Nurses striking

[Jane100]

I’m a nurse working on a ward, I have been qualified just over a year and feel stressed and exhausted constantly. I have never struggled with mental health but I now struggle sleeping, I’m losing weight and feel down all the time. I used to be a receptionist before deciding to do my nursing degree and wish I never made that choice. If I could turn back time I would choose literally any other degree. I’m still young only 24 so currently looking for any graduate schemes. It’s so sad, I am all for the strike however whatever pay rise they offer simply won’t magic more nurses into the system which is what we need. I’m not surprised nobody wants to do it.

 

[Yel]

People say it's an embarrassment the strikes now, I think actually it's a step in the right direction. Brits for too long have not striked while things get worse and worse.

Maybe it there had of been strikes ages ago then it wouldn't have ended up where we are today? So many aspects in society are in dire need of reform. It's way bigger than a few essential services.

 

[Jaceydooley]

The thing is people will do this. They will do what is best for them and their families. People will leave nursing completely or move abroad. And then we lose a nurse we can’t easily replace. Who is going to staff the NHS then? How can people not see the problem here?

I have just left my post as a senior band 5 nurse (which I LOVED) because the lack of staff and the recruiting of overseas nurses has made our job impossible. I have seen so many mistakes being made, way below substandard care and I can’t stay in this profession watching patients die. Yes I might be part of the problem leaving, but I have a family and if I end up in prison because of a mistake made Because of understaffing, my children would be left without a mother.
i think it’s really important to remember that when the shit hits the fan and the life of your loved one is in the balance, you would be personally willing to pay any amount of money for them to be saved.

 

[Rosie glow]

I think nurses saying they can't live on £33,000 is putting people's backs up as a full time retail worker my mum earns £18,200 a year she is single so no other income she pays all bills and has never used a food bank. If you can't live on £33,000 a year you need to look at your lifestyle. How many of them have a second wage coming in too

 

[Tui]

I have to agree with you, based on my experience of death in my family. As a nation, we aren’t good at handling death at all. The prerogative seems to be to avoid it at all costs, instead of accepting that it’s an inevitability for all of us.

My grandma meant the world to me… I absolutely adored her. But she had rapid onset dementia following the death of my grandpa and was a lifelong smoker with COPD in her 80s… it was her time to go but it just seemed to be the only recourse was to call 999 when things seemed bad for her (a few years ago). We couldn’t stand by at watch her struggle to breath and get ill without doing something.

At the time I was in a better place emotionally/mentally to accept her death than other members of my family. She’d deteriorated so badly it was a relief when she died for me, because the cycle of hospital visits was honestly more traumatic and undignified for her. Hospitals should be for people who have a chance of getting better.

I wish the stress and trauma of her being taken in and out of hospital wasn’t a thing. I wish calling 999 wasn’t the only “option” for us a family. But we didn’t feel we had any other recourse.

I wish there had been some sort of support for us to manage her decline in a dignified way at home, instead of the ups and downs of getting sick -> hospital admission -> stable again -> sick and then that cycle until she died. Community based care would have been a saviour. Not just for my grandma but for my wider family. It would have been more peaceful.

Being in and out of hospital seemed like a sad end to an otherwise full and happy life.
Mentally, she had already left us. It was just her body clinging on and it felt like an utter waste of time and money and resources to keep her body alive at that point.

Maybe that sounds harsh but that’s how it felt to me. I guess it’s a whole can of ethical worms though.

I completely agree as a doctor. I often look around and wonder why the feck are we putting 90 year olds through invasive procedures, scanning to look for cancers, round after round of antibiotics, I’ve even seen critical care getting called to see frail elderly patients for ?HDU/ICU. I do feel this is worse since COVID, I think partially because we cannot give good basic care anymore we try to do as much as possible even when we shouldn’t. Some of it is definitely unrealistic expectations also. But I think we are a victim of our own success in being able to extend peoples lives but also extend the period of time they spend unwell.

 

[unidentified]

Ah man this thread got out of hand but I knew the second anyone in healthcare spoke up they would be met with backlash. We should just shut up and put up because we chose this. Actually, yes, I choose to care, I choose to help people at their most vulnerable but when I qualified only 8 years ago it was a very different job to what it is now. Now I can’t care how people (anyone on this thread) deserve to be cared for. You deserve a safe team around you. I find it really sad people turn on others who finally take a stance on something. I will leave this here though.

 

[Caffeine Fiend]

Probably late to this thread as it seems to have descended into chaos.

However as a member of a union, I support the strikes. Im not going to sit here and say I know the full ins and outs of every demand across every workforce who is chosing to strike because I dont and I am acutely aware that the media like to twist the situation like saying workers have been offered 8% when its 4% one year and then 4% the next year. This isnt 8%

I think everyone should have the ability to withold labour if they feel they need to.

