Preston Davey Trial #2

[GingerSnapped]

Did someone mention earlier in the thread that there is a separate charge pending relating to extreme pornography? Or was that speculation?

On the subject of lessons learned, I think lessons are learned but for various reasons (high caseloads, budget cuts, the cost of providing care placements, staggering levels of need) the threshold for intervening has just been moved higher and higher. I’ve sat in a meeting recently where everyone present agreed there was a clear and significant risk of harm relating to vulnerable child and the social worker response was basically to shrug and say it didn’t meet threshold for chid protection. Blows my mind. It’s like the worst has to happen before anyone will do anything.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

We might never know but this to me seems more likely, coupled with the comment about her not wanting JV to hold Preston after he had passed away, she was angry.

We don’t know what conversations she’s had with him about the bruises/injuries etc. She might have even been telling him off that day, if she thought they were caused by incompetence or neglect. When he broke Preston’s arm didn’t they go to JV mum’s house before taking him to hospital? I’m making suppositions but maybe that’s what her comments and actions on the day he died were. Especially as he seemed to be happy with her and she was probably frustrated with JV complaining about normal baby “demands”.

 

[Cucumber and eggs]

Did someone mention earlier in the thread that there is a separate charge pending relating to extreme pornography? Or was that speculation?

On the subject of lessons learned, I think lessons are learned but for various reasons (high caseloads, budget cuts, the cost of providing care placements, staggering levels of need) the threshold for intervening has just been moved higher and higher. I’ve sat in a meeting recently where everyone present agreed there was a clear and significant risk of harm relating to vulnerable child and the social worker response was basically to shrug and say it didn’t meet threshold for chid protection. Blows my mind. It’s like the worst has to happen before anyone will do anything.

My children, as mentioned previously, were on the at risk register due to my eldest daughter (I have a significant age gap between eldest and younger 3 children), violence and abuse. I once reported that my eldest had hit my youngest daughter, and it had left a mark. The social workers response was to say she would document it, and that was it! I wanted her removed from the home, away from her younger siblings who i believed were at significant harm

 

[Closedeyes]

My children, as mentioned previously, were on the at risk register due to my eldest daughter (I have a significant age gap between eldest and younger 3 children), violence and abuse. I once reported that my eldest had hit my youngest daughter, and it had left a mark. The social workers response was to say she would document it, and that was it! I wanted her removed from the home, away from her younger siblings who i believed were at significant harm

I really hope you got the right outcome your family in the end

 

[PaddyDomino]

We don’t know what conversations she’s had with him about the bruises/injuries etc. She might have even been telling him off that day, if she thought they were caused by incompetence or neglect. When he broke Preston’s arm didn’t they go to JV mum’s house before taking him to hospital? I’m making suppositions but maybe that’s what her comments and actions on the day he died were. Especially as he seemed to be happy with her and she was probably frustrated with JV complaining about normal baby “demands”.

I reckon she thought they were both a bit clueless about looking after a baby and that's why poor Preston had a lot of bruises.
Maybe, possibly, deep deep down, she felt JV got frustrated with Preston and handled him roughly?
I think this might be why she wouldn't let JV hold him in the hospital?

 

[IGiveUp22]

Did someone mention earlier in the thread that there is a separate charge pending relating to extreme pornography? Or was that speculation?

Someone posted a screenshot earlier from initial reporting, the time frame of this particular charge went back to 2017 IIRC. None of the charges relating to incident images of children went back - they were just in the time frame of the adoption so I’d assume those all related to the images taken of poor Preston.

I went back to look at the CPS charges. He does have “One count of possession of an extreme pornographic image, contrary to section 63(1) of the Criminal Justice and Immigration Act 2008” which I took to relate to purely to Preston. But actually, I think these are the images mentioned in that initial arrest - if so, we (or the jury) may hear this evidence and if what some of us have suspected on here, they will likely show a sexual interest in extreme things such as stopping airways etc.
I was wondering how they’d manage to knocked them off as irrelevant and deal with in a separate trial as imo, they go towards a motive of ‘why’ the SA took place.

