Lucy Letby Case #8

[Helpimafish]

I only see people have a problem with it when it contradicts their POV I’m here for it personally

Not intending to derail but I don't have the option to report posts for some reason. I've been lurking and reading along this thread. You're consistently making sarcastic jibes and belittling others when they don't conform to your exact view point. It's an thread to discuss people's various opinions on the case. It is possible to have polar opposite thoughts to another person and discuss it in a polite, informative way rather than sarcastic responses and head blown emojis. Just like the majority of the other people are doing here. It's provocative and unnecessary.

In other news, I am firmly sat on the fence. Nothing I have heard, YET, has convinced me even slightly of her guilt. I am acutely aware 6 months is a long time and there is a lot of evidence yet to be heard so I am completely open minded. I feel horrifically for the parents in this situation. My youngest daughter had a stint in neonatal when she was born and it was the most traumatic experience of my life. Let alone finding out someone has allegedly hurt her intentionally. Just doesn't bear thinking about.

 

[bringingdownthebs]

I’m glad you mentioned this because I was torn about bringing it up.

I’ve held off being judgemental about her Facebook searches because I’m sure as shit people I know would be concerned about me having spent hours and hours since this trial began on this website. I’d actually be very embarrassed about it. If someone asked me why I’m doing it I’d struggle to give a valid explanation. I agree with any arguments people could make about wanting justice for families, being interested because they might be affected by it etc. I also think generally within society morbid curiousity/fascination with true crime has become normalised.

But am I going to judge a woman’s Facebook searches (of people she probably had some form of emotional connection with) when I’ve spent hours and hours of my life reading comments from strangers about a murder case that does not involve me… no course I’m not! Clearly a lot of us have online habits that other people would find incredibly weird. Tattle being one of them!

totally agree with this! It’s clear to see from reading through the threads on here that a lot of us work for the NHS too. If (god forbid) we got accused of something really serious at work and they checked our internet history… I’ve spent hours upon hours of my life on here! (That’s probably evident from my ‘VIP’ title ) I wonder how that would be viewed out of the context of it all!! Especially the amount I post on this thread! It’s totally innocent but could easily be twisted!!

 

[Emmelina Ball]

Ok so I’ve gone down more of a badger set than a rabbit hole here …. I was searching and looking at some of the articles on FB where people share the news story’s and seen two comments from two separate people:
( these comments are over 4/5 years old and I’ve removed names)

“She was my sons nurse throughout the 7/8 weeks he was in SCBU at Chester ... She made my mothers day card took pictures of my son for us and kept in contact after messaging me on Facebook. In complete shock....”

“She looked after my baby in January & was probably one of the most pleasant , helpful and polite nurse's to care for ****** so to say im shocked is an understatement”

Im not convinced yet that she murdered these precious babies but things that are coming out about Facebook are quite concerning for a professional - if she really messaged parents on Facebook I feel that’s wrong and unprofessional. Could be purely consensual and innocent from the tone but it’s not a good boundary IMO

 

[Weebles Wobble]

Before everything went online we had a local newspaper in Newcastle and there was always a double page of birthday posts, engagements etc.

Lucy is roughly the same age as my youngest child and I'm in my 60's.
It was quite common to make announcements in the local paper about 18th and 21st birthdays and other landmarks. Graduation wasn't quite as usual but many families did this. As SM increased in popularity many people switched over to using this for the announcements instead.

So Lucy's parents putting the two announcements in the local paper wouldn't be unusual at that time.

 

[Wowitsme]

If you haven’t documented it then how would you remember something that happened 7 years ago it’s highly realistic if she hasn’t documented who administered it then she wouldn’t remember.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Can I ask, asking genuinely not arsey lol. I fully get people wouldn't remember things but whenever Lucy doesn't remember things it's deemed sinister and a sign of guilt, anyone else it's a perfectly normal thing to expect they can't remember things after so long? How come?

*asides from the obvious fact she's on trial*

 

[Tangerine Cat]

I believe that this is what would be called a monumental fuck up! Basically this baby was medically neglected from the very start of its life. Any number of the issues highlighted could have caused their death, the 3 attemps at the umbilical cannula, the fact that one was left in situ in the wrong position, dehydration.

They've said the baby was "stable". Given that respiratory rate had been rising, as had lactate levels during the day also been increasing, I'd argue that this baby was nowhere near as stable as has been made out!

well said! I followed this yesterday and was gobsmacked.

I wouldn’t say a baby requiring CPR and transferring to NICU was 'doing well' at all and I don’t recall any further tweet about the baby not receiving fluids for more than four hours.

 

[Daisydunn15]

Even private profiles have their profile & cover photos accessible to all, they can’t be made
private but why do medical professionals want to look at our personal photos is surely the point here not what we share! I know this is a boring point as it’s been argued 1000s times throughout threads, but it’s really horrible & creepy for medical professionals
to be even thinking of snooping into your private
life uninvited, we’re not your colleagues or customers, we’re your patients who you meet at our most vulnerable times! Arguments I’ve seen such as we’re only human we like to have a nose don’t wash, just be a bloody professional & stop it! If you’re a nurse & going home to snoop on patients you’re not bloody right go & speak to your manager to get the help you desperately need!

Saying that people are mentally not right and need help cos they've looked on someone's fb is reaching a bit

 

[jackolantern]

#searchgate

 

[avabella]

I just can't understand the thinking behind a pre-term, low birthweight baby not having had fluids for 4 hours, the stress of a misplaced line twice, respiratory changes, being seen to be 'jittery', temperature not taken consistently. Yet it was apparently a surprise when the poor bubba crashed. My heart hurts today thinking about these poor babies.