 

[under the ivy]

I can see both sides of the coin. I’m very much pro-strikes, not just with nurses but I can’t see how this will do anything for pay or conditions. We’ve had a Tory government for 13 years - if they would’ve given a pay increase, they would’ve done it now.

I think most of us are struggling money wise as well and finding it hard to make ends meet. Not a lot of people agree with me on this but I do think some nurses have a chip on their shoulder since Covid - my Nana has weekly district nurses and the amount of times I’ve been there when they visit and heard them say they don’t have time to do that (one example being they couldn’t change a leg ulcer dressing that had been on a week as the nurse ‘didn’t have time’ yet was the reason for her visit!). My boyfriends had a heart valve operation cancelled twice due to nurses strikes as well.

Basically our entire healthcare system needs overhauling starting from the bottom up; bringing back nursing bursaries, re-structuring NHS management etc.

 

[Tublet83]

But no one's pay has gone up with the cost of living crisis... This is the bit I don't get.
Everyone works hard and everyone believes they should be paid more.
I don't know anyone who has had a pay rise in line with inflation. We're all struggling not just nurses

Absolutely agree with this

 

[cee-bee]

O
I Work in retail I'm not comparing myself to a qualified nurse but I have 11 qualifications in different fields does that make me better than someone who cleans toilets for a living ? No it doesn't and being a nurse doesn't make you better than me.
Us as retail staff and many other workers worked throughout the pandemic too we didn't have any ppe we were put at risk too we just got on with it Where would the country of been with out us then, we got nothing out of it no pay rise.

I find people who wear “I worked through the pandemic” as a badge of honour, really odd.

most people in the U.K. worked through the pandemic. Myself included. I’ve never mentioned it as a bragging right though.

the difference between people who worked during the pandemic and nurses (and other medical professionals in general) is that nurses were exposing themselves to the sick, covid patients and working in environments were there was a much higher risk of covid. If they did catch covid, they got it worse than others because of viral load exposure. Their workload increased overnight, for a consistent period of time.

on top of that, they often didn’t have the correct equipment, were dealing with higher death rates (ergo more stressful, more traumatic etc, requiring more pastoral care).

that just isn’t comparable to someone who say, worked on a supermarket checkout through the pandemic. Neither is better or worse than the other, both jobs are important. Both carried risks and exposure to covid. But the risks aren’t the same.

Retail work (and I say this as someone who has worked as a cashier!) is a low skilled job. You can train for it within days. It’s wonderful that you have 11 quals, but you don’t need any qualifications to work in retail. The responsibilities are low.

For nurses, it takes years of training and the risks are high (both to themselves and their patients). Not comparable really.

I support the strike, I support all public sector strikes and wish there were more private sector ones. Strikes protect all of us. Even if the requests seem unfeasible, or if the outcome is less tangible - it still sends a strong signalling message. So yep nurses, strike away. I know they only do it if they feel they have no choice as the vast majority of nurses are committed to their profession and their patients.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I'll be upfront that I am very pro these strikes but I am baffled by the amount of misinformation about the salary nurses (fully qualified band 5s with NMC pins, not nursing associates, HCAs, etc) actually get on here, seen someone say they start on 20k which is false, but equally all these 'they earn 33k' - they only earn 33k when they've been a nurse for 4 years? They do not all earn 33k. Equally they start on 27k not 20k or any of the other bizarrely low figures quoted on here. This information is in the public domain so I don't know where the numbers are coming from.

I support the strikes because I know having represented nurses and doctors working in the NHS how bad the conditions are - even when I worked in A&E as a band 3 receptionist at uni it was pretty grim but it's definitely a lot worse now - and I have seen firsthand in my cases the damage that a lack of staff is having on patient safety. However I also think this message is very lost in how these strikes have been framed, and perhaps it is also unfortunate that they've been around the time of other strikes where pay has been key, so to the public it is probably easily all written down to 'we want more pay' which makes sense.

Also, I think it would be stupid to deny that for some nurses it probably is about pay - everyone wants to be paid more, who wouldn't? Some of the arguments I have no sympathy for, e.g. 'I'm at the top of band 5 so I will earn 33k now unless I ever progress to a band 6' well yes, that's because you are just doing the same job for years on end, there's only so much skill you can gain at the typical band 5 nursing tasks and if your job remains the same in terms of skill and difficulty then I'm not sure why you'd expect more money just for more years of doing the same tasks? The NHS is already unique in the sense that the banding system already rewards you for having more years experience at the same job (diff pay ranges for less than 2, 2-4/5 years, 5+ years experience) when plenty of people will do the exact same job for years on end without getting paid more for the same job. This is a different argument entirely to e.g. 'the nature of my job has changed so much that I ought to be better renumerated to reflect the conditions and risk involved'. So I do get why these strikes are going down badly with the public tbh, the messaging and branding has been very poor.

