Neil Gaiman

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Is anyone mentioning the Jonathan Ross connection? Ross groomed his now wife when she was 16 and he was 30. Ross’ wife produced the film adaptation of Neil Gaiman’s book Stardust. Neil frequently stayed at the Ross’ house in Florida and met up with them in London - he and Ross shared a love of comics and were close friends. Ross was there and took part in the phonecall that Russell Brand made to Andrew Sachs about his granddaughter.
 
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Is anyone mentioning the Jonathan Ross connection? Ross groomed his now wife when she was 16 and he was 30. Ross’ wife produced the film adaptation of Neil Gaiman’s book Stardust. Neil frequently stayed at the Ross’ house in Florida and met up with them in London - he and Ross shared a love of comics and were close friends. Ross was there and took part in the phonecall that Russell Brand made to Andrew Sachs about his granddaughter.
I went to 'an audience with' evenings around the time of the Stardust film with Neil Gaiman and Johnathan Ross was the interviewer. JR was very sycophantic towards Neil. I always had a suspicion that Neil had had an affair with Jane Goldman. I think Jane & Neil also worked together on the English language script for Princess Mononoke?
 
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That is a very intriguing idea. I am sure Jonathan and Jane split up for awhile and she was with someone before getting back together. Once a cheater....

It does make we wonder, Gaiman had a lot of celebrity friends. Who knew about all of this?
 
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That is a very intriguing idea. I am sure Jonathan and Jane split up for awhile and she was with someone before getting back together. Once a cheater....

It does make we wonder, Gaiman had a lot of celebrity friends. Who knew about all of this?
Yes, Jane ran off to Canada with Ed from Barenaked Ladies around 2003 and Jonathan was in the papers begging for her to come back. All evidence of it has since been removed from the internet at great expense to the Ross’s.
 
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I'm currently listening to the podcast and shot here because I KNEW there'd be a thread on him. I have no idea who Amanda Palmer is and don't really think much of Gaiman as I'm not into fantasy, although years ago I did read some rather unsettling stories by him and I didn't know whether I liked them or not.

I'm on episode 2, and feeling rather ill. It's clear that he is very manipulative and downright weird, but there isn't anything that I personally would categorise as abusive and Scarlett's texts to him are anything but discouraging. I'm not surprised people are struggling to see their relationship as anything but consensual based on the evidence thusfar. And yet I can see into her head, and have been there to the extent that I too have disassociated from my body during sex because I so badly didn't want it to happen; and have sent a few desperate friendly happy messages to bely how disgusting I felt. I can imagine how her longing to be accepted and nurtured made her continue with something she didn't enjoy because she enjoyed the rest of it, which seemed to be her being cared for and part of a family.

It would be deeply unfair of me to call what happened rape and I never would, but it affected me hugely. I wound up in hospital after it too and it took me years to come to terms with it. I don't think that is the fault of the bloke though.

Gaiman is significantly older than the man in my experience and GETTING INTO A BATH WITH HER is bloody weird to say the least. I do wonder what would have happened to Scarlett if she had said no, or stop. Because it does seem to be that you have to be explicit in your NO; the man doesn't have to get consent explicitly, but you have to withdraw it very clearly and firmly for it to count. ETA: I haven't heard any explicit "nos" in the podcast thusfar but can finally read the article and I see there are plenty of them!

I can see him genuinely believing that he didn't do anything wrong, probably because he has done it so many times before and hasn't heard "no" from anyone or been asked to examine his own behaviour.

It's very hard to get my head around all this. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else. I normally binge podcasts but I'm not sure I can do it with this one.
 
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I'm currently listening to the podcast and shot here because I KNEW there'd be a thread on him. I have no idea who Amanda Palmer is and don't really think much of Gaiman as I'm not into fantasy, although years ago I did read some rather unsettling stories by him and I didn't know whether I liked them or not.

I'm on episode 2, and feeling rather ill. It's clear that he is very manipulative and downright weird, but there isn't anything that I personally would categorise as abusive and Scarlett's texts to him are anything but discouraging. I'm not surprised people are struggling to see their relationship as anything but consensual based on the evidence thusfar. And yet I can see into her head, and have been there to the extent that I too have disassociated from my body during sex because I so badly didn't want it to happen; and have sent a few desperate friendly happy messages to bely how disgusting I felt. I can imagine how her longing to be accepted and nurtured made her continue with something she didn't enjoy because she enjoyed the rest of it, which seemed to be her being cared for and part of a family.

It would be deeply unfair of me to call what happened rape and I never would, but it affected me hugely. I wound up in hospital after it too and it took me years to come to terms with it. I don't think that is the fault of the bloke though.

Gaiman is significantly older than the man in my experience and GETTING INTO A BATH WITH HER is bloody weird to say the least. I do wonder what would have happened to Scarlett if she had said no, or stop. Because it does seem to be that you have to be explicit in your NO; the man doesn't have to get consent explicitly, but you have to withdraw it very clearly and firmly for it to count. ETA: I haven't heard any explicit "nos" in the podcast thusfar but can finally read the article and I see there are plenty of them!