 

[Lackofimagination]

Not really relevant to the case but not taking their temperatures because the ‘babies don’t like it” seems like a really poor excuse to me.

To an extremely vulnerable fragile prem baby sometimes even the mothers can’t hold their babies as it can cause to much stress to the baby. Stress not as in they don’t like it but stress which can affect the vital stats. I highly doubt they would keep babies away from mothers unless they stress on the babies body was huge. I’m not medically trained but I’d say it’s the same thing for the temp. If the baby is stable and most is ok and jt had been taken an hour or so before I can see why it was missed. I was just using the not letting the mums hold their babies as a example of how serious any movement on the baby can be. At times.

 

[CandyPink99]

It’s so hard to follow this thread so I’ve been catching up bits and pieces and then following the twitter threads. I feel like I might be jumped on as I’m not sure what the majority is here.
Usually when something like this happens my instant thought is ‘done it!’ and the trial/evidence confirms it. Theirs something about this case that has me on the fence, I just don’t know which way it will go and which camp to fully put myself in.

 

[avabella]

The nurse being present in the room with LL when Baby A deteriorated isn’t really the picture that the prosecution was painting. They had me believing that she was alone.

It feels like the prosecution have acted like the movie trailers - making the film look bloody decent in the intro but actually the whole thing is crap. Today has swayed me towards innocent for sure.

 

[sickofsm]

Today's evidence has just seemed... shocking in a way. I have no knowledge of healthcare/hospital and especially not neonatal units, but is it usual for catheters to be placed wrongly not once but twice, and a baby not to be receiving fluids for hours?

Being brutally honest, it sounds like this unit operated by the seat of its pants and it was only a matter of time before something major messed up.

The UVC being inserted incorrectly isn't uncommon, it's quite a tricky procedure, especially if there is a tiny, compromised umbilical cord. There are two arteries and a vein in the umbilical cord. Sometimes they insert via the wrong vessel, sometimes the catheter hasn't reached where it is supposed to. And the more tries, the more 'messy' the cord gets, the more difficult it is to secure the line.

But having no fluids for hours is very poor practice, especially for a vulnerable baby receiving respiratory support. They are already prone to dropping blood sugars. Temporary fluids through a peripheral cannula meantime is best practice and more than that, it's vital. It doesn't say if they were struggling to gain peripheral access. If they were, this suggests to me the baby was poorly perfused / compromised from birth, and in that case the consultant should have been involved to gain access ASAP. Not left for 4 hours without fluids.

 

[freaknasty]

I know we aren’t having thread titles for these but can we PLEASE have

Lucy Letby #9 READ THE WIKI

So many people are asking things we already know and it’s so much to trawl through

 

[wideningperspective]

I have followed this case since the start and have remained with an open mind. However, I can’t help but feel anger for these babies and their families. As a nurse I have witnessed the bullying/blame culture within and out-with the NHS. The NMC are our Governing body and rightly so but there is a systemic culture, inflicting fear to all registered nurses. The fear your name will be placed on a public register for anything you do wrong. This doesn’t happen to the Police or to other medical professionals when they make an error. I was lucky to have had many approachable consultants but in early days (10years ago) the nurse did not have much of a say, despite them knowing and caring for their patients longer and more intensely. The team I am in now is just brilliant in terms of those multidisciplinary relationships. Patient care and treatment is nothing less than excellent. I also have to state that most of the major errors over the years that I have witnessed have been caused by medics. We have now thankfully moved to a stage where speaking out and raising safety concerns is heard more than it was back then. I suppose what I am saying is that what perhaps we are dealing with here is a deflection from the failures caused by the unit as a whole. LL is either guilty with a very high level of cognitive empathy, but no actual empathy and with psychopathic traits (I struggle to see this) or she and others have made mistakes, with her taking the blame.

 

[avabella]

I do hope as time goes on that the low level sarcastic jibes can be put to rest and perhaps engage in civil, adult type discussion that is more effective for everyone

The Facebook messages are a moot point really, if any of the parents had felt it wholly inappropriate they could have escalated it to the appropriate channels - I'm assuming they didn't and were happy to engage, as other posters of preemie babies have said here.

 

[jackolantern]

As much as I think their evidence is crap so far, I really just can't shake the feeling she's guilty as sin and of so much more than this. For me it all just comes down to the sheer amount of cases, I can't bring myself to believe it's physically possible to be chance, regardless of how many hours she worked. Even if she worked 168 hours a week and tended to every single child, there shouldn't have been that many deaths.

*Also the garden thing tbf. You don't dig someone's personal garden up for no reason, it's not like if she did murder the babies, she was burying them there. So what the fuck else do they think she's done?

 

[sickofsm]

Dr Harkness made a note at the time that the longline was too far forward and needed to be moved back. But he now disagrees with the observation he made at the time.
Then he says if the line had been further in towards the heart it could have caused problems leading to the deterioration. But it wasn’t… according to him now but not what he noted at the time

Very odd. I also find it odd that a junior doctor was being left to make decisions on the placement central lines. Can't speak for everywhere, but our unit protocol is that a consultant reviews all xrays of central lines and ultimately makes the decision on whether they are safe to use or not. Hopefully the xrays of this baby are still available and will be analysed and evidence given. These lines are so risky if not correctly placed. I've saw babies lose limbs or become paralysed due to central lines. Rare, but it happens. Even when they are in place correctly, they can migrate.

Also to add, when a baby sadly passes away, all lines and cannulas are left in situ when a post mortem is to be carried out. You are not allowed to remove anything. Would also like to know if this was the case in these babies

 

[Lucyxxxx]

Anyone else feel sorry for witness Miss.Taylor, she was only doing her job and is now dragged into a potential serial killer case

To be the fair same could be said about Lucy.