Savanna Brockhill & Frankie Smith #10

[Stiltoncheese]

3. SB's own slip ups in evidence, trying to be very cool and measured. During her evidence she slipped a couple of times, grinning at me, answering Mr MacDonald.

During my cross-ex, she said 'if I used such power in a punch Star would be dead or seriously ill and you've seen me move a 50kg bag. Star was only 8kg'. I'm sure you remember that bizarre and boastful declaration.

Even more curious was when she said, 'the day Star died she had one blow'. That's not what the medical evidence said, it said blow or blows. Why was she so sure Star was only hit with one blow? Is it because she's the one who inflicted it?



I'm glad this was finally mentioned too. I always felt it was a slip up and never understood why AM didn't jump on it.

 

[PinkMariner]

Are you aware of what you are saying? You are bored because you don’t have a babys murder trial to keep you occupied?

Get a grip of yourself Candy - you troll this thread relentlessly.

Read back to last Monday, when I said I was so affected by it I had taken a weekend away from it. I won't justify myself to you. If you had a brain, you'd be dangerous!

 

[PinkMariner]

PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT - If I ever get charged with some shit I haven't done, I want Mr Ali on my side. No one else will do!

 

[LittleMy]

My comment about us all being civil in here didn’t age well, did it?

 

[elikayute]

I’m back to feeling sad for FS again today. Terrible as she was, I don’t think she knew Star would be seriously harmed or die.

 

[elikayute]

It isn’t ZAs job to prove FSs innocence. It’s AMs job to prove beyond all reasonable doubt that she’s guilty. I personally don’t think the average Joe can fully comprehend what being a DV victim can do to some people, coupled with the low IQ and high compliance, therefore I think she will be found guilty of c&a but I don’t think she is guilty of it and certainly not beyond all reasonable doubt.

 

[Bekika]

My DIL who is a social worker just shared this with me
Sharing this as its spot on and people should know the facts...

Before you blame social workers for children's deaths, there is only 2 people that can remove a child a COURT JUDGE and a POLICE OFFICER... not a social worker! You can show a social worker a picture of a bruise all you want but if a doctor is not prepared to say someone caused it and it is not accidental what can a social worker do?

Did you know only when a doctor confims an injury none accidental can police and social workers act on that information? Did you know some doctors will not even see a child if they are happy with a picture that the injury appears accidental? Did you know there is no shared system between one department to the next never mind between professionals? So how can information be fully shared without human error and they have to call the general number like everyone else

Do you know parents can be good liars and decieve all those around them including family..Children are also taught to lie despite what happens to them to schools and other professionals and despite what that child is going through, they will cover for parents because the consequences of telling the truth are far worse. Children are taught the care system is a scary place by society so why would they speak out?

Yes you get rubbish professionals who fail but the parents are to blame!!

Do you know social workers when they do remove children can be out all night taking part in a number of important roles and they do so unpaid? Their own child care not taken into account and not seeing their own families because they are out helping others... they are not paid for this?

Did you know that they sometimes pay out their own pocket to buy kids clothing and food. Did you know police and social workers are sometimes sat with families late at night in offices trying to find somewhere for children safe to go and sometimes their parents because there is a lack of housing and foster homes! These kind of things are never taken into consideration when there's a tragedy

 

[PinkMariner]

No, sorry, not being able to drive is not an excuse to not get medical help for your child.

I can’t drive and I have a young child.

My doctors is a 45 minute walk to get there - I still walk it.
She also had Anita, David, Alicia, Holly and I’m sure other friends and family who would have been more than willing to help her - I’m sure if she really couldn’t be bothered they would have taken Star themselves if it meant her getting medical attention.

She could quite easily get out to go shopping if she wanted to, or go to the pub… so I think she could get to the doctors if she needed to.
If you were worried about your child you would go and seek the medical attention they need - even if that means a 3 hour walk or getting the bus.

