The saxophone thing was absolutely ridiculous
New to Tattle Life? Click "Order Thread by Most Liked Posts" button below to get an idea of what the site is about:
Yeah! I don’t know how that woman came up with the idea
Burke had been smearing his tit all over her food, all over her bedroom walls and in her bed. And had previously struck JonBenét in the face with a golf club.
It’s likely the parents covered up and staged the scene though, so I doubt Burke had anything to do with the garrotte.
It’s likely the parents covered up and staged the scene though, so I doubt Burke had anything to do with the garrotte.
Do they know this for sure? Could it be her own excrement from not washing her hands? She was known to have toilet issues she was only six.
I’ve watched and read a lot about this case over the years and this is my opinion of what happened:
The family got home from the Christmas party and Jonbenet was asleep - John carried her from the car and put her to bed (this matches John’s story)
At some point in the evening, Jonbenet awoke and went downstairs to find Patsy and Burke having a snack of pineapple and milk in the kitchen. Jonbenet stole a piece of pineapple from Burke’s bowl (Jonbenet had undigested pineapple in her stomach but only Burke‘s fingerprints were on the bowl and spoon)
In a moment of anger, Burke picks up a heavy flashlight (there was a heavy flashlight found in the kitchen that was devoid of fingerprints including on the BATTERIES - as if it had been wiped clean) and hits Jonbenet on the head, cracking her skull. Patsy and John, thinking shes dead, stage the crime scene (Patsy’s sweater fibres were found on the tape over Jonbenet’s mouth, the handwriting of the letter was a very close match to her writing, John had served in the navy and was very capable of making the knots found in the garrotte).
The head injury didn’t kill her - forensics found that the strangulation was performed 45 mins - 2 hours after the original head wound and this was the actual cause of death.
I think the Ramseys loved their children very much and a mixture of fear of losing Burke, fear of their damaged reputation/what people would think of them and pure panic/grief of losing a child led them to do everything they could to cover up the crime.
Unfortunately I don’t think the case will ever be solved though. The police royally ducked up the crime scene and too much time has passed now.
The family got home from the Christmas party and Jonbenet was asleep - John carried her from the car and put her to bed (this matches John’s story)
At some point in the evening, Jonbenet awoke and went downstairs to find Patsy and Burke having a snack of pineapple and milk in the kitchen. Jonbenet stole a piece of pineapple from Burke’s bowl (Jonbenet had undigested pineapple in her stomach but only Burke‘s fingerprints were on the bowl and spoon)
In a moment of anger, Burke picks up a heavy flashlight (there was a heavy flashlight found in the kitchen that was devoid of fingerprints including on the BATTERIES - as if it had been wiped clean) and hits Jonbenet on the head, cracking her skull. Patsy and John, thinking shes dead, stage the crime scene (Patsy’s sweater fibres were found on the tape over Jonbenet’s mouth, the handwriting of the letter was a very close match to her writing, John had served in the navy and was very capable of making the knots found in the garrotte).
The head injury didn’t kill her - forensics found that the strangulation was performed 45 mins - 2 hours after the original head wound and this was the actual cause of death.
I think the Ramseys loved their children very much and a mixture of fear of losing Burke, fear of their damaged reputation/what people would think of them and pure panic/grief of losing a child led them to do everything they could to cover up the crime.
Unfortunately I don’t think the case will ever be solved though. The police royally ducked up the crime scene and too much time has passed now.
So the Ramseys, who love their children very much, upon thinking their 9 year old son has accidentally killed their daughter, proceed to fashion a garrotte and strangle her so hard the cord is fully embedded in her neck, then decide to sexually assault her with a paintbrush for good measure? What loving parent could do that? Not to mention there were marks on her neck from where she had been clawing at the cord while being strangled so she was conscious while being strangled. Upon seeing their daughter desperately clawing at the cord while being strangled you'd think the Ramseys would realise their daughter was alive and would stop.
