Lucy Letby Case #32

[Lucyxxxx]

Me and my ball and chain have decided we are gonna go sit in at some point. I asked him to have the kids so I can go and he was like 'shall we both go' yesssss lad that's the spirit. Got him engrossed now aint I!

 

[gigilouxx]

It’s more the fact that BM spent the last week or 2 basically saying babies have crashed when she’s supposedly not on shift only for the dozy cunt to say yeah she came in at night off shift. Then proceeded to say cos it’s quiet no nothing dodgy there at all

 

[od12839]

This is kind of where I'm coming from. There's many places where a neutral answer would be fine, but she jumps straight into outright denial. I hate armchair psychiatry but it really is a bit like.... someone who knows too much. Someone trying to act innocent but going a bit far. I read some of her answers and I think 'Lucy you're a nurse! It's perfectly normal for you to be in the room with a baby! You don't need to create an alibi if you didn't do anything wrong!!'

Quoting my own post because I can't shut up today, but I just want to elaborate on that last bit because I realised why it bothers me so much.

Remember that Ben Myers doesn't actually concede most of these being murder, he's pushing that they were poor care, infection, natural causes.

So he's saying "There was no murder", but Lucy is saying "I couldn't have murdered the baby because I wasn't in the room". There's a mis-match. Again, you don't need an alibi for a crime that didn't happen.

 

[EffingDust]

I'd bet money she got into nursing to find a way to satisfy her urges. Sick f*ck.

Are we allowed curse on Tattle btw??

Fucking hope so

just not allowed in thread titles I don’t think, which is a non-issue as rightfully we don’t have competitions on thread titles for murder trials.

otherwise this thread would be called “BNE tied up in Docmums cellar whilst Della C has got the wrong fella”

 

[stardust1]

Again, not necessarily. I know with Star’s trial it came out that Frankie had a cognitive assessment that she scraped the barrel with which gave a *lot* of context to her time of the stand. I don’t think that’s what is in play here though, LL is clearly very clever, but I’ve got spidey sense that there’s something underlying.

i just get underlying cunt vibes tbf

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I hope I word this right and it doesn't come across too weird.... but I want to thank you all for making following this trial bearable.

It's horrific and heinous but being able to laugh outloud at the ridiculousness on this thread makes it so much easier to deal with it when it feels like it could get overwhelming.

I feel it's important to bare witness to this trial and to not look away from it because it's uncomfortable. I hope whatever the outcome (I pray she is put away) that changes will be made to prevent the Letby's of this world having the opportunity to indulge their twisted compulsions to begin with.

 

[Caledonianprincess]

Before we all get caught up in today's evidence, happy induction day @Caledonianprincess. Hoping everything goes well and you'll soon be snuggling your new bundle of joy. We'll all write you cards and take pictures of them to prove what lovely people we are.

Thank you very much for the well wishes, my bag is packed and ready to go and I'm so ready for it to be 5pm. I will keep all updated

 

[yellowmellow]

"I cAn'T rEcaLL"

 

[Okgolightly]

Lucy be like...

I don't have a shredder, but I do have a shredder but it's not in its box, but the box is near the shredder but it's not in my house and it's used for bank statements except it's not used for bank statements because I don't know how to use a shredder although I do use the shredder at work for handover sheets but students don't get handover sheets unless they're me when I got loads and I saved them in a box called keep so that I could shred them later in a shredder than I don't have and don't know how to use and isn't at my house....

live footage of Lucy in the dock

 

[CelinaRoger]

I really thought she may be NG and had voted NG throughout on here, thinking that alot of things could be easily explained innocently by her, but omg this cross examination had already made me think 100% G! She has no solid explanation for anything, whereas if she was actually innocent things would be so easily explained by her?! I really thought there could be a logical explanation for a fair few parts of the prosecutions case, but no chance, she is a vile baby killer, and how she managed it I will never understand as she comes across thick as shit on the stand.

 

[yellowmellow]

I bet BM's gone out to chain smoke for an hour.

 

[LittleMy]

I hope I’m never up in court for a crime. Those artist sketches are not the least bit flattering

 

[nosycowmoo]

I would love to hear your court experience today if you don’t mind sharing! What a shame for you that they finished early though.

I couldn’t believe it was called off it looked like it was going to be, then they said back on in 5 but actually that was just to say it was ending. I found soooo much out in the morning though. I will write up all for anyone interested this aft and post it here.

 

[Tofino]

The ‘no, no’ followed by asking for a break makes me think she’s starting to lose her cool a bit. I think she’s feeling rattled.