I can see him genuinely believing that he didn't do anything wrong, probably because he has done it so many times before and hasn't heard "no" from anyone or been asked to examine his own behaviour.

It's very hard to get my head around all this. I don't know if this makes sense to anyone else. I normally binge podcasts but I'm not sure I can do it with this one.
Have you read the article? Due to British libel laws, and how many women had come forward, there is much more explicit evidence in the article.
 
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Ah I was wondering why the podcast was different! Yes I've read the article now in full. My God. Surely some charges can be brought? Scarlett's bravery going to the police was incredible.
 
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I listened to the podcast months ago and found it riveting. I felt it leaned more into the angle of consent within relationships and looked at how the law doesn't have a particularly nuanced take on that - but how it obviously doesn't mean it's right. For example, they had a lawyer say that the texts Scarlett sent Neil would make it hard to prosecute - it's unfair, but it's the reality of the situation.

I was surprised it was worked on by Rachel Johnson and it made me briefly think more of her - until she said some stupid comment about Greg Wallace, which was actually insane considering the topic of the podcast.

I do believe the women who've come forward and no matter what happens or gets 'proven' or prosecuted etc I think it's clear to see he deliberately targeted very vulnerable women.
 
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Yes - well most things in the podcast are legal (just!) but that doesn't make them right. Why, for example, did he feel he had the right to launch himself at Julia and push her back on the sofa? Surely he should establish consent beforehand? and yet, growing up I thought that kind of behaviour was the norm. I thought if a man grabbed you or kissed you with force, or without checking it was OK with you first, it was romantic. This article really hit home with me, and made me think about my own experiences and expectations. I wrote a lot of fiction growing up, and some of the dynamics/relationships in the stories are hard to read now.

7 Reasons So Many Guys Don’t Understand Sexual Consent | Cracked.com

I entirely believe the women who have told their stories. While much of what he is alleged to have done isn't illegal, that doesn't make it OK - and the fact that he had held onto emails from K (I think), producing one as 'proof' without context, says that he knew very well what he was doing. Also he was very careful with his own texts, as if knowing they would be produced as evidence one day. For someone who acts as if he has no control and who is very rough sexually, he is remarkably in control in other aspects of his life.

The texts from Scarlett will pretty much destroy a case, I'd imagine, because there is no nuance in text. Even if you put into context her emotions and her vulnerability, he hasn't done anything "wrong" (illegal) and he has clear evidence of her consent - which she admits. Which is, in reality, how it should be - it is a case of he said/she said, and he has the evidence to back up his story. But he is a deeply unpleasant man nonetheless. I'm uncomfortable with him being "cancelled" as I'd rather he continued to churn out his books and nobody bought them. That sends a clearer message than a publishing house dropping you because you're damaged goods (IMO).

I think he will also get a lot of people supporting him because he is bloody convincing with his soft eloquence and his "poor me, I've been so mistaken, poor muddled confused man" 'apology'. Also because his accusers continued to go out with him and sleep with him despite his appalling behaviour and asked him for money. People don't get WHY people do certain things (for example, a rape victim might become very promiscuous either as an attempt to reclaim their body or because they loathe it and see it as worthless - which then results in "oh, they cant' have been raped as they're sleeping around" judgements - and moreover they don't always want to. If you like NG - if he's your friend or an idol, you won't want to hear bad stuff about him. You'll cling to every excuse you can find to dismiss his accusers.
 
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I didn't say you did. Why would you think I'm referring to you? I agreed with you as these are my own musings.
 
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I thought if a man grabbed you or kissed you with force, or without checking it was OK with you first, it was romantic.
I am lucky that my encounters were all "checked" with a few words words or a meaningful look first. It is exciting to feel that a man is so full of desire he can barely contain himself. That's what all the romantic fiction and song lyrics and the joys of Spring are about. We were all silly teenagers once. Some men feel entitled to abuse that naivete and lurch and pounce on us, and it is rewarding to see this one get his comeuppance.
 
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Good point - it's understandable to some extent if he launches himself at you when he's 18. Not so when he's 38!
 
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He's soured his legacy and it's pretty hard to overlook that he's ruined his work going forward. Unfortunate for people involved in his books/productions but who wants to be involved in a rape scandal. It's pretty much the worst and at this stage he's trying to justify it. Hopefully those people can pivot to other authors or TV work.
 
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Imo the film of coraline is much better than the original book. The creative visuals enhance the story a lot and make it super creepy.

Studio Laika is one of the few places companies that makes full stop motion films. I hope that no one turns on them for what has happened.
 
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Shame that so many people will lose work because of his actions. I suppose there is no way that he wouldn’t profit off of it if the production did go ahead though, so probably no avoiding what’s happened.
 
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