Refusing the Covid 19 Vaccine #3 & general vaccine conversation

[Savannah_xx]

Long post alert lol...This is a real convo someone had.


Just incase anyones confused!!

ME: UK gov, should I get vaccinated if I already had Covid?

UK gov: “Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had C0VID-19. That’s because experts do not yet know how long you are protected from getting sick again after recovering from C0VID-19.”

ME: Oh, okay, we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts. Got it. So, how long does vaccine-induced immunity last?

Uk gov: “There is still a lot we are learning about C0VID-l9 vaccines and we are constantly reviewing evidence and updating guidance. We don’t know how long protection lasts for those who are vaccinated.”

Me: Okay … but wait a second. I thought you said the reason I need the vaccine was because we don’t know how long my natural immunity lasts, but it seems like you’re saying we ALSO don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts either. So, how exactly is the vaccine immunity better than my natural immunity?

UK gov: …

Me: Uh … alright. But, haven’t there been a bunch of studies suggesting that natural immunity could last for years or decades?

UK gov: Yes. Years, maybe even decades, according to a new study.

ME: Ah. So natural immunity might last longer than vaccine immunity?

Uk gov: Possibly. You never know.

ME: Okay. If I get the vaccine, does that mean I won’t get sick?

Uk gov: Nope. We are just now entering a seasonal spike and about half of our infections and hospital admissions are vaccinated people.

ME: is this true? Are there a lot of people in the U.K. catching Covid after getting the jab?

David Javid: Over 60%

ME: Oh, okay. Hmm. Well, if I can still get sick after I get the vaccine, how is it helping me?

Uk gov: We never said you wouldn’t get sick. We said it would reduce your chances of serious illness or death.

ME: Oh, sorry. Alright, exactly how much does it reduce my chance of serious illness or death.

Uk gov: We don’t know “exactly, we think we've saved over 50,000 lives, but we haven't got any evidence of this.

ME: Oh. Then what’s your best estimate for how much risk reduction there is?

Uk gov: We don’t know, okay? Next question.

ME: Um, if I’m healthy and don’t want the vaccine, is there any reason I should get it?

Uk gov: Yes, for the collective and to be allowed to dance at a night club (for now)

ME: How does the collective benefit from me getting vaccinated?

Uk gov: Because you could spread the virus to someone else who might get sick and die.

ME: Can a vaccinated person spread the virus to someone else?

Uk gov: Yes.

ME: So if I get vaccinated, I could still spread the virus to someone else?

Uk gov: Yes.

ME: But I thought you just said, the REASON I should get vaccinated was to prevent me spreading the virus? How does that make sense if I can still catch Covid and spread it after getting the vaccine?

Uk gov: Never mind that. The other thing is, if you stay unvaccinated, there’s a chance the virus could possibly mutate into a strain that escapes the vaccine’s protection, putting all vaccinated people at risk.

ME: So the vaccine stops the virus from mutating?

Uk gov: No.

ME: So it can still mutate in vaccinated people?

Uk gov: Yes.

ME: Sorry but this seems confusing. If the vaccine doesn’t stop mutations, and it doesn’t stop infections, then how does me getting vaccinated help prevent a more deadly strain from evolving to escape the vaccine?

Uk gov: You aren’t listening, okay? The bottom line is: as long as you are unvaccinated, you pose a threat to vaccinated people.

ME: But what KIND of threat??

Uk gov: The threat that they could get a serious case of Covid and possibly die.

ME: My brain hurts. Didn’t you JUST say that the vaccine doesn’t keep people from catching Covid, but prevents a serious case or dying? Now it seems like you’re saying vaccinated people can still easily die from Covid even after they got the vaccine just by running into an unvaccinated person! Which is it??

Uk gov: Your just obviously an anti-vaxxer!

ME: Wait! I just want to make sure I understand all this. So, even if I ALREADY had Covid, I should STILL get vaccinated, because we don’t know how long natural immunity lasts, and we also don’t know how long vaccine immunity lasts. And I should get the vaccine to keep a vaccinated person from catching Covid from me, but even if I get the vaccine, I can give it to the vaccinated person anyways. And, the other vaccinated person can still easily catch a serious case of Covid from me and die. Do I have all that right?"

