The Death Penalty

[Libertine1975]

I don't support the Death Penalty at all. There are a lot of cases where the wrong people have been convicted of crimes they haven't committed.

The US has a terrible appeal systems so it is very hard to overturn a conviction. I would recommend people watch the film Just Mercy which shows real life cases worked on by Bryan Stevenson.

I'm not religious but I do believe that an eye for an eye the whole world would be blind.

 

[WilmaHun]

Clearly the notion of human rights being inalienable goes over some peoples heads. You cannot differentiate human rights from one person to another. They apply to all. It's not hard to get your head around - if they didn't apply to all then they'd be absolutely pointless! Those at the top would grant themselves whatever rights they liked!

Even where evidence appears "solid" or unwavering new evidence can later come to light! The appeal process has to apply to all in the interests of fairness. The law does not differentiate.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Not one person has defended child rapists, as you keep trying to suggest. Stop being ridiculous.

Believing in human rights being inalienable and applying to all (as the law currently states) is not ridiculous.

Yes exactly this. Human rights are for everyone, not 'only people we like and who behave in a way we agree with'. Otherwise there would be no point.
Could not be rolling my eyes harder at the comments criticising appeals existing either, I'm sure if anyone here was wrongly convicted of a crime you'd be very very glad you can appeal. Juries are not infallible.

 

[Lreb88]

I agree with Amnesty International on this one:
“The death penalty is a symptom of a culture of violence, not a solution to it.”
I could never support the death penalty, it goes against our basic human rights to life. We can’t deprive people of their human rights, no matter how abhorrent their crimes, if we do we’re no better than they are.
You have to remove the emotional element, if someone hurt my son of course my first instinct would be to hurt them back, but that’s not how the law works and for very good reason.

 

[WilmaHun]

And some people here trying to say that child rapists deserve to have their human rights upheld are also ridiculous.

Not one person has defended child rapists, as you keep trying to suggest. Stop being ridiculous.

Believing in human rights being inalienable and applying to all (as the law currently states) is not ridiculous.

 

[Grenade30]

I'm against and will always be against. What civilised society tells their citizens that murder is wrong and then murders folk themselves? It is also predominantly bame and poorer people who suffer as wealthy people white people can afford expensive lawyers to get them off. It's fundamentally wrong in my view. It isn't even a deterrent either. The justice system shouldn't be about torturing people either, just keeping them away from greater society if they're a risk to others. Prisoners deserve humane conditions. Rule by angry mob is anachronistic. Revenge shouldn't ever be the basis of a functioning justice system

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

It’s obvious. You don’t understand that America, with the death penalty in many states and federally, has much higher crime levels. You think they don’t have any child rapists? What good has the death penalty ever done for them? Or Afghanistan? Bangladesh? China? Eygpt? You can always go and move to those countries and have a shit (and crime filled) life if you’re that passionate about seeing people murdered by the state.

You are ridiculous.
You’d say the same if some beast raped & mutilated your child?
Get a grip.

Also, what kind of person thinks the way to run a criminal justice system is to let victims decide what happens to perpetrators? You really are showing some animalistic tendencies. Good thing society protects you from yourself- you very likely wouldn’t murder the beast but many would.

 

[Lreb88]

“your view is not important”

Get a grip. You are seriously sitting there trying to tell me that a man who RAPES A BABY should be considered human?

Yes because they are human. I think that labelling the people who commit these kinds of crimes as inhuman or monsters actually does more harm than good. Sadly we as a human race are capable of terrible things, murder/rape/genocide etc. We need to address that and accept responsibility for it rather than just excuse it as the behaviour of people who are ‘inhuman’.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Killing someone isn’t justice it’s revenge.

you don’t get to decide who is human and who is not. The world is bigger than your view and your view isn’t important. We know what a human is- there is a dictionary definition. It’s not for you to make up your own.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Dangerous and illogical game to try to ‘other’ people who commit serious crimes like that. He is human. Just like you. Just like me. Like it or not, it is a fact. His behaviour was abhorrent but we cannot just pretend that he isn’t human because he has committed horrific crimes. The more we do this, support the idea of an inhuman ‘monster’, the more we in a way, excuse and allow the behaviours. By creating this sub-species of ‘monster’ we (society) wash our hands of any responsibility we may have to observe, protect, prevent or rehabilitate and so enable the conditions that create these individuals to thrive.

