Lucy Letby Case #81

[Pulltheotherone]

I absolutely believe that the family dynamics are completely off with that lot.
During time when court wasn’t sitting her mum was sat with that simpleton Janet Cox and was shrieking and crying whilst her dad was sitting in a completely different area just looking at the floor wishing it would swallow him up.
To me that's very telling - I think the dad knows she’s guilty deep down, the mother still blinkered or she’s too mad to comprehend.
They were so enmeshed, going to Cockington every year and the parents not wanting her to leave Hereford - it wasn’t normal by any stretch at her age. No romantic relationships ever it would seem - male or female.
Her dad was even at her house on the night of the first arrest … why ?
My take on this is that she’s been hurting babies since she first qualified but just in nasty subtle ways so a pinch here, tube dislodgement, quick feed and it escalated.
She may have even killed a baby on purpose ( I would put money on it ) or by mistake in the early days and enjoyed all the fuss given and something clicked for her - finally she has power.
I also think her main hatred and envy were the parents as I feel she wanted to hurt them almost more than the babies, she wanted to absolutely smash their world into pieces and she enjoyed that power she had over life and death and more importantly them, she knew she would never be a parent.
The daft doctor comes on the scene and finally a guy has noticed HER and it’s a brand new experience so this makes everything even more polarised and he showers her with praise but also feeds her with inside information on what’s being said and done by the consultants and hospital.
She contacted his wife over FB ffs … she’s a fruit loop.
All this plus a old tired hospital with abysmal leadership and management who were so blinkered by the need to hold onto their jobs that they shouldn’t have had in the first place and it’s the perfect storm for Letby.
The consultants had figured out what was going on but nobody listened and their own jobs were on the line and she going on a simply crazy killing spree.
That’s my take on this anyway - if you pitched this to Hollywood they would say it was too far fetched.

 

[juy7nhio]

I am a lawyer who may or may not work in related areas of law... I followed the trial religiously, being familiar with criminal trials and how substantial circumstantial evidence can add up, reading every single live update and Judith Moritz X updates from day one until the end. And I do believe she is guilty.

Also on the point of a shredder - someone who lies about something as silly as that, in a police interview with a solicitor present and with the awareness of how serious it is to lie and that the police will be searching her home & find the shredder - is absolutely capable of lying about everything else. It indicates how used to lying she was, and how much she underestimated the police and overestimated herself. In fact the lie about the shredder is a crucial indicator of who she is and how she operates.

The impression I got from watching her in the documentary is that number 1 she has ASPD and no 2, she is not very intelligent. Essentially, she is a bit simple and thought she would get away with her acts. It was a game to her, she enjoyed it because she is in effect a sociopath with no empathy.

 

[Tofino]

From the mother of one of the twin boys murdered - how do people defend this ….


The night everything changed

While recovering from a Caesarean section, the mother regularly visited the neonatal unit to bring breast milk. One evening, she approached her sons’ room and heard an intense scream she says she has “never heard anything like”.

Inside, she found Baby E crying with blood around his mouth. Lucy Letby was the only other person present.

The nurse told her the baby’s feeding tube had likely irritated his throat and reassured her a doctor had been called. Trusting the experienced nurse’s calm manner, the mother returned to her ward after being told not to worry.

Later, Baby E’s condition deteriorated dramatically. The parents watched through glass as medics attempted to resuscitate him. Eventually, they were told nothing more could be done.


“He died in our arms,” the mother recalled. At the time, doctors believed his death was linked to a bowel condition and prematurity, and no post-mortem examination was carried out.

Disturbing memories revisited

Following the baby’s death, Letby bathed him and dressed him in a little woollen gown, before giving him back to the parents to hold for a little bit longer.

Letby also presented the parents with a memory box containing a lock of hair, handprints and photographs, some taken without their knowledge. The gesture initially seemed comforting, but later became deeply unsettling.

The nurse also showed the parents a photo of Baby F “rolling over” to hug his twin’s teddy, something the parents later realised newborn babies are physically unable to do.

Medical experts would later conclude Baby E died from internal bleeding and an air embolism, deliberate acts for which Letby was convicted.

A second attack just 24 hours later

Within a day of losing one child, the parents faced another nightmare when Baby F suddenly deteriorated. He survived after emergency treatment, and doctors initially believed he had an infection.