Logical thinking is now a fringe activity.

 

[Notgonnalie]

I’ve just got talking to family in NI and my cousin has just had heart failure his hearts only functioning at 15% and the consultant has said they are confident it’s linked to his second covid jab.

Please can you all pray for my cousin. Whether you have or haven’t had the jab this isn’t with the intention of scare mongering this is just real life. My cousin was in full health before getting the vaccine and only got it to go on holiday. He’s now looking at needing a pacemaker if he makes it. The consultant said it’s rare this has happened to him so I hope I don’t scare anyone who has had it or made the decision to get it, I’m just sharing the side that’s rarely shown.

 

[Notgonnalie]

I've had my two jabs and so has my whole family. To be honest I'm quite annoyed at people who refuse the jab because of non-medical reasons, and reading these threads is frustrating to me... Obvi I wont argue with anybody on here but according to science or whatever we need what, 85% of people vaxxed to reach herd immunity but vaccinations are tapering off at 60-70% and cases are going up.. I just don't see why you would refuse to get it and deprive everybody else of their herd immunity as well...

Herd immunity isn’t only based on vaccines, you can gain immunity from having natural exposure to the infection. 9 in 10 adults in the U.K. have antibodies so this shows many of the population have been exposed to the virus whether through natural exposure or through vaccination. It shouldn’t annoy you what someone else’s chooses to do which is best for them in their circumstances I’m sure no one is annoyed at you for choosing to vaccinate yourself

 

[ThirdWorldGlam]

Hello all, first time posting on this thread, I joined quite recently Tattle.

I've had Covid quite badly, in March 2020, first wave, before masks and lockdowns. I've had long covid and well, I still have some symptoms. I was young/healthy before this and sadly I know a lot of cases of long covid like that. At the moment, I still have things like chronic chest pain and food intolerances. Weird fatigue. Not fun.

Now, this jab doesn't prevent long covid. We have zero (zero) data on that. The trials didn't include neither how the jab affects people with long covid.

On the top of that, now it seems that we are pushing vaccine passports for a vaccine that doesn't prevent the spread neither.

The UK is the biggest example ever. And no, you can't blame only the unvaccinated for the 200k cases we had last week. I mean...

I am unvaccinated and cautious as I don't want to catch it again. But double jabbed people that think that the pandemic ended with the vaccine? I know quite a few.

I had Covid badly and I don't support this vaccine because it doesn't fit its purpose. Yes, it helps to reduce hospitalizations, but chances of being hospitalized as a 20 or 30 something years old were already low.

If this vaccine doesn't prevent the lingering fatigue of long covid (that let me tell you, it's no joke, I was bed bound) and it doesn't prevent the spread, what the F are we doing as a society?

This vaccine is perfect for people from the 60+ years old demographic. That's it.

We are allowing vaccinated folks to think they don't spread the virus and that they're not at risk when in reality they're spreading it and some of them are at the hospital already. What?

Sorry dear government, I need to see the evidence of how this jab isn't going to fuck my already fucked immune system. The ONLY doctor (private, NHS hasn't helped at all) that helped me to recover from Long Covid, recommended me NOT to have it.
She's seen severe bad reactions from long covid patients. In general, people that already had Covid, shouldn't have 2 jabs at all: https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n308

It seems that there's a pattern of people that had Covid and got bad reactions from the vaccine later. Who's researching or pointing that out in the media? Nobody. Scary times.

Don't let me start about the changes on periods after the jab!

I just don't know when we woke up into this dystopian nightmare where people are going to get vaccinated in exchange for a burger so they can go to the club. Freacking hell.

That being said, I respect people making their own mind and having all the vaccinations and boosters as they wish. What I don't support is a fascist worldwide regime that asks you your medical data so you can go to a Museum. Wow.

