Sali Hughes #19 When Harry met Sali (I'll have what she's having)

[Aude]

Tbh, I find her whole response to here weird.

In pursuit of her career as an influencer, she puts content online - including her image, her opinion and information about herself and her private life - and we comment on it between ourselves. She also writes a short weekly article for the Guardian and ocasional other journalism which we also comment on.

Our comments are mostly critical because there is no other outlet for criticism of influencers. Sometimes our comment and criticism is about something completely trivial, sometimes it's about something really important. There's serious criticism and jokey piss-taking. Some of us are pretty detail oriented and pick up on small inconsistencies which we feel cast doubt on her integrity and reliability.

Often a discussion here might be prompted by something directly related to SH and then broaden out more generally - whether about influencers more generally or about our individual skincare routines. Sometimes it's absolutely nothing to do with her - sharing advice and experience about products for example and providing support.

If that's a fair summing up, what about that is 'bullying'?

ETA: We are small group. She has well over 100k social media followers and a platform in a national newspaper.

When I was trying to summarise the content of this forum I forgot to include one important element that drives discusion here - our response to her attempts to silence us.

To recap... Her initial strategy seemed to be to try to intimidate people individually. It was around the middle of thread #3 that people here started noticing that she or her assistant or a known friend (CM) were 'stalking' them around their social media. A number of people said they felt intimidated by it, one said she was leaving the forum because of it. By SH's own admission, her intention had been to show them they had been seen. By her own admission, she had pried into the lives of people here to the extent that she knew where they lived.

It was after people tried to bring attention to this behaviour that she tried what seemed to be a new strategy - to mobilise her thousands of social media followers and well-connected contacts to get the whole site shut down. This was the Friday video. She did get an enormous amount of sympathy from followers and also public support from well-known figures who themselves have huge followings. Some, such as Nigella Lawson and Marina Hyde, just tweeted support. Others, such as India Knight, piled on with abuse and what could be taken as intimidation.

Others reacted differently. I hadn't heard of Tattle and was curious to know what this 'bullying' was that she was talking about. I came here in the middle of thread #3 and, finding it different from the way she had described it, went back and read from the beginning. I thought the criticism in a few posts was unkind but I thought it was mostly reasonable comment about valid concerns. In reading through I looked specifically for the type of content, and the specific instances, SH had described in her video and couldn't find it.

Up till then I'd found SH a bit irritating and perhaps not quite living up to her 'honesty' USP but hadn't thought about it much. I was now outraged by her attempt to use the power and influence of her hundreds of thousands of followers to close this down, a small discussion forum with - at the time - maybe 30 members. It seemed as if, having pretty well shut down criticism and dissent in her own social media, she was now seeking to shut it down across the entire internet. Part of my reason for joining here was to show solidarity with this oppressed minority! There are all sorts of other reasons why I stay but that is still part of it.

Her current strategy seems to be to mention the 'hate site', 'internet weirdos' and, most charmingly, 'arseholes' whenever she has a public platform - shamelessly misrepresenting it as 'lies' and 'conspiracy theories'.

Clearly, the more she does, the more content she provides for discussion here.

 

[Aude]

I listened to the interview. JG asked her if she'd mind talking about her IG video of last year. SH said the same as she always does: it's all lies and 'conspiracy theories' and every small thing being dissected.

She's right of course about the last but it's simply not true that there are lies and conspiracy theories. I've said it here before: I've read all c 18,000 posts on the SH threads and I don't think there's been a single instance of a lie or a 'conspiracy theory'. I think, at worst, there have been a couple of instances where a couple of posters incorrectly assumed she was given something free or had been paid to promote a particular product - hardly surprising given the grey area in which she operates.

She also said, as she always does, that it's incredibly upsetting for herself and her family and friends and she doesn't understand how people can carry on doing it when they know how upsetting it is.

She said she was making a 'documentary' about it for Radio 4. This was because her way of dealing with upsetting things was to research deeply into them. Incredible! From the person who - by her own admission - has not even read the thing she complains about.

I'll call it now. The 'documentary' will be a) her own experience at length, b) a couple of interviews with other influencers who have done similar teary videos about being 'trolled' and 'bullied' on Tattle and c) an interview with an exTattler who now bitterly regrets her past conduct which was entirely motivated by jealousy.