 

[PaddyDomino]

This is a good indicator actually.
As you said if she's sat in the gallery watching the trial then she can't give evidence.
I'd welcome someone being at the trial gauging the atmosphere with feedback of 'their' demeanor & that of their supporters

I've had a good look on Facebook and I know it could be rubbish but I saw a comment saying JV's brothers and sisters are there, and JMF's father, but interestingly, there was no mention of either of their mothers.
Preston's mother attends every day, apparently.
There is a true crime YouTuber, who attended their plea hearing last October, and he described them both in a Facebook comment as being calm, and JV had lost weight and was slim.
Here's the video he made that day:

 

[watermelonvapes]

Since I read that comment about Preston trying to smile at the social worker but then doing "a very sad face and a little cry" it's been coming into my head every couple of minutes haunting me. People have been saying with the hospital admissions, missed call to emergency services, foster mothers concerns etc, dots should have been connected. But didn't the ultimate power to remove him lie with his social worker even if the dots were connected? And she knew about all of the above bar the cancelled call. So obviously whatever system is in place isn't working. To me it seems like a new system needs to be put in place where kids are assigned two social workers who independently audit each other's opinions. And maybe a system in place where a fostered or about-to-be adopted child being admitted to hospital triggers a multi disciplinary investigation regardless of why they are admitted. Would be very expensive yes, but this absolutely can't happen again. I keep thinking of that note she left in prestons book for when he's 18 that said something along the lines of "it made me wonder was i missing something. I decided I wasn't." To me it struck me that it all comes down to the opinion of one person, albeit a professional but still just a person. Now I don't know if I believe we should be calling for her head to roll, and I can only imagine the news that he had died probably nearly killed her. The system as a whole seems to place an insane level of responsibility on one person, from what I'm reading of this case anyway

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

Since I read that comment about Preston trying to smile at the social worker but then doing "a very sad face and a little cry" it's been coming into my head every couple of minutes haunting me. People have been saying with the hospital admissions, missed call to emergency services, foster mothers concerns etc, dots should have been connected. But didn't the ultimate power to remove him lie with his social worker even if the dots were connected? And she knew about all of the above bar the cancelled call. So obviously whatever system is in place isn't working. To me it seems like a new system needs to be put in place where kids are assigned two social workers who independently audit each other's opinions. And maybe a system in place where a fostered or about-to-be adopted child being admitted to hospital triggers a multi disciplinary investigation regardless of why they are admitted. Would be very expensive yes, but this absolutely can't happen again. I keep thinking of that note she left in prestons book for when he's 18 that said something along the lines of "it made me wonder was i missing something. I decided I wasn't." To me it struck me that it all comes down to the opinion of one person, albeit a professional but still just a person. Now I don't know if I believe we should be calling for her head to roll, and I can only imagine the news that he had died probably nearly killed her. The system as a whole seems to place an insane level of responsibility on one person, from what I'm reading of this case anyway

I think that social workers have “supervision”, where their senior reviews their cases and actions so it’s like having a second pair of eyes on it, but I don’t know how often these take place. You’re right that this should absolutely be triggered if a looked after child has a hospital attendance. Am I right in thinking she was employed by an external agency and not the Council? If so, maybe their oversight isn’t as rigorous- which is scandalous if true.

 

[maytoseptember]

Am I right in thinking she was employed by an external agency and not the Council? If so, maybe their oversight isn’t as rigorous- which is scandalous if true.

It sounds like it was a private agency called Adoption Now who have a contract with Oldham council. It’s interesting when you realise how many functions the public sector used to carry out (especially in health and social care) that have been outsourced to the private sector.

When there’s an inquiry or serious case review into Preston’s murder (as I’m sure there will be) it will be interesting to see whether this kind of outsourcing = a drop in fundamental standards.

 

[Spidey2020]

another flag is that JV was DSL. He should have encouraged investigation if he was innocent. We had similar with a (totally accidental) minor injury to a non mobile baby. The parent had adjacent professional experience and were very much ‘we understand that we won’t be going home tonight’ and were very open, clear and respectful of the need to exclude deliberate harm.

 

[GingerSnapped]

It sounds like it was a private agency called Adoption Now who have a contract with Oldham council. It’s interesting when you realise how many functions the public sector used to carry out (especially in health and social care) that have been outsourced to the private sector.

When there’s an inquiry or serious case review into Preston’s murder (as I’m sure there will be) it will be interesting to see whether this kind of outsourcing = a drop in fundamental standards.

Adoption Now is a regional adoption agency - it’s not private sector, it’s just where several local authorities join together to maximise their reach when it comes to finding adoptive families for children.

