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Et tu Brute?

VIP Member
I don’t have an issue with trans people or anything LGBTQ+ related, what I do have issue with is eroding WOMEN’S rights. No I do not “chest feed”, I breast feed!!!! I’m not a “person with a womb” I’m a woman and I will not be made to feel less of one to appease the minority. It’s ludicrous. I’d probably get eaten alive for expressing my true feelings on the subject mind you 🤷🏻‍♀️
 
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VioletBear

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I feel so uncomfortable talking about trans issues for fear I’m taken the wrong way but I 100% do not agree that biologically born males should take part in women’s sports. The gender you were born affects your physiological make up regardless of what you gender you feel you are. Male born people who have gone through puberty naturally have higher muscle mass than female born people who will naturally have higher fat stores, giving male borns and unnatural advantage. Maybe they should create a gender neutral category 😂 I joke!!
 
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Lovecrisps

Chatty Member
😭 I avoided this thread all day yesterday because I was convinced it would be people tearing into the Let Women Speak crowd. I wasn't brave enough to attend probably as I'm not not on board with all that PP says and how it is said, but am completely shocked at how things are playing out these days. A huge group of people - including women - screaming abuse at women sharing their very real experiences and speaking truth about what a woman is. I'm so encouraged to see how the thread progressed through yesterday. On twitter it feels like it can't be reasoned with otherwise you're transphobic.

I agree with so many comments here, I believe there are some genuine cases, but to me it looks like two camps - one is the middle aged men who go OTT in their outfit choices but often keep their balding hair etc wearing fishnet tights, dresses, heels etc - I'm convinced the majority of these cases it's a sexual thing, a fetish. The second camp is the teenagers or others with mental health issues. In my generation (90s) many teenagers with body dysphoria had eating disorders, now when they're unhappy with their bodies they've voices all around championing the fact they're trans and just need to identify as the opposite gender. An old friend of mine has a son who is mid teens, autistic, has struggled socially and has a small group of friends. Now 3/4 of them are identifying as female. I sincerely doubt 3 teenage boys in one year are trans, let alone 3 in one friendship group. I work with teenage girls in a youth club and they have pupils turning up after summer holidays as one gender and by the end of the school year some are back as their original gender. We all know how difficult teenage years can be and it's horrifying that so many are willing to jump straight on to a doubt in a teenagers mind and possibly wreck their physical health as well as their mental health for life. I can't think of a single person who turned to my anorexic friend and said "yes you are fat" yet here we are saying "yes you are a boy" to a teenage girl who feels out of place.

Sorry for the rant, but I go online and am shocked and how so many women, and those who claim to be feminists too, are willing to give up so many rights and spaces and places for women to trans-women. I mean, trans-women facing the menopause. Get a grip.
 
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BANRÍON

Member
I feel out of my depth here and I think as someone brought up in a Protestant area although perhaps in the minority I could be wrong? My parents didn’t bring me up hating the other side and beyond going to the local primary school and secondary school that was my brush with other Protestants. We knew no paramilitaries and kept ourselves to ourselves always. I remember when I was little going to see the bands but beyond my mum loving the music that was it. When I grew up I had zero interest. I remember being terrified of what was happening here (born ‘72) and still am to be honest. I want to learn about Ireland and hate how things were and still are. I never felt any difference between the two sides except the streets we were born in and how that shaped so many peoples futures and how they think. I feel like you’ll just laugh at me to be honest, I don’t know how many times I’ve replied on this and then deleted it for fear of being laughed at. With regards to a United Ireland I have a fear that people like myself who were brought up in a Protestant area but are now extremely neutral in our political views will be treated the way Catholics have been treated for so many years. I wouldn’t blame them to be honest. My heart just breaks for this country and all of the people. There’s no way out of it. I just want peace and for my daughter to not have to hear the news every day where there’s been someone shot or a bomb. She’s the product of a mixed “religion” relationship even though he ex communicated himself and I’m a neutral atheist.

Im aware there aren’t paragraphs, apologies but I just had to get things out of my head 😞
I'm a ceasefire baby with a different experience than the previous few comments - I was raised in a very bitter protestant home, went to protestant schools, attended band parades all my life until I went to uni and started studying Irish history for myself. The amount of history I only learned by researching it for myself that I was never ever taught in school made me nothing short of ashamed. I'm now an Irish speaker, an Irish studies graduate and excited for the prospects of a new Ireland. With the mental health statistics in my age group, the issues surrounding drugs, paramilitaries, housing, pay, cost of living etc etc the last thing the up and coming voters give a damn about is religion and treating one religion different from the other. What we have right now doesn't work point blank, its out dated, running on old narratives and needs to be torn down and completely rebuilt from scratch, and if the way to do that is within a new united Ireland, then so be it.
 