 

[OldBlondie]

By handling it well, I personally wasn’t necessarily meaning in a believable way for people on here (and anyone else firmly in the guilty camp) more in a way that legal peeps would consider. So if I was talking to a client after they had given evidence and I felt they handled it well, I would tell them that. She isn’t snapping, being rude, shouting, raising her voice, being obnoxious etc. There have been a few answers that I have felt (again legal hat on) that she has given that would make certain people think “well she won that one over NJ”.

She isn’t letting him bully her into changing her answers or admitting things that she doesn’t want to - again handling it well. She is standing up to him in a respectful way, presuming the reporting is relatively accurate.

I so wish there were cameras allowed in Court and we were getting live streaming.

I don’t think the lying principle applies to criminal cases, but I have heard judges say it so many times when giving judgement in my area of law.

I am actually a bit bored of her being cross examined as I don’t get the feeling we are going to get a real slam dunk/mic drop kind of moment. I am really, really interested to see if the defence have any expert witnesses and to hear their defence and cross.

I agree that the way her memory works is see through mostly. However, PTSD would affect her memory and given the length of time since the crimes were committed it wouldn’t be unreasonable for recollections to differ. I worry that the jury will take that on board.

I also can’t get over the stupidity of her still keeping handover notes after the first arrest and search. Why did she not destroy them then? It’s bizarre to me that someone could be that stupid.

With the greatest respect I completely disagree with what you are saying in both posts about LL coming off well, and NJ not having done anything particularly special today. @MmmB777 wrote a really good post earlier about all the points that NJ had made, the contradictions, the lies and some other really clever stuff he’d done today. You may not feel the same in a legal sense that he has done much, but in the sense of the jury that doesn’t really matter.

You also should be aware with “your legal hat on” that one of the main reasons LL would keep handover sheets etc is because many many serial killers, especially health cares ones keep their trophies, they are unable to throw them out, nothing to do with being stupid.

I think there already have been mic drop moments yesterday and today, this is only the start too so I expect he’s saving the best for last. He’s already hot her to admit massive things to the prosecution, such as the fact swipe data means absolutely nothing for defence, tou can’t underestimate how useful that is for the prosecution, it literally blows some of her alleged alibis out the water, how’s that not a mic drop, plus the whole shredder thing

I’m honestly baffled how you think she’s done well today. She also accused another nurse of murdering baby A, she said Dr J was lying she said there was a conspiracy against her, she said there was deffo a murderer on the ward, but it wasn’t her (the insulin) and she blamed a newly qualified nurse and admitted she wamted to be in nursery one but lied about finding the other nurseries boring. I mean these are massive massive things in her defence, the fact Dr J was not called out by BM shows he was not expecting LL to change her story to he wasn’t there at all.
It’s crazy how different people hear different things from the exact same testimony
---

I've just listened to the DM podcast. This was all about her being questioned by BM. Discussion took place around baby K, the baby where Dr J allegedly caught her doing nothing and which she has denied everything and basically called him a liar. It was mentioned that baby K was only at COCH for 12 hours and then went to AH and sadly died I think 3 days later. That baby was looked after by Joanne Williams and LL was briefly asked to watch the baby whilst JW went to speak to the parents. Yet 2 years and 2 months later she's looking up the parents. Her answer to the searches is you never forget the babies you care for. As the baby was there for only 12 hours and under the care of another nurse it seems strange to be doing a search 2 years and 2 months later. This was before she was ever arrested so the searches weren't because she had been arrested and questioned. To me this adds even more weight to Dr J's claims of what he saw that day being completely true.

Another example of how well today has gone for the prosecution

 

[MmmB777]

So.. I believe now that she called baby B’s mum on purpose during baby Ds resus.
I believe she caused the issues and confusion around how much Adrenalin baby M had received in their resus- I think that’s why she was interested in the paper towel and kept it.
I believe she had her “pin prick” during baby Ps resus for similar reasons.
I believe she took too long getting the camera for baby Bs rash to be photographed.
I honestly think she’s done every little part she could. She is evil.

 

[LittleMy]

Oh there’s been a few having a go at Tattle over there. I would’ve screenshot but don’t want to clog the thread with their shite.
The way they idol worship a potential serial killer makes me want to puke.

ETA: Quite happy to use Tof’s Wiki though eh?