 

[Podular]

The sports minister was on the radio the other day about crowds being "allowed" back to football but only if double Vax.
First host said to him "I'm double vaccinated but what about people who for medical, religious or other reasons aren't, surely a test is the way forward for them. Also safer as it's been proven you could still have covid if double vaccinated."
Minister replied with a 3 minute speech of "the ONLY way forward is for EVERYONE to get vaccinated for themselves and others" and repeat.
Second host tried again by saying "I'm also double vaccinated but what about season ticket holders whose whole life is football but for whatever reason just DON'T WANT the vaccine, surely offering them the chance to show they are clear of the virus through a test is the only fair thing to do".
Cue another 3 minutes of " the only fair thing to do is for everyone to get vaccinated for themselves and others." And repeat.
No sensible answer or arguement even. Doesn't make any sense.
Horrible agenda

 

[Wokewank]

I am so sick of people who don't want the vaccine being called anti vaxxers or CTS!! Most people on this thread appear to be lovely sane people who look after their health in their own ways. And I'm speaking for most here when I say we do not care whether others have the jab or not. Freedom of choice. Sick of the bs, scaremongering, propaganda, censorship and lecturing.

 

[hattie22]

Hi, not posted on this thread before but have been on tattle a while.

I haven’t read the whole thread but I was wondering if anyone else was suffering with after effect of a vaccine?

I didn’t want one at all but I was pushed into it as I wanted (well, needed) to go back to work.

I had AZ. Crippling headache followed. Went to A&E and had all tests. CT scans. Small clot found, blood thinners and the headache still persists weeks on. Been back to the hosptal a few times, finally on a mixture of medications that dulls the pain in my head (repeat d dimers too - gone from throug the roof to normal which is hugely reassuring), all bloods are normal now.

My vision is markedly worse since as well.

Been referred onto neurology and headache/pain management clinic.

I will not be having a second (it’s not been spoken about by drs i’ve seen, apart from when I said I wouldn’t have a second and a consultant just said “I don’t blame you”). I had this one because i’d applied for countless jobs, not even an interview so had no choice but to go back to care work. We’ve decided to downsize where we rent, squeeze into a smaller house. It’s not worth my health.

Anyway, so I’m left in this awful pain, in and out of hospital. All for something I didn’t want. I’ve been so stupid and I’ve got no one to speak to about it.

Everyone I know is so pro vaccine.

 

[moimoi]

I haven’t been jabbed. I was pregnant for the first half of the year when it went from ‘it’s advised for pregnant women not to get the jab’ then ‘get it at your own risk’ to now ‘pregnant women must get the jab’, so didn’t fill me with a load of confidence!

I’m not antivaccines as I had the whooping cough vaccine when I was pregnant and my baby has been getting his jabs.

I keep getting texts, calls and voicemails from my local council telling me to arrange an appointment for my vaccine, it’s so bloody annoying!

I don’t plan on getting the vaccine any time soon as I’m breastfeeding and I’ve read about the vaccine messing with women’s periods which worries me. My periods haven’t come back since giving birth yet and your first period after giving birth is supposed to be really heavy and I don’t want the vaccine to make that even worse. And just the thought of it messing with your reproductive system scares me.

I just can’t stand the fearmongering from the media, government, friends, etc It’s becoming so aggressive and quite frankly I do have my tinfoil hat on as I think it’s insane how hard they’re pushing it (especially now with kids and no parental consent!!) I daren’t tell my friends that I’m not vaxxed because as ‘tolerable’ as they all are, this whole thing has made them act like twats. The Instagram photos of their double jabbed cards acting like they’re holier than thou is honestly so cringe.

I don’t know what the point of this is, but just wanted to vent and glad there’s similar minded people.

 

[Mbouzer]

They are trying to turn everyone against those who are not taking the vaccine. A very good (now ex) friend of mine the other day posted "Shame on you" This friend has known me my whole life and know how much I do for others they also know I have been a vaccine sceptic for many years and never had a problem with it before now.



This is a post on a group I am in.