Two years later, the family learned his intravenous feed had been deliberately poisoned with insulin. Now seven years old, he lives with severe learning difficulties and complex medical needs.

“There’s a consequence,” his mother said. “And he’s living with it.”

the police got the mother to draw on a diagram (just an outline of a baby face) of where the blood was and it was used as evidence. It was all around the mouth. The jury saw things like that which the Letby fans don’t have any clue about.

And I remember how compelling all the time stamps for both parents and Letby’s movements were and how the only conclusion anyone could come to is that Letby was lying in the notes and on the stand.

For Letby to be innocent, so many people including parents have to have been mistaken or deliberately lying, whilst Letby is the only one right about everything? It’s like the stupid argument that the mother’s phone records were incorrect because Myers “forgot” to check the timezone or something

Baby E’s mother was formidable against Myers cross examination too. She is so certain about what she remembers. I’ve said it a hundred times on these threads but she was the most compelling witness for me. And all backed up by phone records, her husbands testimony and the baby’s schedule.

 

[Mark81]

Not followed this thread , or the case particularly closely but I dont see how you can think shes innocent. Just from her behaviour alone, shes never fought like an innocent person, showed emotion or care for so many babies dying on her watch. Shes cold and detached, and resolved to her fate at the arrest. Then there is all the evidence.

The case for her innocence is clutching at straws, and all the experts on that panel come across as trying to make a name for themselves and taking advantage of a high profile case. Its well known these days that to stand out, take the opposite view of the majority. Calling that expert 'the star of our show' showed a complete lack of respect and appreciation of the sombre nature of the event.

And her friend comes across as bitter with an axe to grind against the hospitals and whole NHS system.

Finally, those AI/Digital replacements are weird and creepy and add nothing as they are emotionless. Just get actors like you always used to.

 

[LittleMy]

I came across this comment on a post about the case on FB last night. Now I’m never sure if it’s genuine as anyone can claim anything on there but I found it quite interesting (if it is):

 

[Shinythings]

I see the 'MaYbE sHe WaS NeUrOdIvErGEnT aNd MiSuNdErStOoD' crowd have started.

Pretty sure having Autism doesn't make you murder babies, Hun

 

[Tofino]

Some of the things people say in her defence are very worrying.

Is it because they are tiny babies that they seem to be dehumanised? Because I’m not certain these adults would feel the same if they found their GP had kept their medical records in their bedroom, as a way of keeping a record of all the patients they’ve spent time with. It’s fucking creepy.

 

[messytessy]

Right so I cant cope with the people saying shes been made a scapegoat!!!

Lets say some "higher ups" decided that something needs covered up and they decide to pin it on Lucy as their victim. What are the chances that she

• happens to have hundreds of confidential patient notes she has taken home, filed in chronological order, failed to shred when she had a working shredder in the house.

• stalked parents of deceased babies on Facebook. Including searching for them on christmas day.

• marked dates of the day the babies died in her diary

• fails to protest her innocence

• says she fails to remember certain babies, but evidence is found of her discussing with others about said babies.

• the death pattern followed her from night shift to day shift.

And there will be plenty more evidence I've forgotten that points to her that the 'big bosses' couldnt have planted to make Letby look guilty.

Even if some believe she didnt have a fair trial or whatever, I just cannot understand how anyone sees her as a scapegoat!

 

[raspberryjuice]

I’m about an hour in to the documentary now. I’ve been sat on the guilty side of the fence since day 1 and never had any doubt of that, but I’m even more convinced of her guilt after seeing her police interviews. I wonder if it’s enough to sway any of the morons people who believe she’s innocent.

She did this. She killed those babies. I hope she lives a long and isolated life rotting in her cell, and when she’s alone in the night in her old age someone creeps in to her cell and injects air in to her veins and stands by as she slowly dies. I hope the end is terrifying and painful for her. Cunt.

 

[Mrspowell]

It’s interesting when they say she doesn’t fit the bill of a ‘serial killer’ how their always ‘weirdos’ etc… actually I think it’s weird that she’s a young professional, with clearly no outside hobbies, no boyfriends, cats, her house was like an old ladies hoarders house (appreciate some of the footage is her parents but I specifically mean her house), clearly no interest in ‘aesthetic’ or fashion. Didn’t appear to be out doing anything else. Seems like a bit of a recluse to me, bar a few friends and the odd social occasion. Having worked in the nhs for years comparing her to nurses I have worked with of similar ages etc I’d say she’s actually pretty odd.

