Lucy Letby Case #8

[crumpets2]

I’m uncomfortable with the normalising of fb stalking in healthcare professionals. Yes it’s likely to happen, but should we be accepting it as a norm and brushing it off? I know it would make me uncomfortable if I was a patient and knew health care professionals looked me up. Equally, I’ve had nurses really freaked out after being found by patients who were showing signs of obsession towards them. Yes it’s out there for public, but you don’t have to actively search someone out. But this is my opinion, I appreciate others and I think it’s influenced by your own social media usage.

In my opinion, it’s wrong that she did it but it could sway either way - trophy, checking in to make sure they don’t suspect her etc, or it could be she’s genuinely caring and wants to make sure the families are okay as can be. I don’t agree with doing it but everyone feels differently about it. I feel we need more context, it says she searched for lots of people - we don’t know if this is random people or other families, I think that would be really telling if she searched for loads and loads of families. Just says to me she’s nosey. The other thing that gets me is the amount of times she searching but again it could sway either way. I think one search was on a one year anniversary of a child’s death but I believe this was just after her holiday in Ibiza where they claimed nothing happened whilst she was off, so she could of had a memory triggered.

Although it doesn’t literally say don’t search patients on Facebook - this is part of the NMC code focusing on respect of patients boundaries.

 

[riddleme89]

Also another baby deteriorated Lucy went on holiday and when she come back baby was celebrating a milestone suddenly the same night Lucy was back on shift after a week holiday that baby deteriorated but the baby was doing amazing and celebrating a milestone absolutely no reason she should have suddenly deteriorated like that .

all these are things that make me think guilty we Are only on child A it’s far to early to say not guilty in my personal opinion.

 

[struggs123]

I’m uncomfortable with the normalising of fb stalking in healthcare professionals. Yes it’s likely to happen, but should we be accepting it as a norm and brushing it off? I know it would make me uncomfortable if I was a patient and knew health care professionals looked me up. Equally, I’ve had nurses really freaked out after being found by patients who were showing signs of obsession towards them. Yes it’s out there for public, but you don’t have to actively search someone out. But this is my opinion, I appreciate others and I think it’s influenced by your own social media usage.

In my opinion, it’s wrong that she did it but it could sway either way - trophy, checking in to make sure they don’t suspect her etc, or it could be she’s genuinely caring and wants to make sure the families are okay as can be. I don’t agree with doing it but everyone feels differently about it. I feel we need more context, it says she searched for lots of people - we don’t know if this is random people or other families, I think that would be really telling if she searched for loads and loads of families. Just says to me she’s nosey. The other thing that gets me is the amount of times she searching but again it could sway either way. I think one search was on a one year anniversary of a child’s death but I believe this was just after her holiday in Ibiza where they claimed nothing happened whilst she was off, so she could of had a memory triggered.

Although it doesn’t literally say don’t search patients on Facebook - this is part of the NMC code focusing on respect of patients boundaries.

Well yes but the issue of whether it's ethical to look someone up on social media and whether it's an indicator of guilt in this case are very different things. The reality is that anyone can search someone else- the postie who sees your name on post, people who see your ID when you buy alcohol, delivery drivers- anyone can and will never be caught unless it comes up relating to something else as this has. The only way to ensure it doesn't happen is to lock down your security settings on social media so a) it doesn't matter really as they can't see anything or b) they won't be able to find you in the first place. Those seemingly claiming it means she must be guilty are reaching though imo, or saying its so unusual no one would unless they had sinister motives.

 

[jackolantern]

I hope they do have some seriously compelling evidence because as much as I do believe she's guilty, it's scary to think she could be sentenced to life based on the crap they've come out with so far.

 

[crumpets2]

Im not convinced yet that she murdered these precious babies but things that are coming out about Facebook are quite concerning for a professional - if she really messaged parents on Facebook I feel that’s wrong and unprofessional. Could be purely consensual and innocent from the tone but it’s not a good boundary IMO

I get the feeling she didn’t respect boundaries. Still doesn’t mean guilty like, but extremely unprofessional.

 

[Former_Antelopee]

Not really relevant to the case but not taking their temperatures because the ‘babies don’t like it” seems like a really poor excuse to me.

I don’t think it does necessarily as if they don’t like it, it’ll cause stress which then may cause other issues?

 

[Tofino]

I know the whole ‘innocent until proven’ guilty thing for right at this point in time, but in my head what the prosecution will be trying to prove is

1: there was an opportunity for Lucy (and only Lucy) to inject a dose of air into the bloodstream shortly before the collapse.

2: that a collapse would occur very quickly after air embolus

3: the most likely cause of collapse and death (for each individual baby) is air embolus. And rule out other causes such as going too long without fluids.

I really want to know the location of the second nurse when Lucy administered the IV bag (and flushed the lines etc). If Lucy was on her own then the prosecution have proved the first point to me.

repeat this for the majority of the 22 cases and it’s pretty clear what my decision would be regardless of facebook etc.

 

[freaknasty]

Alot of not remembering from this nurse.

