The Jury Murder Trial - Channel 4

[Jelly Bean]

Anyone else watching this?
It's making me so cross already.
The victim blaming and constant 'yes but what did she say to provoke him?'.
Early days I know but seems impossible to defend him so far.

 

[Tofino]

I just came to look for a thread as we’ve been discussing it on the ‘real life crime and murder’ thread. I’ll let them know there is a specific thread here too.

I said on the other thread the victim blaming and attitudes towards women is infuriating me.

 

[Popcornshovel]

Hope this isn't a spoiler - but was reading about the real life case and her family it said it felt like she was on trial during his murder trial (because of his defence that he snapped and lost it). And now history is repeating itself with comments made by the C4 juries!

 

[Jelly Bean]

I just came to look for a thread as we’ve been discussing it on the ‘real life crime and murder’ thread. I’ll let them know there is a specific thread here too.

I said on the other thread the victim blaming and attitudes towards women is infuriating me.

Ah interesting - I didn't know it was being discussed elsewhere.
I simply can't see how anyone rational can defend him?
As for that man - Ricky with the gold bracelets - going on about Helen 'opening her legs too often'. Words fail.
And some starting to feel sorry for John as he looks 'sad'.
Women really have such a hard time in court don't they? Dead or alive.

 

[Tofino]

Ah interesting - I didn't know it was being discussed elsewhere.
I simply can't see how anyone rational can defend him?
As for that man - Ricky with the gold bracelets - going on about Helen 'opening her legs too often'. Words fail.
And some starting to feel sorry for John as he looks 'sad'.
Women really have such a hard time in court don't they? Dead or alive.

Yeah it’s leaving me a bit uncomfortable, I think it’s different knowing some people still think like this to actually see people openly discuss it the way they are. I would have hoped it might be just lone voices but it almost seems 50/50 split with the victim blaming.

I hope it actually has a positive impact (with discussions around why these attitudes are not acceptable) but I’m concerned it will just be overlooked and we will see many of the viewers say similar things.

 

[50sGirl]

Ah interesting - I didn't know it was being discussed elsewhere.
I simply can't see how anyone rational can defend him?
As for that man - Ricky with the gold bracelets - going on about Helen 'opening her legs too often'. Words fail.
And some starting to feel sorry for John as he looks 'sad'.
Women really have such a hard time in court don't they? Dead or alive.

That comment about Helen was disgusting. I hope he is mortified when he watches it back.

Tbh they should all be going in to the court room with an open mind.
Some already have him guilty of murder after the opening speeches before any evidence is given.
Obviously he hit her round the head with a hammer so he wanted to do some serious damage and most likely did want her dead but it’s worrying how many have already made up their minds before the trial is concluded.
If I was on trial, there are several on the programme that I‘d not want on the jury.

 

[StonedCyclist]

I was shocked at the victim blaming.

 

[Ginnyjo]

I'm only a few minutes in, all they've heard is the initial circumstances, and the first thing one juror says is we don't know if she's said anything to provoke him.....and then talks about other jurors being biased, like ffs talk about having no self awareness.

I was on a jury once, was a high profile case, not murder, but involved an attack with life limiting and life changing injuries, the verdict would also be used to establish care for the victim who needed round the clock care for the rest of their lives.
The trial alone was just icky, is the best way I can put it, the victims life beforehand was explored extensively, when it had nothing to to with the attack.

I think I lost a lost of respect for humanity during those 2 weeks, the jury room was rife with misogynistic bullying, older people looked down on younger people, utter twatish behaviour.
One comment that stood out was (ofc) from an older man to me; when I made a comment about the force needed to break a skull (the accused said he lightly scuffed a head with his knee) and the older gentleman told me ' You're a young lady in your 20s you have no clue about that sort of thing'. Bloke was a salesman, I had completed 2 degrees and a masters in a medical related field, I pointed out I had some knowledge in the area he replied 'of course you think you do, young girl'

People were reluctant to convict even with overwhelming evidence medical and witness testified and the reason given was 'well 1 life has been ruined already, I'm not ruining another'
We ended up in a hung jury, originally 50:50, and over the sequestered deliberation one side of the jury targeted individuals to pressure them to change their mind, in the end 3 of us stopped a not guilty verdict, and it went to trial again.
Afterwards when we could talk to the officers they asked how tough it was, asked to shake the hand of whoever held it up, as they could go back for round 2, there was stuff repressed in our trial that would have given a unequivocal guilty verdict that was held up by legal red tape.