 

[Nelly's mum]

Social workers are guided by other professionals; Preston attended hospital many times, his SW would have been informed each time as he was a LAC but the health care professionals who were there at the time were not unduly concerned, so red flags were not raised.
Agency SWs are used, they are with the regular team for an extended period not just drafted in adhoc, they work in the same way as permanent staff and follow national guidelines.
To 'double up' staff to work cases would effectively mean doubling the current children's social work budget - more actually as it's already under funded - I don't disagree with this but I cannot see this happening any time soon

I used to provide Admin support for a children's SW team - the stress and pressure that staff are under is more than I have ever seen, the SWs were absolutely fixated on food as diversion from the workload and pressure they were under every day - it was intolerable for me and I wasn't even doing the work!!
SW have regular suppervision (I think monthly, I could be wrong) and they can discuss concerns with their manager anytime and there are weekly team meetings - but ultimately, decisions are made on one person's opinion based on the information they have received. There is professional curiosity ofc, but JV was well aware how to present himself to other professionals - it sounds as though concerns were beginning to be raised but sadly not in time to save Preston

 

[GingerSnapped]

I think that social workers have “supervision”, where their senior reviews their cases and actions so it’s like having a second pair of eyes on it, but I don’t know how often these take place. You’re right that this should absolutely be triggered if a looked after child has a hospital attendance. Am I right in thinking she was employed by an external agency and not the Council? If so, maybe their oversight isn’t as rigorous- which is scandalous if true.

Supervision should be monthly as a minimum. There would also have been more than one social worker involved - Preston would have had his own as a looked after child and JV and JMF would have had their own as adopters.

 

[maytoseptember]

Adoption Now is a regional adoption agency - it’s not private sector, it’s just where several local authorities join together to maximise their reach when it comes to finding adoptive families for children.

Interesting! Happy to be corrected. Adoption Now sounds like such a private sector name, and the fact news reports said they acted on behalf of Oldham council made me assume it was a kind of outsourcing.

 

[Itchy of Itchington]

Helen Magee was the Independent Review officer who wrote that comment. IROs are experienced social workers who oversee the looked after children cases. She is no longer a practising social worker

Amy Shepherdson was Preston's social worker and is still working in the same local authority.


I keep coming back to the fact, and a couple of other people have already said this, there was no "professional curiosity". And I strongly think it was an assumption that as he was going to be adopted by these men then he wasn't at risk. So they didn't regard these incidents as red flags or even possible red flags. I think that also went for the hospital staff.
.If Preston had stayed with his mum but on child protection then they wouldn't have shown any leniency or understanding. If a foster carer had gone to hospital so many times and been evasive they would have investigated more.
It's as if in the adoption process the social workers forgot that they still had a duty to Preston, it was just a tick and sign off routine to them. Helen Magee tried a bit of reflection practice wondering if there was something else but doesn't seem to have interrogated that thought

I've seen kids get signed off a child protection plan despite their school and housing and police have serious concerns. Social workers were happy that parents making progress and that they'd engaged. Less than a month later the kids were removed by the police as Mum battered them.

 

[kabukigirl]

I’ve been reading the trial online the last week and didn’t realise there was a thread here. It’s honestly absolutely shocking.

I was reading last night the court reporting from the first trial, before they needed a new jury and there is some stuff which was mentioned then, which I haven’t seen mentioned this time round - maybe the journalists aren’t reporting it, because they’ve done so already but it was quite depressing. We are wondering why the hell professionals wernt concerned by his demeanour - it sounds like by all accounts the little chap was still happy & bubbly and was winning over medical staff / SW with his personality - it was saying he interacted well with JV & JF and looked to them for comfort etc - which is devastating tbh. Even through all that. Bless him

Timelines from photos / hospital visits show that JMF was a lot more involved than that 1 assault 4 days before Preston’s death, as he was at home before incidents that required a hospital admission for difficulties breathing etc - I have faith the jury will be able to read through the lines as well & get him nailed too.

 

[watermelonvapes]

The SWs were absolutely fixated on food as diversion from the workload and pressure they were under every day

Sorry to be so dim but what does this mean?

 

[Boogs]

Whenever a child dies and social care are involved I always say there would be at least one professional who was saying there was a problem and not listened to. It seems like the only person who had concerns here was the foster carer. I think JV is extraordinarily manipulative and is so good at convincing people that when he started making concerning remarks to colleagues it was him they worried about and not Preston! I cannot understand why all the hospital visits didn’t trigger safeguarding alerts from medical staff.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

It sounds like it was a private agency called Adoption Now who have a contract with Oldham council. It’s interesting when you realise how many functions the public sector used to carry out (especially in health and social care) that have been outsourced to the private sector.

When there’s an inquiry or serious case review into Preston’s murder (as I’m sure there will be) it will be interesting to see whether this kind of outsourcing = a drop in fundamental standards.

And it never seems to work to the benefit of the public. Especially vulnerable members of the public.