Real Life Crime & Murder #35

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From the Daily Mail re: behind the scenes of the Manchester airport brothers case:

Now that prosecutors have today opted not to push for a third trial, details of the extraordinary behind-the-scenes efforts of the brothers' legal teams can finally be reported.

Among the catalogue of claims and counter-claims which were argued over at court in the absence of the jury were:

  • allegations of ‘bias’ following a bizarre incident in which a member of court staff allegedly told the senior detective on the case that Amaaz should have been kicked ‘harder’.
  • a desperate effort by the defence to suppress the damning clip of the unprovoked headbutt which sparked the whole melee on the grounds the CCTV had no audio.
  • 'vile' racist commentary on social media during the first trial which resulted in attempts to have the case thrown out – or, in what would have been an unprecedented move, jurors’ phones examined.
  • Reform UK leader Nigel Farage risking causing the first trial to collapse after he branded the brothers 'violent thugs' a fortnight into proceedings.
  • attempts to bring up previous allegations of improper force against two of the police officers viciously assaulted by the brothers.
  • the judge being accused of sexism for criticising a female barrister's 'emotive submissions', with the defence later trying – and failing – to have him removed from the retrial.
Edit to include this also:

One of the strangest episodes of the original 2025 trial involved the court clerk’s alleged quip about PC Zachary Marsden kicking younger brother Mohammed Fahir Amaaz in the face.

In a comment to senior investigating officer Detective Chief Superintendent Lewis Hughes, the official was said to have laughingly told him: ‘PC Marsden should have kicked Amaaz harder in the head.’


Is it so hard to believe that jury members/judges could have been threatened/bribed now?
 
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This is a really interesting - and deeply horrifying - article about the elderly woman found pushing her deceased daughter's body in a wheelchair a few years ago. Desperately sad for both of them.

Thank you for sharing this, I found it interesting that the people who ended up caring were blue collar workers who didn’t “need” to and not those trained and employed to care for them.
 
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From the Daily Mail re: behind the scenes of the Manchester airport brothers case:



Edit to include this also:

One of the strangest episodes of the original 2025 trial involved the court clerk’s alleged quip about PC Zachary Marsden kicking younger brother Mohammed Fahir Amaaz in the face.

In a comment to senior investigating officer Detective Chief Superintendent Lewis Hughes, the official was said to have laughingly told him: ‘PC Marsden should have kicked Amaaz harder in the head.’


Is it so hard to believe that jury members/judges could have been threatened/bribed now?
You do realise that none of this is really ‘extraordinary’ as quoted by the media. This is sadly what happens in the majority of criminal trials…the defence and the prosecution argue over things that should/shouldn’t be included as evidence, they try get cases thrown out, they try get changes dropped/changed etc it is genuinely surprising what evidence does get agreed to be moved to non-disclosure in some trials. For example, the mushroom poisoning case in Australia - her defence team managed to get the CCTV of her dumping the mushroom dehydrator out of evidence (She’s also just recently won an appeal based on ridiculousness).

I don’t think the jury or judges were bribed at all. I sadly think the police officers actions were that controversial that it’s impacted the chance to get a guilty verdict.
 
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Given the attitude of staff and jury members it's much more likely that they would have been threatened by Farage and co rather than anyone related to the brothers.

I watched the video again and bugger me that policeman was violent. It was horrible to see. I mean the guy deserved it IMO but that's why I am not a police officer and never should be.
 
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You do realise that none of this is really ‘extraordinary’ as quoted by the media.
If that's how the media describe it, how are we to know otherwise? Most of us are not legal professionals, my interest in true crime has decreased a lot lately but there are a couple of long running cases I still follow out of curiosity. I'd say for the 'everyman' the media is our only source as a look into what happens in the courts.

Though I know the Daily Mail is not trust worthy, it's a really bad habit that I still read it but also because they'll cover stories other outlets won't go near. I do intend to wean off from it though, just for personal betterment.
 
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I'm so sick of people using the excuse of being overworked for their shortcomings and doing a poor job. It's always the same story, and actually, as in this case, it's more a case of bad decision making and risk assessment than anything else. It does make you wonder how many more families are out there in similar situations. Also how sad that there were no photos of poor Tracey anywhere 😔
While doing a placement at uni I ended up attending an inquest into the death of a lady who had taken her own life while in the care of local authorities.

The coroner was basically asking questions about how well she'd been monitored (for lack of a better word) and what help she'd been offered and he couldn't get a straight answer out of anybody.

The amount of excuses, buck passing and dissembling was absolutely unbelievable. I remember thinking that even the brief representing the LA looked uncomfortable with the answers he had been instructed to give.

And this was a decade plus ago, God knows what it's like now.
 
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If that's how the media describe it, how are we to know otherwise? Most of us are not legal professionals, my interest in true crime has decreased a lot lately but there are a couple of long running cases I still follow out of curiosity. I'd say for the 'everyman' the media is our only source as a look into what happens in the courts.

Though I know the Daily Mail is not trust worthy, it's a really bad habit that I still read it but also because they'll cover stories other outlets won't go near. I do intend to wean off from it though, just for personal betterment.
My honest answer to this was that I did think it was relatively common knowledge - appreciate the legal ins and outs might not be but knowing that both prosecution and defence have many legal conversations during a criminal trial to act in the best interest of their clients is what the criminal justice system is?

I avoid mainstream media as best as I can as since Covid I just think it’s rife for stirring up things amongst us common folk. This is a great example. It’s already a case which has sparked a lot of outrage, it’s already a case where conspiracy theories have been flying around and they’re just adding fuel to the fire by the words they’re careful choosing.

A separate layer is that the reason why the average Joe is likely not aware this goes on so much in criminal trials is that realistically we shouldn’t be privy to legal arguments that happen in court. I aren’t a personal fan of the expectation ‘we’ should know everything when it comes to criminal trials.
 
