Nurses striking

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

FYI - Tattle is an opinion forum. I’m welcome to mine, as are all of you. Thought this might be helpful for some: https://tattle.life/help/terms/

Of course you’re welcome to it! And we’re welcome to tell you it’s a shit opinion

 

[gigilouxx]

I’ve seen a lot on Twitter about it as well, and a lot of people seem to be of the opinion that if someone on a salary of £2200 a month is relying on a food bank then they’re living above their means.

I can’t comment on that as I dunno what peoples outgoings are and that’s none of my business anyway, but it’s a complete domino affect, rent is extortionate, bills are extortionate, childcare is extortionate. Everything’s going up by the second it seems and I think the gov have dropped a massive one in allowing private landlords to skyrocket their rents to cover their own mortgages, HMO’s round here now are over £500, there should be a rent cap, working families should get more help toward childcare, the whole living crisis in the UK has been slowly happening for years and like the NHS, it’s a complete mess that has just been left to get worse

 

[Mrhopalot]

We've been in children's a&e twice in January because it is IMPOSSIBLE to get a GP appointment. Both times it was fairly quiet, seen quickly enough, care was great. Hospital Doctor came and saw my son, gave us great advice, set up a referral of which I received an invite to a further appointment the next day. Wonderful care. Didn't seem like an NHS under pressure to me.

You’ve used a service twice that’s there to provide care for life threatening/trauma injuries for something that could have been dealt with by a GP. If that’s not telling you the NHS is failing and under pressure I don’t know what will. Another case of I haven’t seen it so it mustn’t be happening.

 

[popb1tch]

That's not what I want. I find your attitude similar to nurses attitudes in general and it's hard to get on your side when I'm being preached to about how hard your life is because your salary hasn't risen 19 per cent.

I’m not an expert but I think the gist is…during 12 years of austerity measures all public sector workers had below inflationary pay rises. So maybe 1% each year even when retail prices grew maybe 3 or 4%, bills went up by more and let’s not forget how much the cost of housing has gone up in that time.

So the debt you accrued to do your job as a student attracts a level of interest that you yourself do not get paid.

Couple that with the fact that society and the government was perfectly happy to risk your life during the pandemic and many, many health service workers died of covid and the government didn’t supply the correct protective equipment despite the billions of taxpayers money wasted.

For many years patients have died because they simply aren’t enough nurses to run around answering call bells, delivering medication, responding to crash calls and so on…this has been happening FOR YEARS….

The running around for 12 hour shifts with several staff members down each and every shift has just got a bit much.

Shifts are down because nurses have left, retired, died or called in sick because the reward on offer for this level of effort simply isn’t enough

It isn’t just nurses though…it’s all public sector workers…..it’s the police, social workers, care workers, firemen…etc etc

 

[Tui]

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned their mum works in retail for £18k a year and someone else mentioned their partner worked in retail, both used as comparisons to nurses pay.

I can see how people would struggle on £2k are you kidding? This is pre tax, then pension, NMC fees, council tax, bills, childcare which for more than one child is ££££ and many cannot rely on relatives to help out.

I’m a doctor, just paid £700 for an exam which is mandatory for me to pass to complete my training programme. If I fail I have to resit and repay til I pass. Funded from my own pocket on top £100s for my online portfolio, £500 per year for GMC, about £150 for professional indemnity insurance. Hardly anything at all is funded for health care professionals. The system.is.fucked.

 

[anotheronebitesthedust.1]

saw some comments that said that striking wont improve better working conditions or extra pays

so if pay increases, it stops nurses from leaving for jobs where we can get more money per hour so if the nhs retains the staff , means theres more nurses on each ward. If theres more nurses on each ward means better ratio for staff to patients, nurses arent having to give up days off or annual leave to help manage wards. If theres more nurses on each ward, nurses can have breaks which we dont get paid for which overall improves staff performance ,better morale and also less chance of burnout

 

[onservantannie]

Not really sure where to jump in on this thread. Seems a bit EEEK.

Anyway, I work in the private sector but fully support the nurses striking and anyone's right to withhold their labour if they feel their working conditions are not sufficient.

Nurses withholding their labour is morally and ethically wrong. No wonder the respect for the profession is declining.

 

[Yel]

Any deal has to be more than just x% pay rise imo. It has to address the workforce issues so people enter the profession.