Nurses Advocating For Medical Freedom


I just need to vent a little. I work in a busy, urban ER where we have seen many COVID patients, both vaccinated and unvaccinated being admitted.
For starters, I have decided not to get the COVID vax. Only a very few of my coworkers are aware of this, and most, if not all were also suspicious and initially said there was no way they would get it. Time went on, and sure enough, everyone lined up and got the jab, as I knew they would. The other day, a discussion was being held about hospitals going on diversion as a result of nurses refusing mandated vaccination. My “friend,” who was also charge nurse that day, turned towards me and LOUDLY said, “you’re anti-vax, aren’t you Jess?” You could’ve heard a pin drop. They all stared and suddenly I found myself confronted by challenging questions and accusations. I have literally heard my coworkers repeat over and over that people who choose not to be vaccinated DESERVE TO DIE.
I am incredibly depressed. I cannot shake the feeling of that moment where I went from a respected, veteran nurse, to an absolute crackpot with ZERO credibility or respect from my “friends.” I’m despondent and so ready to leave nursing entirely. If I didn’t need to feed my family, I would gladly put in my two week’s notice. Anyone else experience this level of rejection? Am I ridiculous for feeling this sense of loss and hurt?


Another post from a friend of mine



Earlier today, spurred by a FB friend's post, I read a NY Times piece "explaining" why "we" should be more understanding of the "vax hesitant." It turns out that, according to the deep wisdom of the mighty NYT, those of us who have said a firm and resounding (and repeated!) NO to this vax-that-ain't-a-vax have done so because:
1. we're poor (<$75K/year income) ... or because
2. we have so many kids and crap part-time jobs that we're just too busy ... or because
3. we can't afford the cost of bus fare to get us to the vax clinic and would likely have to go without a meal to do so. Or maybe it's
4. simply because "we" as a society have made it an Us vs Them fight, as we are doing with everything these days. That's it, we aren't being KIND enough to each other, that's all!
But lo, there is hope! According to the NYT, once the wise and mighty pro-vaxxers patiently EXPLAIN to us ignorant holdouts all the wonderful benefits of filling our bodies with genetic poison that will destroy our immune systems and possibly induce blood clots and death, we will BEG for it! The article actually suggested that the pro-vaxxies simply need to have a chat with us, maybe prime us with a free meal and help us carve out some time in our busy schedules of brats/crap jobs/etc, then treat us to an Uber so that we can hustle our fannies down to the vax emporium and get filled up right quick, then buy a couple days off from our crap jobs to "recover" from the jab! (Since WHEN has anyone had to recover from a legitimate, safe vaccine ... ?)
Honestly, now I understand why people hate liberals, of which I used to count myself as one. It's the condescending "we know what's good for you, you poor ignorant slob, so just shut up and do what we say" of it all that makes me want to punch a wall. The constant drumbeats of fear didn't work, so now they're going to kill us with kindness, empathy, and understanding. But GUESS WHAT, vaxxie peeps: Many of us -- MOST of us -- have researched and debated and thought about this subject long and hard. We're not stupid, and even if poor, we're not necessarily uneducated. We're not "avoiding" the vax because we can't pay for an Uber down to the vax station -- it's our CHOICE not to do it because IT'S NUTS and we value our health more than the pushers value our health! It's a medical CHOICE; I thought you liberals were all into that! And before you pull out that tired old "but the good of the community!" whine, how many times must it be said: The vax does not confer immunity nor does it stop people from passing on the virus! AAARGH!!!
God, hours later after reading that, and I'm still so pissed off about it ... I've just fucking had it. Off to try to calm down. Peace out, peeps.

This is what really gets me with these people. They claim to care for society so much, yano getting the vax to protect everyone, look at the great person I am!! But then in the next breath they think it’s perfectly acceptable to wish death upon people who would rather not take a vaccine or who simply can’t.

Everything that has happened over these last few months has made me generally hate most people in society, what people have become. I just can’t believe how easily people can turn on one another. You look at Nazi Germany and think bloody hell how did they manage that? Convincing people another section of society deserved to die or be segregated from society just because the propaganda machine told them so and this is exactly what is happening now. The thing is when you make this comparison most people get all offended and refuse to see the similarities but they are there literally clear as day. We are literally in world war three right now it’s biological and psychological warfare so people are completely oblivious.