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Griftymcgriftface

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That event let women speak is interesting. I'm fine with the trans community but I do have an issue with the language towards women in particular. I'm a woman no need for the cis. It's all gone slightly bananas and I don't pretend to understand it all though.
Look at that swimmer ‘Lia’ Thomas. Sex matters. If someone is uncomfortable in their sex and wants to be perceived as a different ‘gender’ then they should be treated with compassion but that doesn’t mean males who have gone through full male puberty should be taking women’s places in competitive sport.
 
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Tiggerhappy

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The whole trans debate is something I went down the rabbit hole about on mumsnet years ago. I love JK Rowling and the shit she has had thrown in her direction this last few years is disgusting. SHE is actually "stunning and brave", not the people attacking her.

Language matters, sex matters. No man will ever have a proper period, deliver a child, have a miscarriage etc etc. Like said up the thread, if an adult wishes to pay for hormones and surgery to change their bodies into something else, so be it. But their sex says the same. Gender is a social construct. Gender ideology is so dangerous and damaging, plays into stereotypes. You like football. You must be a boy. You like glitter. You are a girl. Giving drugs (cross sex hormones and puberty blockers) to children/teenagers is abhorrent and often leads to infertility.

There are some who have genuine body dysmorphia but most transwomen now are AGP males making the rest of us partake in their fetish. I think the world of sport is waking up to this, but some disciplines are still fully supportive of transwomen competing against women, which is both massively unfair and dangerous.

I'm no right winger ( I don't know that posie is RW but I'm actually not that big a fan of hers, she's a bit too aggressive), but it's only the Tories who haven't drank the cool aid over the water. Sunak has actually been very supportive of women to his credit. The southern parties are all very much TWAW unfortunately, despite the fact that MOST people don't believe this. People say "be kind". Fuck kindness. Be real. Be honest. Woman is not a feeling. I could wear a men's suit, y fronts, cut my hair short, grow a tache (might take a while, but not as long as I'd like), have my breasts removed, full hysterectomy and call myself Harry, but I'd still be female.

Very few heterosexual women are gonna be willingly entering a relationship with a transman. No doubt the number of heterosexual men who would be willing to shag a transwoman is vanishingly small, yet lesbians are being lambasted for being transphobic genital fetishists for not having sex with these 'lesbian' transwomen.

I got into a debate a couple of years ago with my (sometimes very dim) sister. Her friend has a young nephew who is trans. She was like "but if you seen this child, you'd understand. They just were born in the wrong body.. be kind etc etc etc"...

Last year the topic came up again around another relative and I said "don't be asking her, she fully believes we should just be kind" and she shook her head. No longer thinks he's trans as there were now 14 kids in his year saying the same thing.

My 11 yo niece was talking about what school she might go to next year and I said a certain school was all girls. "No, there's a boy there too. I think they are trans". Kids are being led to believe that people can change sex. It's actual madness.

This is a very disjointed ranty post. Apologies. But there's so much to say and all of it makes me cross.
 
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Wee Nora

VIP Member
The craic about Air Force One touching down at 9pm is a decoy folks. He arrived on the Stena Line this morning and went straight to Maggie Mays for a fry. He’s in Boojum now for a late lunch.
 
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fedupfatty

Well-known member
Nah I married a man, 16 odd years on I can just about tolerate him as a man 🤣 if he wanted to transition he’d be doing it as a divorcee.

Interestingly a colleague’s husband transitioned & they split. As a line manager I really struggled to get her specific support - all the trans charities etc were from supporting the husband point of view. Our generic employee help line could support with counselling for her and their teenage son but it’s almost like a bereavement for them as “he” is no longer. It really annoyed me though how not one trans charity or support site could even footnote resources to support friends and family outside of support your loved ones choices
 
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monga

VIP Member
There’s an MMA trans fighter that crushed her female opponents skull, it’s definitely not on In sporting competitions ,even the most puny man is stronger than a woman imo, same for sharing changing rooms and toilets if they’ve still got their meat and two veg attached.
 
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Wee Nora

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I might get lynched for this but I think some of those who claim to be trans do so only for attention or because they think it’s trendy. I went to school with a girl who I genuinely believe was born in the wrong body. She looked and sounded like a boy, had facial hair and was next level at athletics and sports but was also very shy and only spoke when she had to, I think that was because she had a very deep voice and was embarrassed 😢 She always looked totally uncomfortable in the girls uniform. I’m sure if we all think hard enough we could think of someone similar. I’d imagine if she was born in a different time she probably would’ve identified as male and eventually transitioned.
I do think cases like her are very rare though. In my opinion Sam Smith is a complete attention seeker. HE is no more non binary than I am. He’s a man who craves attention and as many column inches as he can get.
 