 

[Emsie]

The country is an absolute state and everyone is finding it tough. But we're expected to support one group and encourage the government to give them a payrise. So great one group of people are sorted. What about the others? Those that can strike could strike for everyone. Demand changes to childcare. Demand changes to housing. Demand the tax loopholes are closed and people are taxed correctly. Then everyone benefits and we all move forward. We've heard lots about strikes have paved the way for maternity pay, annual leave etc but this nurses strike benefits nurses. That's it.
There has been lots on this thread that no one should settle for shit and it's not a race to the bottom all of which I agree with... But I can't get on board with supporting one group of people whilst the rest languish. The cost of living crisis effects us all (apart from one person on this thread who is super rich and earns more than the king).
People ... Well me... Are a bit tired of being preached too about how hard life is for nurses and how amazing them are. It does start to grate and I make no apologies for being annoyed by it all.

It’s not heartless to want to be paid a decent amount

See this. You are paid a decent amount. A 30k salary isn't a pittance.

 

[Piff paff puff]

A nurse called the presenter of a radio show last week and revealed her job was being threatened by the manager if she didn't strike. She will not be the only one.
Nurses should be paid enough to keep up with inflation
Nurses should have better working conditions
I don't agree with the strikes though as I believe it is a co-ordinated attempt by socialist union bosses to disrupt and breakdown traditional society (and simultaneously keep themselves relevant )

 

[Emsie]

I don't think anyone begrudes nurses a fair payrise. But 5 per cent over inflation simply isn't fair imo. Just because they "work hard". Said it once and I'll say it again... Everyone works hard.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

I'm really not trying to be an arsehole I am trying to understand. If the NHS working conditions are so crap why don't you all leave and go and work for a private authority... If that's the right term. I work for an accountancy firm. If my conditions were this awful I'd leave. I wouldnt have loyalty to the shitty accountants.
I appreciate nursing is more vocational though and that might explain why you stay x

That’s the whole point, they are all leaving . We have the biggest shortage of nurses of all time

 

[struggs123]

*as a graduate salary for a person with 10 years of experience £33k is crap…*

Yep. To be honest though it doesn't matter if others think its a fair wage, end of the day if the people doing the job don't think it's fair or reasonable then they leave, which they are doing. Someone saying well others earn less isn't going to make them stay.

 

[judgejohndeed]

So, I know we don't believe government and we especially don't believe Tory government but wasn't Rishi on Piers Morgan saying that they are planning on putting money into the NHS but it's not going to spent on payrises. Its going to be spent on recruitment? In that case, all will be well (if they do it, but let's assume they will).
So if money was ploughed into recruitment would that be enough?

Haven’t seen but what does 'recruitment' even mean here? A campaign? If so - pointless. I have two friends who recently changed career to be a nurse, one did adult and one did child, both courses at the uni were oversubscribed. I don't think it is a lack of people wanting to do it in theory, but retention. It's no good recruiting a load more nurses if none of them will stay. Ultimately, there are not enough medical professionals for the NHS to function how it should. In a functional society, when you need more of a particular role, you pay it better and improve the conditions which in turn improves both recruitment AND retention. I completely understand that in a cost of living crisis and about to go into a recession, people will hear 27-33k and think 'hold on, that's a decent wage, it's not worth striking over' but the actual job nurses are having to do now for that salary is not one I personally would be willing to do for even one day on that wage. Not a chance. And that's the key part that's getting lost, the fact that Sunak thinks recruitment is where he should be focusing shows this government hasn't got a clue about the real issues so how can the public be expected to either.

What I will say about the impact on patient safety is again as someone on who works on personal injury/clinical negligence/professional regulation cases, every time I speak to a HCP right now I cross everything in my body that none of my loved ones have to set foot in a hospital or need an ambulance.

 

[gigilouxx]

No one’s said nurses etc aren’t underpaid for what they do. My main issue is I’m absolutely sick of hearing how people can’t live on £33k per year when they “work hard and put up with abuse” and the only rhetoric is that they’re “highly skilled”
So is everyone who isn’t a nurse thick as pig shit and just floating through life then? No. There are plenty of examples of jobs that are gruelling, filled with abuse and unsafe staff levels that can’t strike, that do have to live on less than 30k. Prison officers being one of them.