 

[monga]

I’ve just got talking to family in NI and my cousin has just had heart failure his hearts only functioning at 15% and the consultant has said they are confident it’s linked to his second covid jab.

Please can you all pray for my cousin. Whether you have or haven’t had the jab this isn’t with the intention of scare mongering this is just real life. My cousin was in full health before getting the vaccine and only got it to go on holiday. He’s now looking at needing a pacemaker if he makes it. The consultant said it’s rare this has happened to him so I hope I don’t scare anyone who has had it or made the decision to get it, I’m just sharing the side that’s rarely shown.

I hope he makes a full recovery My BIL ended up in hospital for a week after his second jab his heartrate was badly elevated they couldn’t bring it down he went to A&E thinking he had an ear infection as he had a funny sensation in his ears and a high temp only to be rushed through to resuss it was the blood gushing through his body he heard not an ear infection at all… ironically he’s had covid before and all he suffered was a scratchy throat for a couple of days.

 

[Tricham]

I'm currently nearly 18 weeks pregnant and have covid, after refusing the vaccine. I think it is day 6 for me, as I first felt like I was 'coming down with something' on Friday 20th august (but LFT said negative that day). Anyway, for sure I've had it at least 3 days as that's when I did eventually get my positive LFT. Result from PCR came through positive this morning.

Considering all the scaremongering aimed towards pregnant women currently, I was scared of catching Covid (but not enough to risk a vaccine still on trial). The mild symptoms I have had, have made me realise I made the right decision for me. I have a slightly congested nose and have lost my sense of smell. I feel like I'm now improving, as I'm becoming less sniffly. No way would I have risked the vaccine had I known it would be milder than my common colds! So glad I made the decision I did now.

 

[Piff paff puff]

I mean at this point we don't know, I'm just saying that the figure i've heard most often is 85% vaccination rate should be able to stop the spread but nowhere has reached that level yet so who knows.
It's pretty obvious though that high vaccination rates are slowing the spread, and I think I would be less annoyed by people not getting vaxxed if people were at least adhering to social distancing etc like they did at the beginning of the pandemic...

Well I'm not masking, not distancing, not vaccined, not sorry

 

[jackolantern]

I wonder how we could increase jab uptake because our subjects are desensitised to the incessant fear porn…

Hmm, maybe remove the manufacturers’ immunity from liability?

Nooo, give them a kebab instead, that should do it

Fucking insulting isn't it. I'm 28 and I mean hey I love McDonalds, but if they really think a discounted big mac is going to change my mind when I've stayed so firm on how I feel despite all the animosity we've had these past few months... fuck me they really must think the bare minimum of our intellect.

 

[lizzies]

I can’t believe what I am reading about the vaccine recently, it’s seems the conspiracy theorists were correct and the vaccines aren’t working and now they want us to have boosters after six months? The vaccine is obviously not worth having and I wish I had never had mine. Apparently most people admitted to hospital with covid are now double vaxxed. A vaccine which looses it efficiency in six month is not fit for purpose. The world has gone mad. Instead of admitting they are not working they can’t admit defeat and will push these worthless vaccines until they can’t anymore. Really wish I hadn’t had mine.

Like everyone on here has said we didn’t know many people who had covid until they were doubled jabbed. Also what do these vaccines do to our immune systems?

 

[Momin_mama]

I've had my two jabs and so has my whole family. To be honest I'm quite annoyed at people who refuse the jab because of non-medical reasons, and reading these threads is frustrating to me... Obvi I wont argue with anybody on here but according to science or whatever we need what, 85% of people vaxxed to reach herd immunity but vaccinations are tapering off at 60-70% and cases are going up.. I just don't see why you would refuse to get it and deprive everybody else of their herd immunity as well...

Why does it annoy you?
The vaccine doesn’t stop you catching or spreading COVID. People I know personally who are double vaccinated have had COVID in varying levels of severity, one is still in hospital.

