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aliyah_ess

Well-known member
I see so many posts EVERYWHERE feeling sorry for FS.
I really do agree that it seems SB was the dominant partner and SB was the victim of coercive control but what’s the relevance?
She wasn’t so scared of SB that she didn’t also make threats to kill her, she wasn’t so scared of SB that she didn’t go out drinking and flirting with others, she wasn’t so scared of SB that she was a helpless bystander whilst her child was tortured (yep, tortured)

She abused Star with AND without SB present.
Refered to her as a ‘Cu*t’, an ‘it’… bit her fingers, bent her fingers back, forced her to walk whilst in obvious pain. She actually filmed herself shouting at star and star in utter distress, dragging her up every time she falls and ordering her into corners?? Wtf.
SB wasn’t even there at those times!
Took photos whilst she was abusing her and sent them saying ‘look how evil’
We’re talking about a ONE year old baby.

Ok, I get it, some women have children and don’t have that instinctive motherly bond and that’s okay. But they don’t hurt their children, they don’t sit back and allow others to hurt their children.

another thing that’s getting to me…. People are now insinuating that she has some kind of learning delay, that she is ‘slow’

of course her barrister is saying it, it’s part of her defence!! Doesn’t mean it’s true.
In 9 months of antenatal visits and contact with countless midwives she never appeared to be ‘slow’ to the degree where she was incapable of raising a child. Vulnerable, maybe? She was just a teenager. But slow? Had some cognitive delay? Absolfuckingloutely not.
Look at her Facebook… her use of grammar alone shows she doesn’t have a current learning delay.

She is not the victim people are painting her to be. Not by a long shot.
Not a victim who was able to be influenced enough to abuse her own child.

It does appear that SB was the ringleader in the abuse, but she wasnt so fucking slow that she didn’t know right from wrong.
She wasn’t so slow that she didn’t know how to deliver basic care to her child.
Her home was very clean, she herself was very clean and well presented. Aside from a couple of pictures of star where she’d obviously been eating or just woken up, that little girl was immaculately dressed and very clean. Far from scruffs.
See, You see some mums with their kids and they all look like scruffs, their houses are nasty. This kind of neglect you’d expect from someone who was slow. Or someone who was struggling. Or someone who just didn’t know any better because of how they were brought up. A massive difference between neglect and abuse. They either can’t or don’t know how to do it. But more time their children’s emotional needs are met to a tee and they have empathy for their babies.

FS is a monster. Pure and simple. Even animals won’t leave their young in distress.

There’s not an ounce of ‘sorrow’ in me for her. If your baby is that much of a fucking burden then give them away. That would make you a great mother in comparison.
There are plenty of people in this country that would take on a child and provide them with the love and safety they deserve.

I’m far from the greatest mother around and I’ve fucked up countless times, but I could never ever hurt them. I had my first son young and yeah sometimes I resented the fact that I couldn’t do things I could before he came and it got tough sometimes, A LOT of times. But I couldn’t have hurt him.
I hated being a mom sometimes, even now I sometimes actually hate being a mom but I couldn’t live without my kids. They are literally the centre of my world and I’d rather be dead than wake up tomorrow without them. There is no man or woman who will ever take priority over my children. There is nobody who could come into their lives and hurt them and me just stand by and say ‘you go too far though’
I’d kill them. I’d happily happily kill anyone who ever hurt my child the way SB did Star and nobody can tell me that ‘she didn’t know’
She fucking knew, she did it too.
So yeah, maybe SB did the worst of it, and she probably did deal the fatal blow(s)

but FRANKIE SMITH was her mom!!! Or supposed to be. What kind of mom allows that. Her precious innocent baby 😢

fuck that bitch. She is the worst of both of them.
 
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mRsKbRoOkS

VIP Member
Wahooo people are losing perspective here a little. Let’s look at this objectively for a minute and pull out some important points.
Was FS a VICTIM of DV? I’d say absolutely! Is this her fault? no! I think most people can agree it was not Frankie's fault that she was physically and emotionally abused by SB. However, Star is equally or more so a victim. Why because she was younger more vulnerable and Frankie is her protector. Does Frankies abuse help us to understand HOW the horrific death of star occurred ? Yes! Does it excuse Frankie? No! (For murder but not for allowing the death of child).
I think what is happening here are people are merging the two things together. I do not blame Frankie for being abused by SB, but I do put partial blame at her door for stars tragic end. We can go around In circles here all day. One of them did kill star and the evidence suggests this to be SB. SB WILL go down for murder I don’t doubt that! FS will be cleared of that charge but she will still serve prison time, because even though she was a VICTIM, her abuse and Stars death are two very different things IMO.
 