And what stands out to me and I’ll die on this hill, if I had been arrested for murder I didn’t commit, I would be HYSTERICAL. You’d have to ask me to actually stop talking i would want to give every bit of information I could possibly think of I’d want to go over every detail I’d want to prove I was innocent with every breath In my body. I couldn’t say ‘no comment’ I’d be full of fucking comments if I was being wrongly accused of something. I’d probably need sectioning. I’d likely drive myself insane trying to prove I was innocent of murdering babies. Even being asked why I’d searched parents on Facebook, I’d have to just say well yeah, I am so nosy, I’ve done it before, I can be a bit of a grief tourist, i wondered what they were like outside of the hospital. Even if it made me look a dick. I’d still answer. The cool calm collected, no comment, seemingly accepting her fate from day one? Guilty as sin

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

From the mother of one of the twin boys murdered - how do people defend this ….


The night everything changed

While recovering from a Caesarean section, the mother regularly visited the neonatal unit to bring breast milk. One evening, she approached her sons’ room and heard an intense scream she says she has “never heard anything like”.

Inside, she found Baby E crying with blood around his mouth. Lucy Letby was the only other person present.

The nurse told her the baby’s feeding tube had likely irritated his throat and reassured her a doctor had been called. Trusting the experienced nurse’s calm manner, the mother returned to her ward after being told not to worry.

Later, Baby E’s condition deteriorated dramatically. The parents watched through glass as medics attempted to resuscitate him. Eventually, they were told nothing more could be done.


“He died in our arms,” the mother recalled. At the time, doctors believed his death was linked to a bowel condition and prematurity, and no post-mortem examination was carried out.

Disturbing memories revisited

Following the baby’s death, Letby bathed him and dressed him in a little woollen gown, before giving him back to the parents to hold for a little bit longer.

Letby also presented the parents with a memory box containing a lock of hair, handprints and photographs, some taken without their knowledge. The gesture initially seemed comforting, but later became deeply unsettling.

The nurse also showed the parents a photo of Baby F “rolling over” to hug his twin’s teddy, something the parents later realised newborn babies are physically unable to do.

Medical experts would later conclude Baby E died from internal bleeding and an air embolism, deliberate acts for which Letby was convicted.

A second attack just 24 hours later

Within a day of losing one child, the parents faced another nightmare when Baby F suddenly deteriorated. He survived after emergency treatment, and doctors initially believed he had an infection.

Two years later, the family learned his intravenous feed had been deliberately poisoned with insulin. Now seven years old, he lives with severe learning difficulties and complex medical needs.

“There’s a consequence,” his mother said. “And he’s living with it.”

 

[ClaraPlum]

I’ve watched it. Some parts were maddening, but I actually thought that made it feel more balanced, and the prosecution did a good job countering the defence/pro-Letby arguments. I still don’t understand how anyone can justify the claim that understaffing led to babies being poisoned with insulin or suffering catastrophic liver injuries while in care

I don’t think a documentary of this length could ever do justice to the sheer scope of the case. It really needs at least a three-part series to explore the background, each charge, and each baby properly. The AI element was strange, as was her friend’s logic (“Lucy can’t be guilty because she’s my friend” ). The mum brought me to tears

The pro Letby crowd also need to remember that the parents are the true victims here. The fact that one mother saw the doctor discussing her baby’s care in a live news interview and that he was referred to as “the star of the show” is sickening and heartbreaking. These are real people with real babies, it’s not an excuse for you to get your five minutes of fame at these babies expense!

 

[BugglyWuggly]

Just watching this thinking about all of those poor parents. I have a child that was born within the time frame of this happening...they should have 9 and 10 year old kids now the same age as my child. With all the drama and interest in this case I think that's often forgotten

 

[LittleMy]

I wish they included some details apart from the disagreement of the air embolism diagnosis.

• Insulin poisoning, and why the amount couldn’t of been an “error”
• Liver injury that mirrored enough force of that of a car crash
• The twins that died in consecutive days that were doing so well, right after she got back from Holliday with a “bang” her words. With the sympathy note address to all THREE triplets
• The baby who’s mother found it with blood around her mouth from the tubes being dislodged with letby only in the room.
• The baby who was over fed by letby and vomited across a room which would NEVER happen of a baby that size.

Yes, exactly!