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My honest answer to this was that I did think it was relatively common knowledge - appreciate the legal ins and outs might not be but knowing that both prosecution and defence have many legal conversations during a criminal trial to act in the best interest of their clients is what the criminal justice system is?

I avoid mainstream media as best as I can as since Covid I just think it’s rife for stirring up things amongst us common folk. This is a great example. It’s already a case which has sparked a lot of outrage, it’s already a case where conspiracy theories have been flying around and they’re just adding fuel to the fire by the words they’re careful choosing.

A separate layer is that the reason why the average Joe is likely not aware this goes on so much in criminal trials is that realistically we shouldn’t be privy to legal arguments that happen in court. I aren’t a personal fan of the expectation ‘we’ should know everything when it comes to criminal trials.
I aren’t a personal fan of the expectation ‘we’ should know everything when it comes to criminal trials.

Agree - but we need to be able to trust the integrity of the legal process. A lot of people are doubting that now when we see so many examples of 'two-tier" policing.
 
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I aren’t a personal fan of the expectation ‘we’ should know everything when it comes to criminal trials.

Agree - but we need to be able to trust the integrity of the legal process. A lot of people are doubting that now when we see so many examples of 'two-tier" policing.
I get that and I also can understand views/opinions of ‘two-tier’ policing despite me not agreeing that it happens.

I think the justice system as a whole needs a massive overhaul and should be more victim focused, I find that it largely actually benefits or protects perpetrators.
 
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I get that and I also can understand views/opinions of ‘two-tier’ policing despite me not agreeing that it happens.

I think the justice system as a whole needs a massive overhaul and should be more victim focused, I find that it largely actually benefits or protects perpetrators.
Hard agree.

In addition to what I (personally) consider excessive protection of the "human rights" of vile people who have never considered the human rights of their victims, the policy of "reasonable doubt" seems to have morphed into "any tiny scintilla of an almost impossible but might have happened in a 1,000 parallel universes doubt".

I also think that people expect too much of police in the heat of a violent altercation - they need to be able to use the degree of force necessary, especially if members of the public may be put at risk if an incident escalates (or even an individual escalates their behaviour ). I know we hear about a lot of rotten apples in the police barrel, but I really believe that most of them are just good people trying to do a pretty thankless job, and they're doing their best.
 
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Hard agree.

In addition to what I (personally) consider excessive protection of the "human rights" of vile people who have never considered the human rights of their victims, the policy of "reasonable doubt" seems to have morphed into "any tiny scintilla of an almost impossible but might have happened in a 1,000 parallel universes doubt".

I also think that people expect too much of police in the heat of a violent altercation - they need to be able to use the degree of force necessary, especially if members of the public may be put at risk if an incident escalates (or even an individual escalates their behaviour ). I know we hear about a lot of rotten apples in the police barrel, but I really believe that most of them are just good people trying to do a pretty thankless job, and they're doing their best.
I wanted to just come back to this when I had more time to write out a reply. Again, with the overhaul of the system I think there should be more done regarding deportations. This is linked more to the justice system than maybe some people think. For automatic deportation to be considered, an individual needs to receive a 12 month (or more) custodial sentence. If it’s less than that, then a separate application of deportation needs to be made and meet X criteria.
Now sentencing is horrendous at the moment and people aren’t being given custodial sentences, they’re often suspended - even for serious crimes such a Child sex abuse images etc better sentencing and a better system would go a long way with the current laws we have in relation to deportations and that’s before you start discussing regarding changing any of those laws.

The difficulty you have with the police is that they have to be held to a higher standard than your average Joe. That’s part of the job. They are trained and they should conduct themselves as professionally as possible even under the extreme circumstances. No one does know how they’d react and it’s easy for someone at home to say they should do X, Y, Z but kicking someone in the head when on the floor is not reasonable force and isn’t something they’re trained to do - therefore if that happens, whatever the outcome of that, that officer is liable and I believe in this instance, it’s played a huge part in the jury not deciding the guy was guilty when he should have been imo.

It does also become a bit of a “where do you draw the line” if you let actions like this slide in certain circumstances. Who decides which scenarios that action is acceptable in? How can we then convict the lay person of attempted murder or murder for stamping on someone’s head if the police are allowed to do it? When faced with a terrorist is it reasonable? I’d argue in those circumstances yes but then what stops the police abusing that and using the excuse of “I thought they were a terrorist” I dunno, I just think it’s a bit of a slippery slope which opens up a whole other can of worms for everyone
 
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I've just watched the press conference of Henry's family outside the court & his father Mark was absolutely amazing. I cried.

How very composed & dignified they were as opposed to the family of the murderer who caused chaos in the courtroom upon hearing the sentencing, calling the judge a racist 🙄
The mother is yet to be sentenced, not hopeful she'll do any time.
 
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I've just watched the press conference of Henry's family outside the court & his father Mark was absolutely amazing. I cried.

How very composed & dignified they were as opposed to the family of the murderer who caused chaos in the courtroom upon hearing the sentencing, calling the judge a racist 🙄
The mother is yet to be sentenced, not hopeful she'll do any time.
Gross old baggage. Needs locked up along with her beast son.
 
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I've just watched the press conference of Henry's family outside the court & his father Mark was absolutely amazing. I cried.

How very composed & dignified they were as opposed to the family of the murderer who caused chaos in the courtroom upon hearing the sentencing, calling the judge a racist 🙄
The mother is yet to be sentenced, not hopeful she'll do any time.
The pain on his families face. Absolutely heartbreaking. Utter bleeping rum murderer and his absolute trash family. Still not long enough sentence in my eyes. Whole life and never released should be imposed on the filthy rat
 
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