I haven’t been vaccinated but I’ve tested positive for antibodies which before COVID and SAGE was one of the ways for a population to achieve herd immunity, now we can only achieve that by fully vaccinating the entire population. To give an example, my mum has natural TB antibodies so she has never had a BCG where I have be I have no antibodies. If someone has COVID antibodies why is it that we now need to be vaccinated.

Whats to say that in a few years time people start to have reactions to the vaccine, most who have had it might be fine now but we are all just one big clinical study till 2023.

According to WHO, there are hundreds of variations of COVID across the world.
That means the virus has the capacity to evolve as some viruses do, how many vaccines are we going to need to get rid of a virus that has the ability to mutate.

 

[Podular]

Sorry but I've got to have a rant.
Just read posts elsewhere how it's everyone's right to refuse the vaccination but they should expect not to travel as that is not everyone's right!
Also people posting how worried they are for their unvaccinated, in their 20s friend who has tested positive.
Then I just heard a new radio ad "Don't miss out on the good times, book your jab" aimed at under 30s.
I don't know how to express myself except to say people seemed to have lost all sense of reality!
Personally I'm more worried about my husband/mothers/friends cancer returning, my nieces and nephews crashing their cars, my dad/brother/uncles having a heart attack, family members suicidal thoughts.
People seem to have forgotten that people get ill. Viruses have always gone around and put people in bed, made people have long term affects. So this is an unknown one but we can safely say that 18 months later most people survive .
People also think that foreign travel is for holidays but many families are separated by water.
They could fill their headlines with people who have had the vaccine and have regretted it for many reasons but obviously they aren't going down that route... Yet.
Brainwashing working very well indeed.

 

[Pixipoppy]

People are so fucking vile about the vaccine. I think it must stem from fear? We’ve been conditioned to believe that this vaccine is the only thing that’s going to save us. Ive heard some truly horrific things from colleagues about their feelings on people who are “anti vaxx” (NO - not wanting one vaccine doesn’t make you anti vax). Had to withdraw from a conversation at work yesterday where 2 people were so pro vaccines for under 12s it was horrible to hear. I don’t want to get into arguments at work but my god just shut up.

 

[Notgonnalie]

I’ve just got talking to family in NI and my cousin has just had heart failure his hearts only functioning at 15% and the consultant has said they are confident it’s linked to his second covid jab.

Please can you all pray for my cousin. Whether you have or haven’t had the jab this isn’t with the intention of scare mongering this is just real life. My cousin was in full health before getting the vaccine and only got it to go on holiday. He’s now looking at needing a pacemaker if he makes it. The consultant said it’s rare this has happened to him so I hope I don’t scare anyone who has had it or made the decision to get it, I’m just sharing the side that’s rarely shown.

Just wanted to update you all on my cousin, he’s had a pacemaker fitted and responded well to this so far he’s still being kept in hospital for a while longer and he’s been given a few different medicines he must take for the rest of his life and obviously now he’s a pacemaker in now too. I’m just so relieved he’s survived and hope he can go on to live a normal life. Such an awful scare he’s only in his 30s. Anyway sorry to derail just incase anyone was curious! X

 

[Meangirl815]

Hi

You probably won't remember my story so background info.
Refused the jab on medical grounds, bad reactions to meds, allergies etc
Also i have a hormonal issue so was worried about all the stories re period changes as my thoughts were, if it effects periods it effects hormones and THAT literally could tip me into a bad bad place

Anyway. Last Friday i got my first jab, Pfizer. I got it for all the wrong reasons and i am annoyed at myself for giving in.
Never mind, the next 24hrs i spent on edge waiting for all the side effects you expect. I got none. No sore arm, no headache, zilch.

BUT. My hormones have gone completely batshit crazy. I'm guessing if i still had periods (hysterectomy due to mentioned hormone issue) that they would be affected.