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Do they have the same phone? I don’t even know how to navigate my partner’s phone so i wouldn’t be able to Google on his phone.
I love how he is claiming he did the searches on her phone. Course you did mate. 🙄
and remember SB's phone would be particularly difficult to navigate as the keypad is like no other phone as it adds zeros to minutes and changes sentence's completely according to her evidence the other day!!!!!
 
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avabella

VIP Member
‘Pro-Frankie’? Some people are viewing this very black and white. She wasn’t a good mum but at the end of the day she was a vulnerable 18 year old who wasn’t a good mum. But she also isn’t a murderer as far as the evidence suggests.
Guess I must be ‘pro-Frankie’ then seeing as I’m an educated adult who can look at a whole case objectively and with the facts. I’m not looking emotionally as a mother, but what we have been given. And what we have been given so far is that FS entered into what became a very toxic and unstable relationship very very quickly and was quite clearly absolutely out of her depth.
Anyone saying ‘oh but she threatened to kill her with a vase on the table’ really needs to give their head a wobble. FS no more could have done that than take on Mike Tyson. I’ve said before and I’ll say it again but I’m sick of the ‘but I would have…’ ‘she should have…’ ‘why didn’t she…’.
Think I’ll come back when all the Facebook warriors have gone.
 
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avabella

VIP Member
I've skipped a lot of posts because quite frankly, I cannot believe that even after some brave posters have come forward to give their experiences of some very scary narcissistic controlling and coercion, there are STILL people saying 'but she should have just...' 'she should have known right from wrong' etc etc.

Coercion, trauma, bullying, intimidation, controlling - whatever you want to call it - DID happen to FS. From everything that has been presented so far, that much is true. And that makes her a victim of AT LEAST that. I'm so sick of reading victim blaming and dismissing domestic violence and emotional manipulation as if it's nothing. That's how these people get away with it - because others don't believe the victim.
 
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Lucyxxxx

VIP Member
Imagine stealing your sadly passed little babys money raised off the back of her being brutally murdered, then despite not having the time for your daughter in life, you find the time to fake documents to say you've donated to a children's charity and then when shit hits the fan you leave it to the people who actually did love her to clean up the mess - in the middle of the trial for her murder. What an absolute low life.
 
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pissedandsad

Well-known member
SB was insisting FS make her walk the majority of the time, and even said she wouldn’t hold her hand, I think. She learned all this foul treatment of Star from her, including the notion that Star was deliberately disrespecting her and misbehaving. And good lord, what child her age recalls what she did wrong an hour ago, or can even connect cause and effect? What child her age knows right from wrong? What child her age would comprehend why someone hurts them, when I cannot figure it out. FS was foolish, gullible and almost worshipful of SB by all accounts. FS leaves much to desired in the strength of character department, but I despise this heifer, SB. She is repugnant, revolting, and just plain evil. She wanted that child to suffer. Re-injuring old injuries! Rubbing squash in her eyes! Stripping her down to her nappie & sitting her in front of ac till she shivered! Bending fingers back and pinching her tender skin! Can only imagine the crying that went on. No neighbors to hear, no witnesses. Powerless little baby that didn’t have words to tell anyone. Acting out the pinches and nips and hair pulling the only way she could. SB caressing her, talking to her, then hitting her! Whatever she said to her, I know it was cruel. She spent her spare time conjuring new tortures she could impose that could be explained away & leave few marks. She relished reading about the pain & injury she was inflicting. She is an incredibly flawed human that used the trust of an innocent child and that is worthy of the most severe punishment. She also used the love of a rather simple young woman to satisfy her need for control and power. I do hope she gets life. FS should be sterilized and serve enough years to pound home some serious lessons she is apt to repeat otherwise.
 