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VioletBear

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The gathering today seems to be people from both extremes. I totally agree that as a woman we have been oppressed for so long and as soon as we seem to be progressing in terms of equality this new language is being developed which strips back some of that identity. On other hand I do strongly feel for people who are not comfortable in the body they were born into and they should be able to live however they want to live but in order to do that it shouldn’t remove terms that identify me as a female.

I may get shot down for this but a trans female will never truly understand what it is like to be a woman, from the challenges we face from birth from gender stereotyping to the physiological challenges our bodies go through to societies expectations. It’s impossible, they will also never be treated like a true female as their trans identity will always come first and in that respect I do feel for trans women because as much as they really want to be female they will never truly understand it but I hope each and every person gets treated with respect and allowed to be who they want to be in their own right.
 
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BANRÍON

Member
Also - with the whole trans discussion, i have a close friend whose a trans man, has been transitioned fully for the last 4 years, even before he transitioned the whole friendship group seen him as a boy, its just who he is and always has been. The transition was absolutely GRUELLING, hell and took years. I dont know why anyone would ever choose to put themselves through what ive seen him go through.
I can understand it the best i can and I try to respect what people want to be called etc, but to a certain extent. At a point now where I feel like women are being excluded from their own spaces that they created. There is now a trans woman as the face of a tampon company in America, that trans women will never experience menstruation or ever even have the need to use period products, things like THAT bothers me. If we're inviting trans women in to the spaces we fought so hard to create for women, they need to recognise that its an invite and they're coming into our spaces. The experiences of women are miles different than the experiences of a trans women.
Someone said it above also, there are so many attention seeking situations nowadays, and it really eradicates the difficult experiences actual trans people have to face on the daily. I try to be so careful with language etc, and this is the first time ive ever said any of this out loud and it feels good lmao.
 
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msmith2006

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That event let women speak is interesting. I'm fine with the trans community but I do have an issue with the language towards women in particular. I'm a woman no need for the cis. It's all gone slightly bananas and I don't pretend to understand it all though.
completely agree!! keep seeing stuff like "pregnant people" or "people with a womb" ...you mean women??? sometimes I feel like trans rights are being put above women's rights these days. I totally support the world athletics council for excluding trans women who have gone through male puberty, surely that is just common fucking sense.
 
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Tiggerhappy

VIP Member
Twitter isn't not a good place to get a real idea of how the majority of people actually feel about this.

It's actually baffling how some otherwise respected professionals, organisations, governments, schools, prisons etc are willing to completely ignore biology in favour of feelz and whether someone does/does not wear lipstick. If I decide not to wear lipstick today (I don't always wear it, but today I'm sick so I'm definitely not gonna) does that make me a man? Can we start to ignore other areas of science? I have never been much of a fan of gravity. I would also like to opt out of menopause if that's possible? It's not here yet but I don't think it's for me. Actually I'd like to be 28 again. And have my 28 year old boobs back.

My Irish skin is so white I'm actually blue. Don't think I could ever quite look black, Asian or Hispanic even with a lot of fake tan on (I could maybe pass for Dutch (I often say my eldest looks Dutch because he tans so beautifully)), but when some do this they get called out for black fishing (cough... jesy nelson.. cough). There's a white woman in the states called Rachel Dalzell (I think) who identifies as black and she is (rightly) criticised by everyone. How is pretending to be the opposite sex any different? Race and sex are both supposed to be protected characteristics.
 
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msmith2006

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asked my husband the same thing. he said "probably not, no" , I said "why?" , he replied "cos I didn't marry you for your personality"

:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 
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msmith2006

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I really liked his post too. I've said it a few times but I do consider myself lucky to have grown up in a mixed household. it really allowed me to grow up without prejudice toward either "side".
I didn't know the difference between the dup or Sinn Fein until I was in my teens. ignorant? probably. but happy. I was aware my parents had faced difficulties being in a mixed relationship in the 80s but it was quite obvious that the love always surpassed any issues that were thrust their way!
 
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fedupfatty

Well-known member
I really liked his post too. I've said it a few times but I do consider myself lucky to have grown up in a mixed household. it really allowed me to grow up without prejudice toward either "side".
I didn't know the difference between the dup or Sinn Fein until I was in my teens. ignorant? probably. but happy. I was aware my parents had faced difficulties being in a mixed relationship in the 80s but it was quite obvious that the love always surpassed any issues that were thrust their way!
I wasn’t brought up in a mixed marriage but my dad had a life changing experience as part of the troubles. However whilst it was people from the opposite religion that caused it, it was also someone of the opposite religion that saved him , risking themselves to do so. It was always drummed into us that there are good and bad on both sides & you treat people as you find them not as others speak of them.

It’s hard to explain without going into details but I could’ve been brought up in a house bitter and angry against one side of the divide but instead it was a catalyst for my parents to ensure we never went down that route. I was 10 and asked my parents what religion I was as I didn’t know and someone at my summer scheme had asked 🤷‍♀️
 
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