Nurses striking

[no-no]

There must be exceptional circumstances. Usual NHS sick pay is 6 months full and 6 months half.
Aviva pay full pay for a year, and many other private companies have decent policies too.

Apparently Aviva now pay 26 weeks if you’ve been with them for over two years, it doesn’t increase past that with service. Still very generous and not the norm. I don’t know anywhere that has anything like NHS unless they’re on a far smaller scale.

Like @instasham13 I’ve worked with loads who didn’t need exceptional circs, they’d go off for 6 months, recover when their pay was going down to half and then take all their accrued leave.

 

[judgejohndeed]

ANPs are already there loads in primary care and physician associates. I haven't seen a FTF GP since before the pandemic and I have complex health conditions and medication. They can prescribe , they can't do sick notes but that's going to be phased in. I would be fuming if I was an ANP it's 50k salary but basically expected to take on most of the role of a doctor. This is what the government is doing piling on more responsibility and keeping pay static.

Yeah I have no issue with ANPs but I meant it's the same kind of person who says 'I want to see a real doctor' etc. I think if/when the NHS is overhauled there will be a huge increase in stuff like ANPs, nursing associates, physician associates - aren't they talking about giving more responsibilities to pharmacists too? I wouldn't be surprised if eventually they bring back that conversion course for nurses to qualify as doctors as well.

They still do the car thing now. Where my Mam works someone got pissed off and went around the staff car park scratching up cars from bonnet to boot. Security couldn’t tell them who had done it either.

It's so stupid I honestly don't know why anyone would pay for it.

 

[Tui]

Is it not that medicins sans frontiers? (Sp)
They’re volunteers I think x

Yeah it will be MSF or similar.

 

[Polythene Pam]

Haven’t seen but what does 'recruitment' even mean here? A campaign? If so - pointless. I have two friends who recently changed career to be a nurse, one did adult and one did child, both courses at the uni were oversubscribed. I don't think it is a lack of people wanting to do it in theory, but retention. It's no good recruiting a load more nurses if none of them will stay. Ultimately, there are not enough medical professionals for the NHS to function how it should. In a functional society, when you need more of a particular role, you pay it better and improve the conditions which in turn improves both recruitment AND retention. I completely understand that in a cost of living crisis and about to go into a recession, people will hear 27-33k and think 'hold on, that's a decent wage, it's not worth striking over' but the actual job nurses are having to do now for that salary is not one I personally would be willing to do for even one day on that wage. Not a chance. And that's the key part that's getting lost, the fact that Sunak thinks recruitment is where he should be focusing shows this government hasn't got a clue about the real issues so how can the public be expected to either.

What I will say about the impact on patient safety is again as someone on who works on personal injury/clinical negligence/professional regulation cases, every time I speak to a HCP right now I cross everything in my body that none of my loved ones have to set foot in a hospital or need an ambulance.

I know so many people are paid way less than £27k (which is an issue itself) but its really not the mega salary its portrayed as. Especially for that kind of job.
My partner earns £32k (in Norfolk, not London or SE) doing an administrative job with no entry requirements and no life or death consequences.

 

[gigilouxx]

Jesus. I'm not sure if you're aware how much of a dick you sound on this thread. You clearly think you're above everyone else and it really doesn't do your cause any justice.
Tesco workers were JUST AS IMPORTANT in the pandemic. Why don't you open up your surgery and see some patients so we don't all have to flock to a&e putting nurses under even more pressure.

Loool I love you

 

[Mummy442]

Protests, exposure, petitions, holding people accountable. I know what they are really doing and it's nothing to do with Vladimir Putin.

Sorry this sounds like something that should be on another thread as I m sure this thread is for discussing the nurses strikes and those for and against. Not sure if striking does not work a petition would do much good. Not entirely sure about your reference to Vladimir Putun either? Maybe you can elaborate?

 

[Yel]

I didn't think night staff got free parking but I guess it may differ place to place?

They should do starting after 7:30pm and finishing before 8am as it's a gov guidance, although I've no idea if they can say the car park has been sold off so it's not within their power.

Hospitals are often so difficult to get to on public transport. The cost of buses also can be ridiculously high so many working people have no choice but to run a car.

NHS car parking guidance 2022 for NHS trusts and NHS foundation trusts

www.gov.uk

.

 

[Gloria Rostron]

Perhaps in the very short term but those can be mitigated by trust planning. In the long term without addressing the NHS staffing crisis by making nursing a more attractive career and retaining the staff we have, then we are fucked so patient safety will only be further compromise d

Are they still forcing nursed to take the "covid vaccine" to be able to work?

 

[Jaceydooley]

And they will leave when they realise how undervalued they are and overstretched, the pay will always be crap and there’s more money by moving abroad or moving to the private sector or just leaving and people do leave nursing completely. Managers are not bothered, they don’t nurture the staff they have and in my experience are more interested in numbers rather than experience - they watch people leave and don’t (in my trust) bother with exit interviews to find out why people are leaving. So then they have a lack of staff and will poach international nurses. They aren’t allowed to take nurses from certain countries but will poach say an Indian nurse who’s working in Dubai. Then they will come and realise it isn’t the dream they were sold, get some experience and look elsewhere & the new one is trainee nursing associates to do the nurse’s job but on a lot less pay. I actually wrote this and I’ll honestly say I don’t know what the answer is. There was a mass exudous after Covid and I know everyone had it hard, and personally I’d have found it mentally worse in some ways if I was working from home, self employed or furloughed and was glad to still have a job to go to and mix with others and have company. I’m appreciative of all key workers and I couldn’t have coped without my local coop. BUT lots of nurses left after Covid because it was traumatic seeing so many people die and the factory like working conditions with people who could be anyone of your relatives. I do think there needs to be a reform on what a nurse does and how skilled they are, like in regular jobs. I personally would be shit in Aldi especially when people are slow to pack and the conveyer is backing up , I’m resigned to my role despite the pay and the conditions I enjoy looking after people and I’m skilled and good at it, would I like to be paid more. Yes. Do I deserve more pay? In my opinion yes, compared to other nurses who work in the same band who do a lot less, or those in a higher band who also do less. .

