are too deeply rooted in exploitation and too well-established to be disputed so that no one in the 21st entry with a modicum of awareness about world issues can really be trying to argue its benefits or justify the devastating aftershocks...right?