A THOUSAND TIMES THIS

let’s concentrate on the causes of crime, how criminals are let down long before they commit crime, and what kind of society WE WANT. One with low crime, not one with brutal prisons and government mandated murder.

I can’t believe one poster has already suggested we should be like China. CHINA. Fucking hell.

 

[jazyblu]

You very obviously don’t have children. So there’s no way you can ever comprehend what those of us who do have children feel about this subject.

You don't speak for everyone, you need to realise that.

You have your views and other people have different views. It has nothing to do with not having children or other people never understanding what it feels like to have children, you have no idea about other people's lives.

This is not a children or no children argument.

All people with children do not support the death penalty, just as all people who don't support it are not childless. It really isn't as simple as you are making out.

 

[WilmaHun]

This was in 1952. That’s nearly 70 years ago. Not relevant to a debate for crimes and criminals in 2021

You do realise our legal system is run on a system of precedents?! Old cases, some from the 1800's STILL impact decisions made in courts today because they created a precedent. I recently studied a criminal case for my degree which was from 1924. Still relevant today.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Yes the evidence is solid enough to kill him. Being the victim of abuse or having a learning difficulty doesn’t mean someone can rape a kid and not be held accountable.

Be held accountable, or murdered? They are 2 different things.

You seem to think as long as it’s clear HE DID IT, there are no other circumstances to be taken into account. This is again, simplistic and immature.

So you think it's okay he is receiving help after beheading Lee and holding up a bloody machete to a phone camera? The photo of Lee breaks my heart. These people should not be allowed to live

You think a doctor or nurse should’ve refused him treatment? They’re better people than you- thank goodness

 

[Pinkblush]

For crimes against children yes, but the beyond reasonable doubt rule would have to apply.

 

[The King in the North]

There are 46 crimes that are punishable by death in China. One of them is treason, basically doing anything the government doesn't like, reporting their barbaric crimes against the Muslims. And then cases of robbery, you could litterly forget to pay at the supermarket, and China might kill you if you can't back up your claim.

If there is solid unwavering evidence of the crime being committed then why would we allow an appeal?

Laughing at my post, proves you are letting emotion overthink logic.

 

[WilmaHun]

Some of these comments are ludicrous and show a complete lack of understanding for how the legal system operates.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I do have children. And I think more people think like me than you. Some of them are on this thread.

so nice try at “you don’t have kids you wouldn’t understand”

tbh Betty, I can’t handle your level of debate, it’s like talking to a 16 year old. I’m just going to ignore your posts going forward.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Is that not one and the same though? Not giving him the option (because we as a state decide not to) is the same as a doctor refusing to treat him. Not matter how you word it, the outcome is the same.

Yes it is the same. Prisons have in house medics, for a prisoner to be diagnosed with COVID they must've already been seen by a doctor. Once that has happened, there is surely a duty of care between the doctor and the prisoner. To stop treating them after that point is not justifiable. Unless this poster is suggesting prisoners should receive no medical care at all, I don't see this whole 'just don't treat the COVID' thing working in practice.

how criminals are let down long before they commit crime

Paedophilia is a great example of this, I keep seeing people saying paedophiles deserve the death penalty. But what do we do to pre-empt their offending? Nothing. It's a waiting game, once they offend it's dealt with legally - is that good enough? I don't think so, nor is it fair for the children they offend. I suggest a read of this great article: https://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/oct/16/how-germany-treats-paedophiles-before-they-offend

@BettyCrocker while accusing people of not being able to debate I note you haven't responded to my answer to you re appeals, I would be interested to know what you think.

 

[Furnessian]

I am extremely anti-death penalty. It’s not for the state to take a life, no matter what the crime is. It’s beyond barbaric.

 

[WilmaHun]

You very obviously don’t have children. So there’s no way you can ever comprehend what those of us who do have children feel about this subject.

There's plenty of people who have children who do not support the death penalty. Bit of a ridiculous generalisation to make. Just because YOU feel that way, it doesn't mean every one does. It also doesn't mean those who don't think the same as you are wrong. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - whether they have children or not.