What it will not be is any enquiry into the influencer industry, how it's designed to manipulate people, how it drives people into debt, how people feel when they realise they've been manipulated, what impact it has on an influencer to be told daily how wonderful they are by hundreds of strangers, how influencers justify being in that line of business, how ASA rules are being flaunted, how it's driven commentary and criticism underground to places such as Tattle. Etc.

 

[Sheeeet]

This place has opened my eyes, so thank you all. Lockdown did me a favour - so much time that we don't normally have to read and think!

After a few weeks of unfollowing SH and Hirons, I don't give them clicks and won't be following any other skincare or beauty 'experts'. It feels like a detox - I'm sick of being sold to, lied to and patronised, and I won't be convinced that some expensive gadget or serum will change my life, or make any material difference to my happiness. No shade to anyone that wants to buy into the beauty market, but I'm done. I've got my cleanser, moisturiser and spf, and as long as they keep my skin comfortable, I'll stick with them.

I'm finished being a punter and having my femininity being covertly criticised to erode my self esteem and get me to part from my wages.

The threads here, Hinch especially, really bring into stark contrast what a crock of shit we're sold as women. People are desperate for connection and approval, to be part of an army or hashtag, becuase modern capitalism is so isolating and alienating. These people, their agents and marketers exploit loneliness and self doubt for money, status and fame.

I didn't start meaning to turn this into a rant, but I want to thank everyone who has repeatedly pointed out the difference between what these influencers want us to read and accept unquestioningly and the money, inconsistencies, nastiness and toxicity behind it.

 

[Sheeeet]

Probably an unpopular or old fashioned opinion, but I think it takes a certain amount of narcissism or self-unawareness to post regular selfies, to write about one's life, family and sex life, reveal oneself (unintentionally to some degree) and still expect the world to hold the same impression you want others to hold of you. To my mind, IK holds this in SPADES, really an archetype of this group.

There's something about being an opinion writer, you have to be certain that not only is your story or opinion so important that the world/readership must hear it but that it's also worth a(n inflated) salary.

As an introvert, this extrinsic motivation/validation is absolutely alien. I read somewhere a good while ago that those of us on internet forums are mostly introverts, so we choose to remain anonymous when others (Twitterati) can't fathom it or think it should be outlawed. But then, as introverts, we're not seeking external validation in the same way and don't expect to be paid for what we write in terms of money or reputation.

One can't put these personal stories on the public sphere, on a medium that never forgets and not expect the public to have receipts and, in some cases form an undesirable opinion based on them.

 

[Tesla's Ghost]

I've said this before, I own every post and bitchy remark about her, the Peloton video, her hilarious commercial with the sea, the poetic license (olfactory onanism etc.) in her repetitive column. Didn't say, or can't remember, (please prove me otherwise, I'll own up to everything) much about her physical appearance, unless it's taking the piss of the message on her sweater (I think it's liberalism, literature, lipstick, how can you not?!) or her sometimes dubious application of under eye concealer. Whatever she posts on a public platform is meant for public consumption. If I was ever out of line, please, let me know. Mainly for our sake, not hers or mine (especially not mine). This is a gossip forum, not an FBI unit dealing with non disclosed adds filing reports in a bureaucratic jargon.

We all have a choice, as does she, to read here or not.

 

[Tesla's Ghost]

First on the list

 

[Tesla's Ghost]

Did she call us “mad arseholes” on the BBC??!

Someone who is pals with Eric Joyce can call me whatever they want, their opinion on pretty much anything is meaningless.

 

[SqualorVictoria]

So women from all walks of life are telling you something? Maybe listen to them instead of dismissing them as trolls?

Oh and setting your friends violent *weirdo* boyfriend on us and telling him you literally know where we live, that to me is more in line with school behaviour

 

[Aude]

There was a comment the other day about Boris Johnson at PMQs that I thought was appropriate here:

'The thin-skinned, unprepared opportunist who cannot tolerate a word of scrutiny or criticism. It’s like dealing with a toddler. If you’re not 100% behind him, saying how marvellous he is, then you are totally against him. There are no in betweens. In terms of emotional development, Boris is barely out of nappies.'

 

[Jade Mitzi]

She does want it both ways though does Sali. She wants to write the pieces/posts about tits, maintenance shags, Christmas without kids, other people's writing, hating workouts, Peloton workouts etc etc but doesn't want anyone to have any differing opinion or point out her U-turns.

This place, Tattle, is where we come to air our thoughts on all these things. No, I don't stalk her on social media platforms wanting to argue or confront her but I do like posting here to either disagree with what she has posted, shake my head at how crap her columns are, or take the piss out of the more ludicrous posts. I am quite comfortable in my skin doing that, I am doing NOTHING wrong. If there is something more sinister going on that she is referring to she needs to separate the two.