 

[Emsie]

Front line in Tesco probably

Jesus. I'm not sure if you're aware how much of a dick you sound on this thread. You clearly think you're above everyone else and it really doesn't do your cause any justice.
Tesco workers were JUST AS IMPORTANT in the pandemic. Why don't you open up your surgery and see some patients so we don't all have to flock to a&e putting nurses under even more pressure.

 

[OwlAtTheMoon]

I support the strike and everything the nurses are striking for: fairer pay, safer staffing levels, better working conditions and not least better patient care.

 

[IloveFridays]

I fully support the strikes! Not just the nurses but every one on strike the government have the money they choose to spend it in the wrong areas! Inflation is up due to profits not wages

 

[gigilouxx]

The thing is, to the public they are also experiencing a real terms pay cut and there sympathy is running out for these workers (mainly train/post). This is not an industry specific issue, this is a wider issue. As Yel has said, rent/housing cost, nursery costs, social cost etc are the issue that they could address to help everyone.

And I also think a big mistake was the uni/bursary issue. No nurse working in the NHS should be billed to get there.

I think sympathy is running out more because people unfortunately do have to live on a lot less than the workers striking. Same as the notion that nurses are relying on food banks, plenty of people on less aren’t relying on them. The wider issues need looking at, private rents are absolutely sickening at the minute, ex council houses still on council estates going for £700/£800 a month whereas the house next door is half of that, there’s no logic in it

 

[gigilouxx]

I’m absolutely over this “xyZ isn’t comparable to nursing”
Plenty of degree educated people work in supermarkets etc because they need a job quickly when they graduate and in some areas the jobs for specific skills are simply not there
Can we not moan now about shitty customers, understaffing and the crap wages we have no choice but to just deal with because nurses have it worse?
Probs me being picky but I cannot stand hearing the phrase low skilled workers, it feels degrading

 

[Gem74]

Don’t support the strikes at all. Nurses know what he pay is before even entering the workforce.
They are putting public health at risk.
Does the NHS in general need a rethink? Probably yes but this isn’t it and people are already turning on them.
If I had an operation cancelled due to the strikes I’d be fuming.
A lot of nurses had also been bullied into “supporting” the strikes.

Absolute bollocks and nothing anybody says will change my mind. They are better paid than most people

100% this. I am a nurse-20 years in nhs. Did not support the strikes but felt too intimidated to say. Instead told colleagues I was unison but promptly left RCN due to being disgusted when the 48hr strike was revealed. Imo striking is counter productive and I’m embarrassed at my colleagues and friends who jumped on the bandwagon.
Edit sorry if not making sense-v tired

 

[Hairraiser]

I’m an ex nurse and would never go back because it’s just not nursing any more. I liked the hands on approach. Spending my day giving out meds and keyboard bashing and shouting for the healthcare assistant when a patient wants to go to the toilet is not my idea of nursing. My friend is an HCA and they do the bulk of the work, blood tests, taking observations, feeding, washing, dressings etc. They aren’t striking, if they did the NHS would fall apart.
Nurses are vital, but they aren’t in the real world if they think they are going to get 16 percent.
The NHS needs a massive overhaul starting with nurses training going back to basics, and stop relying on the overworked and poorly paid HCAs
Rant over

Thank you for this. As a HCA of 10 years. I am paid peanuts and take the bulk of the work from 7-7:30. I can’t excuse that the nurses have their own workload and it can be very demanding too but their job like you say is mainly paperwork, tick boxes, audits & no patient hands on care. Changes need to be made across the whole of the NHS, not just the Nurses.

What I can’t get on board with is….

they’re striking for better conditions aswell as better pay.
They can’t just magic more staff which is the main issue here, they’re just going to be paid more to be understaffed and overworked!

 

[Yel]

People should definitely be paid for working while training. Otherwise it creates a barrier and reduces social mobility.

 

[Emsie]

Wtf? Nursing is a highly highly educated highly skilled professional role it’s in no way comparable to being a secretary or whatever other “little woman” job you’re comparing it to.

However I agree if it were male dominated it would pay 3x as much, as would midwifery. Theyre one of the very few professions where women excel at every level and that makes it even harder to see it disrespected

Secretaries are highly skilled too. Be careful your superiority is showing through. What I'm saying is there are many many more jobs for women than there were 50 years ago so ergo less people want to be nurses. It's not that difficult to imagine when 15 year olds are aspiring to be content creators more than anything else.