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Maybe an unpopular opinion but one thing I don’t agree with is student nurses thinking they should be paid for training work. They aren’t the only ones who have to work to qualify for their degree. It’s horrible having to work for free obviously but whenever I see student nurses post about it they always make out it’s only them that has to do it. Imo it should be the people who supervise/train them that get paid more.

 

[Polythene Pam]

This is actually a thread about opinions on the nurses strike which everyone is giving.
Whilst a degree isn't negative, it is a barrier. If the NHS needs more nurses, then alternative methods to qualifying could be looked at. Lots of other professions have done this with a decent level of success.
My understanding is that nurses have been offered around 4 percent. That is probably a bit low. I don't think anyone has a problem with nurses getting a payrise in general but 19 per cent is too much. Whilst I appreciate the need to go in high and negotiate down if this had been pitched around 9 or 10 per cent there would probably be a lot more support for it and they'd probably end up with it.
Being held to ransom because we need nurses so much and they are so overworked and stressed out just doesn't sit well with an overworked and stressed out workforce and it's where it's losing favour imo. If nurses want more people on side the attitude needs to soften. I don't have a never ending supply of respect for professions and after a while I do start think aaah shut up now.

I agree there should be more routes into nursing (and all professions). The traditional university route is not for everyone and there should be other options.

As far as I can tell we are only being held to ransom by a government that refuses to engage on the topic of pay. The RCN said they would cancel the strikes if pay could be DISCUSSED. The government refused.
I don't think anyone thinks they'll get 19%. It's a starting point.

exactly this.

If someone is reading and thinking they’ve got it hard at work, no prospect of pay rises etc.

then expecting nurses, who are maybe paid more than them - to just suck it up… is categorically wrong in my eyes.

they should be questioning why they have it so badly, and how they can improve it, how they can unionise. Not just throwing the towel in and expecting other professions to do the same.

The problem is the NHS has for so many years had a captive market. If you want to be a nurse it's basically been your only choice, but that's changing now. We live in an ever globalised world and people will just leave the country.
My sister in law is a GP who consistently got urine infections as she got no breaks to go to the toilet. She now works in New Zealand.
My brother is a teacher who spent way too much of his own time AND MONEY on resources for children, losing sleep over whether children would be safe. He now works in Thailand and will probably never teach in the UK again.
I know two teachers that have quit in the last year with no other job to go to. It's fucking bleak working in the public sector and we should all want more for them.
I want more for all workers. It literally doesn't have to be like this. Take a look at around at our European neighbours.

 

[JoeBloggs]

I think everyone has the right to expect better and withdraw their labour
Theres enough money out there, don’t be fooled by newspaper barons and the right wing media who would keep us all down

I think Victorian social progressives and philanthropists would be turning in their graves if they could see what has happened to the life chances of the vast majority of people over the last 12 years of Tory government

I work for a small business and I do the finances, there is no more money for me.

I think nurses do highlight the squeezed middle. When you're on 30k something you're not entitled to any top up benefits. Someone working far less hours on less pay could have top ups that massively boost finances.

I get the thinking behind top ups, but they do seem to be allowing companies to pay less and allow those at the top to cream off even more profit.

When you hear people are getting £1600 a month in benefits it is a real kick in the teeth for those working 2/3 jobs and barely making ends meet.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I think such comments can be clumsy but ultimately I'd like to live in a society where we pay our doctors and nurses more than supermarket workers. Tough shit to anyone who disagrees with me.

Well yes, aren't you a doctor? I'm sure you do. Last sentence is hardly a compelling argument and proves the point that it looks like snobbery.

 

[cee-bee]

I've been hearing out of 300,000 only 10,000 striking and these were supplemented by the just stop oil mob. That union leader is on crazy money
If there wasn't Blanket media coverage idk if anyone would notice any difference
I think everyone's equally corrupt. All workers need more money and gov could do that if they stopped HS2, got rid of the 100,000 illegal albanians etc. The unions have obvs all co-ordinated the strikes. We're in the grip of the socialists, all institutions. Its wrecking the UK. There no end in sight, no leadership and labour set to be next leaders.

sorry but I just find your views almost hysterical, you’re practically echoing the likes of the daily mail headlines saying “in the grip of socialists” ffs really? Really?