Then there's the male DNA in her underwear and under her nails that doesn't match the family, and the marks on her that look like stun gun marks.
The Burke did it theory just makes absolutely no sense.
Then there's the male DNA in her underwear and under her nails that doesn't match the family, and the marks on her that look like stun gun marks.
The Burke did it theory just makes absolutely no sense.
I kinda agree with you, but the 'kidnap' note doesn't make much sense either
Even if you discount that the writing had similarities to mum's handwriting, it was clearly written on a notepad in the house. I'm no expert but it feels like it's written by a female. Why would a kidnapper write a strange note that is like War and Peace then not kidnap the child?
The pineapple and milk is another odd point, neither parent had given this to JonBenet but she had eaten it and it was on the kitchen table. The parents hadn't cut the pineapple up and left it in the fridge.
Possibly an intruder took JonBenet to the basement room where she was found but couldn't get her out of the window and so killed her there.
Such a sad case, poor child.
Last edited:
I’m just starting 2nd ep on Netflix - my god that woman who came up with the saxophone crap should not be allowed children nevermind anyone else….
So they realise she’s alive and stop and then what? Take her to the hospital? How do they explain her condition? I think they were mad with grief and desperation and didn’t see a way out, and the night just snowballed for them.
The intruder theory makes zero sense to me. An intruder took her from her bed, force fed her a piece of pineapple, hit her on the head then took her down to the basement an hour or two later and killed her? And at some point sat down at the dinner table and hand-wrote a ransom letter for a child that was either already dead or close to dying? What would be the point? And why would they risk spending so much time there - if it was a planned abduction, surely you would write the letter before entering the house, to spend as little time there as possible. The intruder would‘ve been in that house for 1-2 hours at least. You would think a ‘foreign faction’ (as they called themselves in the letter) would have planned it a little better.
I just don’t buy it.
What about the taser theory?
It’s so obvious that whoever murdered her was a sexually motivated pedophile. My best guess would be someone that had an issue with John, from a business perspective. And the fact JBR was “known” due to the beauty pageant circuit, she’d be more likely to be targeted by creeps. I also wonder if whoever did it was already in the home prior to them arriving back on Christmas night. That house was so large, it would be easy to hide in and go unnoticed.
Burke did it, it will take a lot to convince me he didn’t. Laura Richards and Jim Clemente were right in their documentary. Years of crime analysis behind them at the FBI and NS Yard.
It will never be solved now as it was so badly mismanaged at the beginning.
It will never be solved now as it was so badly mismanaged at the beginning.
They were so mad with grief at losing their daughter that when she came back to life they just thought ah duck it let's just kill her anyway? Surely you'd just be so relieved she's alive you'd think about the consequences later. And when Burke supposedly hit her over the head they just assumed she was dead without checking for a pulse or anything before strangling her? Then there's still the foreign male DNA and those taser like marks that can't be explained by this theory. I agree the ransom note is beyond strange but that doesn't mean her family killed her. And intruder could have broken in while they were out at dinner and had a few hours to write the note. The original plan could have been to kidnap but it went wrong in the basement at some point.
YES what kind of sick freak could watch that cute video of a six year old pretending to play saxophone and think that?? I can't believe that wasn't given more attention. And she said she watched 23 hours of Jonbenet videos... if anyone needs to be on a register it's her
I don’t buy Burke did it and then the parents staged the scene to look like an intruder.
If their 9 year old had seemingly killed their child by hitting them over the head you’d call 911 and you might lie and say you don’t know how she got the injury or you might say she’s fallen down the stairs. The police didn’t even spot the head injury when they found her so the parents would have unlikely to know the seriousness of the injury to know it was fatal.
I think it was an intruder who’d taken time to know the families movements. They had learned about John’s bonus. They may well have been known to JonBenet. Or dressed as bleeping Santa when they went in her room.