I was trying to point a lot of these things out on FB and people were actually like “yeh but how do YOU know all this stuff??”

Erm…because it was all in the live reporting from court at the time?!

Read the transcripts. Read them and understand them!!

I know better than to try to argue with clowns on Facebook but the innocent brigade are driving me barmy lately. It’s frustrating

 

[I'm not actually here]

I always think they’re the types that join these “X’s Army” type pages. They have an axe to grind with the NHS/police/authority in general and this gives them a platform to air their grievances. Their problems are most likely self-inflicted but they don’t have enough insight or self-awareness to realise it. They gain comfort and strength from feeling like part of a team railing against people or institutions they perceive to have power over them. Some of them won’t have the brain power to research what was actually presented and some of them take what they read in the newspapers at face value, they are easily captured by the emotive language and parrot what they have read without bothering to appraise the content. Then you get the clout chasers who have or want a profile and will get behind any cause that gives them airtime or column inches. You know the ones I mean. Finally you get the perverts and simps who fantasise about being her knight in shining armour and are so pathetically absorbed they don’t even care they are championing someone who has harmed and murdered actual living, longed for and loved babies. Weirdos the lot of them.

Personally, I'd offer them all Beef Wellington on mismatched plates. They won't have read about that either.

 

[MmmB777]

So Little Miss “they just came home with me” had chronologically ordered the handovers what a scatterbrain.

 

[Pulltheotherone]

Well well well !

I got my wish about the mother wailing but after watching this these are a few of my takeaways

She definitely put the dressing gown over the Lee cooper LEISURE suit for effect.

She can speak easily in interview about procedure but can’t remember details ? She’s lying and deflecting

Handover sheets in ORDER …. WTF but I wish we had had that detail from trial as it would have shut the simps up somewhat.

The mate Maisie is beyond weird as indeed are all her mates that have gone on record.

No wonder the other nurses ( if this is true ) blanked her it wouldn’t be because she was “ shy and quiet “ it would be because she was an utter FREAK.

Dewi & Dr Gibbs

Karen Rees is still a hideous disgusting slug.

She definitely emailed the police in order to look innocent and deflect.

The Chester house arrest looks like crocodile tears to me and very telling she ask if the house will be searched …. What a strange thing to say if you are indeed innocent ?

Shredder or lack of whilst it’s sat in her spare bedroom is chefs kiss.

Babies initials in her diary is just so bloody sad

All her arrests seem to me incredibly “ kind “ to her - certainly not how she made them out in court.

Kim Pilling has her sussed for sure.

The mate bleating that the defence didn’t call experts was laughable …. Letby didn’t have anyone to “ stand with her and offer an alternative explanation “ because nobody would as there wasn’t another explanation.

McDonald is a clout chasing clown who along with his experts want their 15 minutes in the sun.

If she wrote the notes as a “ form of therapy “ which seems to be the line these days then when she could tell the court about the post it notes during cross examination why did she say absolutely zilch ?

The New Yorker article did indeed sow the seeds of doubt as MM says as it was so factually incorrect.

MM mentions the unit being short staffed but Letby herself said staffing wasn’t an issue ON THE STAND !

As a band 5 nurse she wasn’t one of the highest qualified on the unit - again incorrect.

DE wasn’t the only expert witnesses called by the prosecution in this case but MM cannot let this go accusing him of touting for work - 6 experts gave evidence in total.

I wish Dr Gibbs had not said he had a “tiny tiny tiny guilt they got the wrong person” why say that ? The fact nobody saw her do it is how murderers tend to work !

She can’t even look at the police officer interviewing her after arrest.


The jury sat in court for 10 months listening to every piece of evidence and witness and they deliberated for almost 4 weeks, coming back with guilty, not guilty and no verdicts on the charges so they did their job to the letter.
It’s been rejected twice from the COA …. how much more “ evidence” do people need now ?
Insane.

 

[JarvisCockerSpaniel]

Did anyone clock when the policewoman in the bedroom said ‘I see you’ve got a tracksuit on so that’s probably going to be quite appropriate’

For some reason it sent me

And then Letby lobbed her crusty old dressing gown over the top.

 

[LittleMy]

What gets me is the whole “she’s a scapegoat” argument. A scapegoat for who exactly? The hospital management tried to protect and keep her at all costs, the consultants trying to whistleblow were not believed.

 

[MmmB777]

Here they are in happier times