Not driving may be an in inconvenience sometimes - it’s not an excuse to not seek medical attention.

Playing Devils Advocate here -

It's the middle of a pandemic, Drs aren't easily seeing patients face to face, everyone around you is telling you it is nothing to worry about or not serious. Would you still move hell and high water to get there if you were less than intelligent and everyone was telling you it wasn't a big deal?

 

[elikayute]

We are going to need a secretly titled thread for the thread originals when the verdict comes out

 

[Ibrokethegoddamnwheel]

@Lucyxxxx @bluecups here I don’t know how reliable it is but here’s hoping. It’s true

My reaction if this is true:

 

[Ibrokethegoddamnwheel]

Why is it that when the sun goes down, things start getting weird on this thread? We all have different opinions and viewpoints particularly when it comes to FS, most of the time people are able to discuss things rationally but there’s always one or two who take things too far. There’s absolutely no need to get personal with it by questioning peoples ‘sanity’ (earlier in the thread) and implying those who have a different view must have a low iq. This is the kind of shite I’d expect to read on the Facebook groups.

The sooner the verdicts are in the better. I don’t envy the jury at all because despite what some people think, when it comes to FS it really isn’t straight forward.

 

[Prissypaws]

The Facebook group

 

[elikayute]

The thing I find staggering is that as late as Sept 4th, a social worker went to FSs flat and saw Star, and not only concluded all was well, but told FS that her family were being malicious.
If a social worker, who is trained to look for signs of abuse, couldn’t see anything wrong, how obvious were the signs? That was only days after the “is it makeup” bruises and the torn upper frenulum. We know SB explained away the injuries to FS, so if if a professionally trained social worker believed the explanations, why wouldn’t FS believe them too?

On other cases I’ve read about causing or allowing, the abusive partner had violent convictions, or social services had said the abusive partner wasn’t allowed to have contact, or it was undisputed that the allowing partner had witnessed a violent attack previously.

 

[elikayute]

I just read something that said the average social worker has a caseload of 37 when the recommended number is 18. No wonder cases like this and Star’s happen.
It boggles my mind that what is fought for is longer sentences and not more investment for prevention.

 

[elikayute]

I think they’re going to have issues proving murder beyond reasonable doubt for FS (and potentially even SB), but there’s no way in hell any semi sane person who’s heard all the evidence could possibly think she’s not guilty of causing or allowing, it seems like a waste of ZA’s time to even suggest as much.

I’m fully sane and I’d find her not guilty on both counts. But then I do a lot of work with victims of emotional abuse, so I can understand the dynamics very clearly. I don’t have faith that the jury will see things the same way as me.

 

[Kinney]

Great analogy and I was really impressed with ZA the whole way through that. He didn’t need to waffle on, he stuck to the facts and it was really effective.

 

[avabella]

In my opinion it's not that easy to be swayed - that's why these people are so very clever and need very good arguments for their prosecution/defence.

I've never been swayed. I've always been 100% that SB killed Star. Yes FS was a shit mother but she didn't kill her, nor allow it.

 

[Buy.this.tat]

Long time reader of this thread.Saw this today, another sad case very similar sounding to this and Arthur’s.

 

[elikayute]

Good heavens what happened in here?!

For those who say FS has no mothering instinct, how do you explain the first 5/6 months of Star’s life where Yvonne, Alicia, Anita, David all spoke positively about FS as a mother, albeit that she needed some support (as I’m sure many mothers young or old would happily accept if it was offered on tap). That’s what I don’t get - she had a good bond with Star, a close and loving relationship evidence by family and professionals, how did it go from that to this.

Also, it needs to be “alleged baby killer” or it’s contempt of court

 

[PinkMariner]

I know I will be in a minority here, I know I will get jumped on, but I am just not comfortable with wishing other people the same harm as came to Star. I am not comfortable with promoting any violence to anyone. Maybe I am too soft, but it makes me feel a bit icky.