It was an utterly horrific experience, one I hope never to have to do again. We were pardoned for 6 years due to the severity of the case, and thankfully I've never been called again.

 

[VicksterIcon]

So much for being "random" jurors...... Sonia the 61 yo carer has been on TV before featured in a programme about racism. Each juror has definitely been picked for various reasons which would not happen when selecting a real jury. I'll continue watching but to be honest don't hold out much hope in either jury doing the right justice!

 

[Droosie123]

I won’t be watching ny more and I despair for any woman in Ricky’s life . Hopefully they see this and run the duck away.

 

[Ginnyjo]

I cannot get over how gullible some of the jury is,

Spoiler

the case will be framed from the defense as making the defendant look innocent, a reasonable man, essentially a victim in it all. Helen can't speak for herself, from her point of view from what happened that day and some of them are lapping the manipulation up, it's scary how much some of them are so biased in his favour, they've literally forgot the actual victim in it.

I'd be very interested to see if the roles were reversed, would Helen be viewed the same way by the juries....

 

[Jelly Bean]

I was only on a jury once about 30 years ago - theft.
I do wonder now if jurors are a bit different. True crime is such a big thing now, podcasts, vlogs etc that a lot of people fancy themselves as armchair experts. Being on a jury for a murder trial must bring out the worst in some people (not the majority obviously). Loving to go into deep clever theories.

I imagine more and more with this case Helen will be portrayed unsympathecially and it will almost be self defence. I hope not.
I was amazed at some of the jurors saying 'oh John looked so sad. I'm changing my mind about him'

 

[Tofino]

I was amazed at some of the jurors saying 'oh John looked so sad. I'm changing my mind about him'

Especially given everybody knows it’s an actor

 

[Ginnyjo]

JFC anyone watched the end of episode 2?

 

[Jelly Bean]

JFC anyone watched the end of episode 2?

No not yet - waiting until tonight.

 

[Rosie glow]

It's not quite what I thought it was going to be I thought it was just following the trial as it happened not the backroom stuff and following the juriors like Ricky in the pub
Anyway I still found it an interesting watch im not sure how many of them actually went in with an open mind though it seemed the younger ones were convinced he was guilty from the start whilst the older ones were like no he was provoked in to it
The victim blaming/shaming was shocking just because a woman has kids with different fathers she's classed as a s@#g Ricky really needs to give his head a wobble what a chauvinist attitude
Was also surprised how many of them changed their attitude to the accused after he started with the water works it really makes me wonder how many miscarriages of justice have happened over the years

 

[Ubu1uk]

I was on a jury a few years ago, (armed robbery) and we kept being sent out so they could discuss what we were allowed to hear. But we never discussed the case until we were sent to the Jury room. In this programme they are chatting about it all the time while having lunch etc. So I wonder if my jury was the exception. I also think the juries have not really been randomly selected as they all seem to have something that makes them sympathetic to the victim or the accused. I did think a couple of members of my jury had no interest at all and barely listened to the rather complex arguments used. They just wanted it all to be over.

 

[Tofino]

I’m not really familiar with the manslaughter loss of control defence. I’d be interested to know how often it’s used for men killing their partners vs men killing other men.

I feel like it’s not much of a step away from the rough sex defence. The woman wanted it vs the woman made me snap with rage in the moment

 

[Loppylou89]

I’ve just started episode 2. I don’t know how I feel about this other than uncomfortable. The victim blaming is unreal. What they said about her having kids with different dads! Unreal

 

[Popcornshovel]

I’m not really familiar with the manslaughter loss of control defence. I’d be interested to know how often it’s used for men killing their partners vs men killing other men.

I feel like it’s not much of a step away from the rough sex defence. The woman wanted it vs the woman made me snap with rage in the moment

Yeah I'm actually shocked that a man can strangle and then hit his wife over the head with a hammer multiple times and say that he just lost control and didn't mean to kill her, therefore argue it's not murder.