God I could have written this. Are you in my trust

 

[Polythene Pam]

This isn’t about other people. It’s not a race to the bottom. Sick of people comparing this situation to lowest income workers like that means everyone else should be grateful and never aspire to get the wage they deserve
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If you think like that then maybe we need to look to solve the nhs staffing crisis with nuns because people have a human right to a family life and also if we want to have nurses/midwives/hcas (and increasingly junior doctors) the majority being female then, yeah, we need to consider childcare to enable women to work in a society where women have careers and the traditional multi generational household no longer exists In white western culture

And to bring the next generation of nurses, doctors, and retail workers into the world.
Population decline is bad for everyone.

 

[Snowjoke]

Where? England, Scotland or Wales?

NI based but doesn’t matter, just wondering generally aa haven’t seen much media coverage on it for a wile now

 

[emm]

I think 38k is very good just looking it up band 5 nurses 2-4years qualified atm can get up to 29k? So 38k imo is a big difference, I do think after that amount time of time then they should be on higher than 29k. But think 40k+ should be for more specialised/senior nurses. My uncle is a nurse, has done extra training and gets 40k a year and his job doesn’t sound bad.
Also aren’t NHS pensions great? someone who works in pensions told me this and said it’s a huge benefit that rarely anyone else gets anymore.
I don’t understand this whole working in Aldi would pay more as that’s not true.

I think in terms of "Aldi pays more" it is more about the stress etc and the fact that the exact hours are paid, I know people who worked in care that just had to stay more hours to not leave colleagues alone and it was not paid

 

[Sodjdwjao]

It basically means “not a consultant”. The traditional medical culture is one of toxic infantilism which is really hard to convey until you’ve experienced it. The powers that be have renamed us so many times. We used to be called house officer, senior house officer, registrar then consultant. Then the new training pathways came in in the early 2000s and this creeping culture of making us sound as junior as possible. Senior house officer was officially outlawed for fear it gave nursing staff and others a mistaken impression that the doctor was in any way senior. Replaced with core trainee, or junior grade and now they’re suggesting “central doctor”. I wish I could make it make fucking sense but I can’t. Meanwhile someone can do a degree in sport science, 2 years training to be a physician associate and start on £44k 9-5 no on calls. And people wonder why doctors are mad.
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It’s about skills more than education. The university education for nursing, medicine etc is specific skills based programmes Focused at a specific job. I don’t begrudge tradesmen getting a decent wage, I can’t do their job so I need to pay them for their skills and expertise. Nurses and doctors are no different. You can’t easily replace a nurse or a doctor, just like retraining electricians etc takes considerable time and not everyone is up to the job. It’s about skills.

Maybe slightly controversial but interested in the answer, if you can get £44k 9-5 for less training then why wouldn’t you? Is it the general work of a doctor being more enjoyable than a physician associate or is it something else? (I’m not in the medical field at all and genuinely curious)

 

[Rosie glow]

no one said it was easy, why are you taking it as a personal attack?

being a low skilled job just reflects the amount of training required for it, it’s not a reflection on how hard or labour intensive it is. They are totally separate attributes.

I'm not taking it as a personal attack I'm simply saying it's not an unskilled job

 

[Tui]

Reviving this thread for anyone still interested. Pleased RCN members have voted to reject although it’s a weak vote and I fear without new leadership they are not going to fare well. I hope otherwise though

 

[Avenged7Fold]

It’s all a race to the bottom isn’t it

Sometimes hard choices have to be made. Do you stick with a job that you trained for but is making you miserable and not enough money, or do you find another job ?
You do what’s best for you.

 

[gigilouxx]

Yeh I bet they are privately owned now, I didn't think night staff got free parking but I guess it may differ place to place?
Terminal patients get free parking (at least where my relative was) but she had to have an awful phonecard to arrange it , in which the person asked her very bluntly about whether she was terminal and she broke.down and just hung up, awful

You get a card from ours for free parking for EOL and NICU I think that goes in the machine. Just shows how each different hospital are singing off diff song sheets
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Nothing the trusts do make any sense imo. Where I live there was a walk in centre in the middle of the town, they closed that, made it appointment only, then moved the walk in centre to Tameside hospital, but the reception is just the one in A&E, and they just bloody send you to A&E anyway or paediatrics, the walk in area is always empty. I took my eldest to A&E last year with a broken elbow and it just looked like another walk in centre because they’d sent all the kids with the usual toddler plagues up to A&E

 

[I_Like_Tractors]

Does anyone know of the bonus is a standard pay to all nhs nurses - or more goes to those who worked frontline with Covid, a lot of nurses who were shielding didn’t work at all, not their fault but just wondering if those who had direct contact working with Covid patients get more?! A lot of countries paid extra to those who were dealing with the worst, and some nurses have done this and some haven’t.

It's all NHS payroll staff, not just nursing/AHPs etc
I imagine it would be a nightmare to go through staff one by one to determine eligibility. Also I know A&C staff who despite not being clinical, were helping out on the frontline pushing trolleys, delivering PPE to where it was needed etc.

 

[Eltonjohnsflorist]

Well if you won’t say what it is I’ll be none the wiser and continue to believe no professions make you work for free to qualify tbh

 

[Blond3g1rl]

And they won’t be getting a very good DB pension either