They may well have given JB the pineapple trying to befriend her. Like if they’d woken her and before leaving through the basement window she’d said she was hungry. Or she may have eaten it earlier then thought. I really think she had met the perpetrator before so that the perp was desperate to get close to her. The feeding her a snack and the fact she had a blanket with her. He was trying to act like he cared for her (in a sick twisted way he probably did)
I think they had written the letter before committing the crime. It was not rushed. They had time to sit and think what they were going to say to cause the most confusion. Potentially they had the initial intention of taking her and not killing her immediately but then when they took her down to the basement to exit via the broken window they decided to assault her there and then. They may well have not planned to kill her then either but then it escalated. This makes sense to me as they’d have no way to know the police would duck up and not check the train room as you’d assume the police will check the whole house immediately. So the letter would have been a very short throw off the scent if they had immediately found the body. Why would the parents write it and then leave her body to be found so easily??
The letter was written to throw police off, cause confusion and a reason for JonBenet being gone to throw police off the scent of it being a sexual predator. They also left it on the stairs potentially to distract the parents whilst they were in the basement making their escape. But the plan changed and they left her dead in the basement. So the letter didn’t allign with the body being left as he didn’t plan to do that.
Can’t believe they haven’t looked for ancestral dna yet for the male dna found in her underwear.
If their 9 year old had seemingly killed their child by hitting them over the head you’d call 911 and you might lie and say you don’t know how she got the injury or you might say she’s fallen down the stairs. The police didn’t even spot the head injury when they found her so the parents would have unlikely to know the seriousness of the injury to know it was fatal.
I think it was an intruder who’d taken time to know the families movements. They had learned about John’s bonus. They may well have been known to JonBenet. Or dressed as bleeping Santa when they went in her room.
They may well have given JB the pineapple trying to befriend her. Like if they’d woken her and before leaving through the basement window she’d said she was hungry. Or she may have eaten it earlier then thought. I really think she had met the perpetrator before so that the perp was desperate to get close to her. The feeding her a snack and the fact she had a blanket with her. He was trying to act like he cared for her (in a sick twisted way he probably did)
I think they had written the letter before committing the crime. It was not rushed. They had time to sit and think what they were going to say to cause the most confusion. Potentially they had the initial intention of taking her and not killing her immediately but then when they took her down to the basement to exit via the broken window they decided to assault her there and then. They may well have not planned to kill her then either but then it escalated. This makes sense to me as they’d have no way to know the police would duck up and not check the train room as you’d assume the police will check the whole house immediately. So the letter would have been a very short throw off the scent if they had immediately found the body. Why would the parents write it and then leave her body to be found so easily??
The letter was written to throw police off, cause confusion and a reason for JonBenet being gone to throw police off the scent of it being a sexual predator. They also left it on the stairs potentially to distract the parents whilst they were in the basement making their escape. But the plan changed and they left her dead in the basement. So the letter didn’t allign with the body being left as he didn’t plan to do that.
Can’t believe they haven’t looked for ancestral dna yet for the male dna found in her underwear.
I've not seen this latest NF docu. But I've researched a lot on this case and urge anyone who has any interest to read James Kolar's book Foreign Faction. He's ex FBI and blows the intruder theory out the water, with a forensic examination of all the known evidence.
Me, I think Burke did it. He had form for attacking JB. My theory:
- he killed her by bashing her on head with Maglight tourch
- He then made the garotte (the knot used was one he had learned the previous month at Boy Scouts) - not to strangle her but to drag her into the basement (hence the inclusion of the paintbrush handle in the garotte)
- Patsy discovered it and John dictated the note to her - she adding a few flourishes of her own (it uses very maternal language in places)
- They were up all night which is why Patsy had on the same clothes she'd been wearing the night before
Happy to expand on any of these points. It's an interesting one where, unlike with the McCanns, I don't think we'll ever formally find out the truth.