She absolutely reads here, why I have no idea. I know if our roles were reversed I wouldn't give a crap who was saying shit about me at any time, let alone when I was on my family holiday #PAID FOR.

 

[rosemarina]

I'm gutted not to feature in that list, not like that naughty MOTHER OF FIVE.

 

[zcfthc5]

ooh. Interesting. Does one have to do it daily? Too many steps in my routine already.


Ugh. Let's add it to the loong list of reasons I need to start moving my body a bit more.

you misspelt loving

 

[Disillusioned]

Her Insta page is not from someone wanting to maintain her privacy.

From the champagne cork on her toe during her lockdown piss up to the excruciating Peleton story, she’s invading her own privacy if anything.

The Peleton Panting of a Pretty Private Person...

 

[SqualorVictoria]

I think influencers need to remember this site is about them, not for them.

 

[Rosie878]

Support the decent people?
Like convicted paedophiles and their supportive partners?

 

[Jade Mitzi]

I don't mean to be bitchy but posting an IG live video talking about oneself is not really the same as working. It does annoy me a bit when influencers post content of themselves and call it "work".

Honestly don’t think this is in any way bitchy. What you say is a fact. Posting a video about yourself is not work, unless you are perhaps explaining life saving techniques for resuscitation or something similar. This instance, and most on IG are just vanity pieces.

I don’t think that here on Tattle we should worry if comments are perceived as bitchy. You don’t need to tread on eggshells here or self edit.

If Sali and her staff want to come and forage in Tattle for stuff to be aggrieved about, let them knock themselves out. This is my comfy corner of the internet and I am not going to worry about something I say offending her. I don’t do it on her posts, I do it here. She (they) come here to read, through choice. So unless @Yel or someone steps in here to say I or we have crossed a line, it will be business as usual from me.

 

[Aude]

I'm confused. Is slagging someone off on a public platform bullying? When it's not being done to provoke a reaction, upset them or get some leverage? I not going to say my postings here have been my proudest moments or finest hours but I still don't see how it's bullying.

Tbh, I find her whole response to here weird.

In pursuit of her career as an influencer, she puts content online - including her image, her opinion and information about herself and her private life - and we comment on it between ourselves. She also writes a short weekly article for the Guardian and ocasional other journalism which we also comment on.

Our comments are mostly critical because there is no other outlet for criticism of influencers. Sometimes our comment and criticism is about something completely trivial, sometimes it's about something really important. There's serious criticism and jokey piss-taking. Some of us are pretty detail oriented and pick up on small inconsistencies which we feel cast doubt on her integrity and reliability.

Often a discussion here might be prompted by something directly related to SH and then broaden out more generally - whether about influencers more generally or about our individual skincare routines. Sometimes it's absolutely nothing to do with her - sharing advice and experience about products for example and providing support.

If that's a fair summing up, what about that is 'bullying'?

ETA: We are small group. She has well over 100k social media followers and a platform in a national newspaper.

 

[Shineyshine]

I’ve just been sitting back reading all your amazing thoughtful comments, and taking it all in. I was about to come in and make the same point as @Raindropsonkittens made brilliantly just a few minutes ago. Let’s not forget that Sali has a documentary on bullying coming out shortly and therefore by her stirring up a bit of a story now, whereby her holiday is spoiled by hateful online bullies, would be just perfect. Call me cynical, but I can’t help it.

Also, before we all beat ourselves up about Tattle, let’s not forget where the balance of power lies in this ‘relationship’. Sali has it all. She can say what she likes and, for the most part, will be believed. We, on the other hand, have our little gossip forum where we can point out all her untruths, hypocrisy, misdoings etc, but where does that information go? What redress is there? When is she ever held to account?

Having a discussion about an influencer on Tattle is not bullying. As previously stated, we’re talking about them, not to them. Now, if somebody has gone on Twitter and directly sent abuse to Sali, then that’s a different story, but that’s on the individual, nothing to do with Tattle or any of us having a chat here.

 

[rosemarina]

There’s a definite fetishisation of being very white, isn’t there?

 

[Lemsipmax]

WTF does this mean? So if they were childless shop workers / other "low" skill workers....then what....that would be expected behaviour of the likes of those...but the horror of being criticized by the "middle" class mothers....vapours...

Your massive snobbery is showing, love...