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AdelesEarring

Chatty Member
I believe Frankie was the one who sealed Star’s fate that day. She was the one claiming to be ‘ripping her hair out with this child’ and Star had torn up Frankie’s gig ticket. Causing S to become angry and beat poor Star once again for ‘bad behaviour’. Frankie most likely ripped the ticket herself to get attention from S. S brutally attacked while Frankie watched
I don’t believe this for a second. I don’t think FS knew that SB was abusing Star. We can say that she should have known. And I don’t think she did enough to protect Star. But at this point I don’t believe that FS knew about Star’s fractured shin or fractured skull.

All the court evidence shows that SB was trying to hide the abuse that she was inflicting on Star.

All I know is that when I was 19 I had no clue about anything.

When I first knew about this case I thought that the two of them were in on this but I have changed my mind because of the evidence presented in court.
 
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lastdis

VIP Member
He tried to tell the police things. But the police don’t remember that,
I guess the police are..... mistaken
 
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ahnowted

Member
Anyone else been on jury service. I have and it was frankly concerning. I can’t remember much about the men, but the two other women, lord. One was totally disinterested, and the other leans over to me and no word of a lie goes “shall we just let the men decide”.
 
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StrawberrySeed

VIP Member
Right, in preparation for this afternoon’s session, I am off to make a super large brew in my big China cup that holds over a pint of tea.

I’ll just leave this here while we wait… It’s velvet too. Very dapper.
1637588928683.png

PS I hope nobody thinks that I am making light of this dreadful situation and not taking it seriously by making these daft jokes about the witness’s suit. I just think that, sometimes you have to look for chinks of humour in sad situations in order to get through it. Laughing at this fool’s suit is just a little distraction and something to raise a smile before we get back to hearing more upsetting details from this harrowing case.

I have a feeling someone might be ready to tell me off for making inappropriate jokes during a murder trial. So, I just thought I would explain that I am not doing it maliciously because I don’t care. On the contrary, I care a lot, hence being here today and hoping FS tells the truth and Star gets the justice she deserves.
 
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Treesy19

VIP Member
He’s described as wearing a pin striped suit in court. But what about clown makeup, red nose and large shoes?
 
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avabella

VIP Member
I see so many posts EVERYWHERE feeling sorry for FS.
I really do agree that it seems SB was the dominant partner and SB was the victim of coercive control but what’s the relevance?
She wasn’t so scared of SB that she didn’t also make threats to kill her, she wasn’t so scared of SB that she didn’t go out drinking and flirting with others, she wasn’t so scared of SB that she was a helpless bystander whilst her child was tortured (yep, tortured)

She abused Star with AND without SB present.
Refered to her as a ‘Cu*t’, an ‘it’… bit her fingers, bent her fingers back, forced her to walk whilst in obvious pain. She actually filmed herself shouting at star and star in utter distress, dragging her up every time she falls and ordering her into corners?? Wtf.
SB wasn’t even there at those times!
Took photos whilst she was abusing her and sent them saying ‘look how evil’
We’re talking about a ONE year old baby.

Ok, I get it, some women have children and don’t have that instinctive motherly bond and that’s okay. But they don’t hurt their children, they don’t sit back and allow others to hurt their children.

another thing that’s getting to me…. People are now insinuating that she has some kind of learning delay, that she is ‘slow’

of course her barrister is saying it, it’s part of her defence!! Doesn’t mean it’s true.
In 9 months of antenatal visits and contact with countless midwives she never appeared to be ‘slow’ to the degree where she was incapable of raising a child. Vulnerable, maybe? She was just a teenager. But slow? Had some cognitive delay? Absolfuckingloutely not.
Look at her Facebook… her use of grammar alone shows she doesn’t have a current learning delay.

She is not the victim people are painting her to be. Not by a long shot.
Not a victim who was able to be influenced enough to abuse her own child.

It does appear that SB was the ringleader in the abuse, but she wasnt so fucking slow that she didn’t know right from wrong.
She wasn’t so slow that she didn’t know how to deliver basic care to her child.
Her home was very clean, she herself was very clean and well presented. Aside from a couple of pictures of star where she’d obviously been eating or just woken up, that little girl was immaculately dressed and very clean. Far from scruffs.
See, You see some mums with their kids and they all look like scruffs, their houses are nasty. This kind of neglect you’d expect from someone who was slow. Or someone who was struggling. Or someone who just didn’t know any better because of how they were brought up. A massive difference between neglect and abuse. They either can’t or don’t know how to do it. But more time their children’s emotional needs are met to a tee and they have empathy for their babies.