I can't get my mood stabilised, my mood swings are horrific, I've had 2 panic attacks MAJOR panic attacks in 3 days, and I'm tipping over into depression

Now obviously i can't say for definite that this is vax related.
But i also can't confidently say its not.

I guess what I'm wanting to say is. If you have doubts. Listen to them. Listen to your gut.
You can always get it at a later stage, but this decision is a big one and should be thought through fully.

That was a huge long word fart. Sorry. I just needed to share it somewhere

 

[Purrrrrrr]

You’re wrong to write that.

Like I said before, I was referring to the infant vaccinations that have been in place for decades - NOT the covid vaccination. I do feel sorry for children who can be vaccinated (with the aforementioned vaccines) and are not.

My professional life involves conversations daily with parents about the covid vaccine. I cannot estimate how often I get questions about it - 15, 20 times a day. I have never and will not currently advocate for it. It is completely at the parent’s discretion. I was not referencing the covid vaccine to begin with, you’ve misread my post entirely but ok .

ETA: you can’t seriously be a doctor (according to your profile picture) and not understand my sentiment

then again I don’t know any doctor who would legitimately have that as their profile pic on an Internet forum

I can't believe someone so passive-aggressive is a Dr.
You want to reply to someone then quote or tag that person, not just leave the post up in the air. I gather the post was aimed at me.
Yes, I am anti-vaccine you know why? Because like most people we follow the rules without even thinking about those rules, which led to my grandchild being vaccine injured. I was already very vaccine-hesitant before then because my dog was injured by them, they were both injured precisely because we were not antivaccine at that time.
I had been looking into vaccines before that only because I myself become very ill due to Drs overprescribing and treating symptoms and side effects rather than looking into why what happened, happened. That took me on a long journey down some bloody deep rabbit holes where I came across anti-vaccine people.
At first, I thought they were stupid why would anyone not vaccinate their children. but I listened and respected them because they all have one thing in common, vaccine injured and dead children.
I thought they wanted to blame someone or something for that, so I respected it but still was not antivaccine.
I got myself a puppy who I treated all naturally from the off, raw food natural flea and wormers because who wants all those chemicals on their animals? But I still booked him in for his jabs because they are important right, saves so many people right. He almost died my poor pup was a mess. and I was a mess for putting him through it.

That's when I started to dive even deeper down that rabbit hole and see what I see. but could not convince my daughter to go easy on the vaccinations, she rolled her eyes at me. That's until her last child was born and was injured even then she would not accept it was the vaccine, like most she blamed everything but the vaccine. Luckily my daughter dug deeper and that was the last vaccine any of her children had.

One good thing about this vaccine -and it is the only good thing about this vaccine- is that people are now thinking if they can hide these deaths and injuries behind everything except the vaccines, Maybe they have been doing that all these decades, it's so much harder to hide adult deaths than it is to hide a child's death. SIDS is perfectly accepted as something that happens. SADS is rarer than hen's teeth but not anymore. then we have a huge rise in sudden illness and short illness right after vaccines, even on this forum, how many have felt awful since their vaccine, how many have fucked up periods.. how many pop into this and other threads asking "has this happened to anyone else" Some feel they can't speak about it anywhere else. on some forums, people are banned for questioning the vaccines. are those admin bad people, no, gatekeepers, no, just like most of us, they believe anti-vaxxers to be ignorant, uneducated or CT and downright dangerous, why? because that's how we are taught to react to these people.. We are conditioned to ridicule those who question.

Everyone on this forum who has questioned this vaccine has seen since they said they didn't want it how people talk to them and about them. before every post, they will say "I'm not anti-vax..but" Parents of dead and injured children have had this for decades. Remember their child was vaccinated. they were not anti-vaccine until it happened, it happened because they vaccinated their child. I thought this would all come out when teens started dying or being ill after the HPV vaccine but no it was explained away.

Before you knee-jerk react to someone who is antivaccine ask yourself, is it because I have been taught my whole life that vaccines were safe and harmless, that side effects are very rare and vaccines have saved many lives?
It's Just the same narrative they are using now. and you can see how they are ignoring and hiding so much, shutting down those who asked questions.