Me, I think Burke did it. He had form for attacking JB. My theory:
- he killed her by bashing her on head with Maglight tourch
- He then made the garotte (the knot used was one he had learned the previous month at Boy Scouts) - not to strangle her but to drag her into the basement (hence the inclusion of the paintbrush handle in the garotte)
- Patsy discovered it and John dictated the note to her - she adding a few flourishes of her own (it uses very maternal language in places)
- They were up all night which is why Patsy had on the same clothes she'd been wearing the night before
Happy to expand on any of these points. It's an interesting one where, unlike with the McCanns, I don't think we'll ever formally find out the truth.
Why would they write the letter knowing JonBenet is in the basement? They had no way of knowing that the police wouldn’t immediately discover her. What was the point of the letter if her body was found straight away?
For this story to be true, John, Patsy and Burke were all in on it. John would have known Patsy was out of bed. After this many years and not one has changed their story? Burke would be a seriously seriously disturbed child having murdered his sister assaulting her sexually, yet has not gone on to be convicted of any other crimes.
I find the father John particularly believable and compelling in interviews. Patsy character made her harder to believe. She is naturally prickly and not ‘likeable’ and Burke was clearly an odd kid. But a killer? And these stories of him having done all this stuff to JB previously, are they validated? Where did that info come from?
The intruder had planned a lot, but went off piste taking her into the train room, he planned to take her and leave. It was Christmas with visitors coming and going, the family wouldn’t have been paying as much attention. My theory. The perpetrator was off work, knew he was spending Christmas alone. He knew JB would be spending it with her family and wanted her to himself.
Why would they write the letter knowing JonBenet is in the basement? They had no way of knowing that the police wouldn’t immediately discover her. What was the point of the letter if her body was found straight away?
The letter was written to create the idea of an outside intruder.
For this story to be true, John, Patsy and Burke were all in on it. John would have known Patsy was out of bed. After this many years and not one has changed their story?
Patsy died of cancer, but other than that - yes, correct.
Burke would be a seriously seriously disturbed child having murdered his sister assaulting her sexually, yet has not gone on to be convicted of any other crimes.
In the US, a third of sexual assaults are committed by minors on other minors. Although I don't believe Burke sexuall assaulted JB.
I find the father John particularly believable and compelling in interviews. Patsy character made her harder to believe. She is naturally prickly and not ‘likeable’ and Burke was clearly an odd kid.
I believe Burke shows symptoms of being ASD. This has no bearing on his capacity to commit the crime, just saying, as a woman on the spectrum myself, that I don't think he's 'odd' - just ND. Having said that, none of their perceievd personal characteristics are relevant to whether they did it or not. the evidence all points that way.
But a killer? And these stories of him having done all this stuff to JB previously, are they validated? Where did that info come from?
The attack with the golf club on JB's head - that info came from Burke and separately from a family friend. The poo-smearing came from Patsy.
The letter was written to create the idea of an outside intruder.
For this story to be true, John, Patsy and Burke were all in on it. John would have known Patsy was out of bed. After this many years and not one has changed their story?
Patsy died of cancer, but other than that - yes, correct.
Burke would be a seriously seriously disturbed child having murdered his sister assaulting her sexually, yet has not gone on to be convicted of any other crimes.
In the US, a third of sexual assaults are committed by minors on other minors. Although I don't believe Burke sexuall assaulted JB.
I find the father John particularly believable and compelling in interviews. Patsy character made her harder to believe. She is naturally prickly and not ‘likeable’ and Burke was clearly an odd kid.
I believe Burke shows symptoms of being ASD. This has no bearing on his capacity to commit the crime, just saying, as a woman on the spectrum myself, that I don't think he's 'odd' - just ND. Having said that, none of their perceievd personal characteristics are relevant to whether they did it or not. the evidence all points that way.
But a killer? And these stories of him having done all this stuff to JB previously, are they validated? Where did that info come from?
The attack with the golf club on JB's head - that info came from Burke and separately from a family friend. The poo-smearing came from Patsy.