FS is a monster. Pure and simple. Even animals won’t leave their young in distress.

There’s not an ounce of ‘sorrow’ in me for her. If your baby is that much of a fucking burden then give them away. That would make you a great mother in comparison.
There are plenty of people in this country that would take on a child and provide them with the love and safety they deserve.

I’m far from the greatest mother around and I’ve fucked up countless times, but I could never ever hurt them. I had my first son young and yeah sometimes I resented the fact that I couldn’t do things I could before he came and it got tough sometimes, A LOT of times. But I couldn’t have hurt him.
I hated being a mom sometimes, even now I sometimes actually hate being a mom but I couldn’t live without my kids. They are literally the centre of my world and I’d rather be dead than wake up tomorrow without them. There is no man or woman who will ever take priority over my children. There is nobody who could come into their lives and hurt them and me just stand by and say ‘you go too far though’
I’d kill them. I’d happily happily kill anyone who ever hurt my child the way SB did Star and nobody can tell me that ‘she didn’t know’
She fucking knew, she did it too.
So yeah, maybe SB did the worst of it, and she probably did deal the fatal blow(s)

but FRANKIE SMITH was her mom!!! Or supposed to be. What kind of mom allows that. Her precious innocent baby 😢

fuck that bitch. She is the worst of both of them.
A lot of this post is victim blaming, yet again. And as someone else really helpfully pointed out - it IS possible to be a victim and a perpetrator at the same time. If FS was in a coercive, controlling relationship with SB (and all the evidence very much points to that fact) - then that fact is HIGHLY relevant. I'm unsure where the info is that FS stood by and watched Star be tortured - possibly a little embellishment of the facts there.

Is FS a shit mum? Absolutely. Did she hurt Star physically? Possibly, there are eye witnesses accounting to her biting Stars finger. Did she absue her emotionally? Without a doubt. But did she kill her? I'm not convinced the evidence points that way. And that is all it comes down to in the court of law.
 
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LittleMy

VIP Member
She was a terrible mum. Lots of people in socially deprived situation, being vulnerable and with educational needs don’t go on to have murdered and neglected babies. Sorry but this baby was failed massively by her mum.
Once more, for those at the back:

No one is saying she wasn’t! But it’s not all black and white and for a fair trial to go ahead all of this has to be taken into account. People here are merely discussing it and trying to make sense of it.
 
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RubyCoco

Member
An alleged rapist who told blatant lies on the stand and a girl who drank tea with SB and testified that FS was mardy a couple of times… that’s it, that’s the whole defence they could cobble together for someone on trial for murdering a toddler?! Jesus wept 🙈🤣
 
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luxiegirl

Member
Hello,
I’m pretty new to tattle but I’ve been reading this thread with no account for about a week now. It was so refreshing compared to Facebook because everyone has really healthy discussions and insights to a really upsetting trial. There’s also been no bias and everyone (so far) has expressed really interesting thoughts and feelings while the days have gone on. It’s also allowed people to open up about their own experiences when it comes to DV and abuse which is very positive as we as a society try to encourage people to speak up.
anyway the point I’m getting at is if you have joined this group from Facebook I recommend going over the old threads if you can dig them out and trying to read as much as possible because there’s much better non-bias, respectful discussion that’s gone on here than in trusting evil and other pages. This forum has been a positive space to read and reflect on a really nasty event and I personally would like to keep it that way!
 
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PinkMariner

Chatty Member
I am not defending her actions at all, but I have been in a DV Relationship and you lose all sense or morality. I knew what was happening to me was wrong, I just kind of accepted it as my life now - I was told I deserved it and after a relatively short space of time I believed it. It came to a head one day with a potentially catastrophic incident and it was like a fog cleared and something snapped and I realised what was happening to me. Sadly, it seems that for FS her "lightbulb moment" has come far, far too late. I hope she now goes on to be totally honest, takes her punishment for her lack of parental responsibility and does the best she can for her daughter's memory.
 
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