Wonder if its not a conspiracy cover up as such but once police have got involved and zoned in on Lucy alot of individuals realised they could cover up their own individual fuck ups by shifting the blame onto the oddball nurse.

To be fair it was 7 years ago and at the time she didn’t know it was anything other than a normal day.

 

[TheotherMaryBerry]

I do think it's odd that people are so concerned about being looked up on Facebook. I do agree it's unethical for a medical professional to look patients up but (as someone who doesn't have any social media) I kind of think it's madness to have a publicly accessible profile on social media, post details of your life, and then be surprised that people look at it!

 

[MyWayOrTheHighway]

I am wondering whether Baby A not having fluids for a couple of hours is more significant than is being presented? Does anyone on here have any insight to this contributing to Baby A’s collapse or is it very unlikely? God it’s all just too sad, think I need to take a break from reading all of this!

 

[Nelly's mum]

Absolutely but I do still think the context is important. If babies were being turned away at the time due to beds or they could have been stepped down in care and they were run ragged then I can understand it. If she's just sat round bored hoping some sick babies get admitted so she's got something to do then she's a fuck up.

LL is either the unluckiest bastard in the world or she is a seriously fucked up baby killer.
Time (and evidence) will tell, but if she is guilty she will not have the same responses and motivation of a 'normal' person, normal behaviour will not apply to her.

 

[candyland_]

Ok so I’ve gone down more of a badger set than a rabbit hole here …. I was searching and looking at some of the articles on FB where people share the news story’s and seen two comments from two separate people:
( these comments are over 4/5 years old and I’ve removed names)

“She was my sons nurse throughout the 7/8 weeks he was in SCBU at Chester ... She made my mothers day card took pictures of my son for us and kept in contact after messaging me on Facebook. In complete shock....”

“She looked after my baby in January & was probably one of the most pleasant , helpful and polite nurse's to care for ****** so to say im shocked is an understatement”

Inappropriate of her to message them.

 

[jackolantern]

I just find it crazy that people can talk her 'out' of so many situations and that still doesn't ring alarm bells. Like weird comments she's made about the boredom, the note, the searches, the sheer number of babies etc etc. We've said it before but while yes on their own (well except the latter), you might be able to explain it, all together, doesn't that strike you as a huge red flag?

 

[InchSchlong]

Is that at the discretion of the Judge? I seem to remember at the end of Arthur's case the Judge intervened to add that Thomas could be given a manslaughter charge if they were struggling with the murder conviction.


Oh god this hurts my heart so much of course it's absolutely tragic these babies died, but the picture we've had painted is that they were stable, well on the way to getting home etc and all these little 'mistakes' make me feel like the unit was just run ragged and these poor babies were struggling so much

It's so so tragic and I so desperately want answers for the families of these babies, but with what I've heard I don't think the answer is in the form of Lucy Letby, not for this baby at least. I get the feeling that they had babies sicker than they could handle and a combination of poor staffing, management, severe fatigue and mistakes has cost dearly.

I mean this nurses story is somewhat inconsistent, it's almost like she's trying not to implicate herself in making mistakes.

 

[Whythough]

Unless the baby had hypoglycemia or severe electrolyte imbalance 2 hours without fluid is unlikely to cause harm.
It's difficult to site lines in such tiny veins and can take a few attempts and breaks are given if numerous attempts have been made and usually a more senior medic will attempt . So a few hours without fluids if more common than you may think.

 

[sassmaster3000]

I think we can all agree that whilst it is inappropriate to look patients up on social media, it does still happen, and it doesn’t necessarily make someone a murderer.
I think we should move on from this piece of evidence as there will surely be more compelling things come to light that will sway the jury one way or another.

 

[MmmB777]

That’s very confusing… how can he be changing his mind now about something which happened 6 years ago?

I think he’s actually referring to his statement not now 6 years later that he knows it was ok. So he knows that now, because at the time he was a junior doctor and when he became more experienced he now knows it was ok. He would be breaking the law quite seriously if he was lying about that. But I appreciate some people might think that he is.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

I can see why this is going to take 6 months. I think We are still on the agreed facts! I am assuming there is going to be agreed facts for each individual charge! The prosecution hasn’t even got started yet let alone the defence. It is going to be a very long winded trial, not a bad thing. But I guess currently all we can do is speculate and not come to any real conclusions. I wonder how many threads we are going to get through by the time this is all over!

 

[Instafamousssss]

Little off topic since the texts between LL and her colleague has been discussed but it does seem weird to me that her colleague was definitely suggesting something fishy was going on going by what she said and LL just completely brushed it off. If my colleague were to elude to the way in which 3 babies had died being suspicious I would be texting them back asking for more of their thoughts or why they think that because surely that’s absolutely obscene in this field of work to suggest something like that and I’d imagine not something that happens often. Just strikes me as weird how LL didn’t press for more information on her thoughts AND immediately knew what she was talking about. (Btw I’m on the fence completely)

 

[Wellthisisinteresting]

These poor parents having a sick baby/ requiring lots of extra care, which passes away, contacted later by the police with suspicion of them being murdered by a potential serial killer … I can’t even fathom the pain, either way this trial goes it was either murder or gross incompetence