You don’t think Burke is odd, you just think he murdered his sister… ok that would be odd behaviour in my personal opinion.
It was written to give the allusion of an intruder but was written in patsy notebook and the body was left it the house. Pretty bad staging. If they were staging a kidnapping it was a pretty awful job and just made it look like they did it.
Patsy was alive for many years after the crime and kept to her story even when she was dying of cancer in the end.
It’s such a bizarre case and very polarising as you can stack up the evidence either way. I’m set on the intruder theory personally but I can see why others are convinced it was the family. The family theory just doesn’t add up to me.
(My older brother threw me down the stairs when I was a baby, he also lobbed a stick at my head that needed stitches and smeared poo up a radiator. I’m not saying they can’t be the actions of a disturbed child. In my case it was not. He was just being a silly toddler and wasn’t aware that he could hurt me. Giving this example to demonstrate how depending on the circumstance past events can be viewed in different ways as a sign of what was to come or not)
I don’t think it would be accurate to say Burke murdered his sister.
If he did strike her hard with the torch, even if intentional, he’s still a child. The head injury was severe though, she needed to go to emergency services. (The strangulation occurred 45 minutes to two hours later I believe.)
IMO the parents panicked because JBR was being sexually abused (not by Burke imo) and that’s what they feared would be revealed as a result of investigating her head injury (eg if the emergency services medics alerted social service).
People are only just starting to realise how prevalent incest is, and that’s really only due to DNA mapping as a result of pregnancies. In other words it’s the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of ducked up families out there. And the ones forcing little girls to perform as living dolls are a huge red flag.
archive.ph
If he did strike her hard with the torch, even if intentional, he’s still a child. The head injury was severe though, she needed to go to emergency services. (The strangulation occurred 45 minutes to two hours later I believe.)
IMO the parents panicked because JBR was being sexually abused (not by Burke imo) and that’s what they feared would be revealed as a result of investigating her head injury (eg if the emergency services medics alerted social service).
People are only just starting to realise how prevalent incest is, and that’s really only due to DNA mapping as a result of pregnancies. In other words it’s the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of ducked up families out there. And the ones forcing little girls to perform as living dolls are a huge red flag.
DNA Tests Are Uncovering the True Prevalence of Incest - The Atlantic
archived 19 Nov 2024 00:18:15 UTC
Oh yeah don't get me wrong I don't think he killed her deliberately at all. I think she sneaked up on him, snatched some of his pineapple snack, he whacks her and the effect is that she dies, either quite quickly or equally I am agnostic as to whether the strangulation was the actual cause of death and occurred later.I don’t think it would be accurate to say Burke murdered his sister.
If he did strike her hard with the torch, even if intentional, he’s still a child. The head injury was severe though, she needed to go to emergency services. (The strangulation occurred 45 minutes to two hours later I believe.)
IMO the parents panicked because JBR was being sexually abused (not by Burke imo) and that’s what they feared would be revealed as a result of investigating her head injury (eg if the emergency services medics alerted social service).
People are only just starting to realise how prevalent incest is, and that’s really only due to DNA mapping as a result of pregnancies. In other words it’s the tip of the iceberg. There are a lot of ducked up families out there. And the ones forcing little girls to perform as living dolls are a huge red flag.
DNA Tests Are Uncovering the True Prevalence of Incest - The Atlantic
archived 19 Nov 2024 00:18:15 UTC
Re: incest - yes it is extremely bleeping prevalent, way more than people think. The biggest predictor of incest? Is, simply, overcrowding. That's why it's very prevalent in favelas, slums, projects and other areas marked by poverty and socioeconomic oppression. Now, that clearly wasn't an issue for the Ramseys, but the injuries to JB's vaginal wall would suggest that she was being sexually abused by someone in that house.
It's also worth mentioning and bedwetting and faecal smearing behaviours in children are also glaring red flags for CSA.