 

[nosycowmoo]

Wow.
Can I just ask....did you hear Ben Myers sobbing at all? 🫠

No ha ha, inside I guess he was! my gosh all I could think was she was digging herself a hole so big she was about to reach Australia. I can’t remember exactly at which part but he even asked her a question in so many ways she wasn’t answering so he said ok so I’ll take that as you’re refusing to answer. Between that and the changing wording or denying the agreed facts saying she’d never heard it before (even though it was read out in court) it wasn’t good no wonder she wanted a break, she was tripping herself up so many times, I was on the fence… till yesterday
---

No ha ha, inside I guess he was! my gosh all I could think was she was digging herself a hole so big she was about to reach Australia. I can’t remember exactly at which part but he even asked her a question in so many ways she wasn’t answering so he said ok so I’ll take that as you’re refusing to answer. Between that and the changing wording or denying the agreed facts saying she’d never heard it before (even though it was read out in court) it wasn’t good no wonder she wanted a break, she was tripping herself up so many times, I was on the fence… till yesterday

Oh and at one point he said at what point between it being read out at the beginning of the trial and now did you decide you wanted to change your answer and she was just like

 

[Tofino]

Someone asked can barristers from the same chambers represent opposing parties - the answer is yes as all barristers are self employed. Chambers does not employ them so there is no conflict of interest.

Now please don’t come for me people (remember I’ve hopped off the fence into the G camp now!) but with my legal hat on I agree with the sentiment that NJ isn’t doing as good a job of “destroying” LL’s case as it appears. My immediate thoughts when reading all the live reporting was from what has been reported, she is handling it really well.

Now I am not saying that he isn’t pointing out inconsistencies etc but if her responses are reported accurately (and his questions) combined with her staying calm (I think BBC or Sky reported that, can’t remember which) then he isn’t doing the kind of mic drop job you see portrayed in films/tv series. Partly that is because real life court is nothing like it is portrayed in the media. There doesn’t seem to be, so far at least, any “gotcha” moments as there were when the prosecution had Savannah Brockhill on the stand. That was a work of legal art in my opinion. The kind of thing I find really sexy (please don’t tell my wife as I think the prosecutor was male and she may be concerned that I’ve turned straight.)

In family law there is a ruling/legal principle that judges have to remind themselves of when giving judgement/making decisions. It is that just because someone tells one lie in evidence it doesn’t mean everything they say is a lie, and that even if it is many lies, it still doesn’t mean everything is a lie and the judge cannot hold that against them.

Also, the significance of NJ being told by the judge that he will not allow him to ask that question again shouldn’t be ignored.

Question for the medical peeps on here - are all confidential waste bins sealed so you can only put things in and not retrieve (a bit like a sharps bin)? I ask because when we had our baby in November on post natal ward our bay was directly opposite a room that contained the milk fridges, bottle making equipment, some drugs were kept in there and right by the door (which was always propped open) there was a confidential waste bin which had sharps bin type lid on it, so I presume you couldn’t retrieve from it. I only recall it as it was right by the door and corridor was so narrow it was one step from the door to our bay which was always open. So every time I left the bay I would see it.

I still can’t get over her taking the note from the bin. There is just no reasonable explanation for that and to me it screams of a serial killers trophy.

I don’t understand what ‘handling it really well’ actually means in this context though (I’ve seen it used on Reddit too). I’m not expecting her to argue, snap (like brockhill, as she’s never come across as agressive as her) or suddenly confess under pressure etc. although I do see some smart arse replies just delivered less bolshy.

I think she’s giving controlled answers in the sense she is careful to deny/not recall anything that could be incriminating.

but I don’t think she’s handling it well in a clever, honest, believable way. If she was handling it well she would have had a better answer for things like the paperwork. She wouldn’t try to suggest Mel Taylor might have caused an air embolism, she wouldn’t try to throw every colleague under the bus, she wasn’t even a grade six nurse so it’s not like she was top of the pecking order anyway. Plus many other things that I could pick out from today. It doesn’t matter to me if she’s giving her answers in a calm controlled way, her actual answers are still bullshit.

If I am remembering correctly the gotcha moment with Savannah actually happened after defence had rested their case because it was only when they recalled a witness for rebuttal they proved the Snapchat issue. NJ has only just started.

I get what you are saying about one lie doesn’t make everything a lie, I think with a complex case even if innocent you might misremember stuff and make a mistake, but it’s already very clear she is lying about a lot and her memory is selective.

She is only able to remember the things that help her case. She can never remember things that are incriminating. I don’t know why there are people not seeing this.

 

[MmmB777]

More I think about it.. there’s been literally loads today not bat and ball at all.
He got her to say that she thinks Mel Taylor killed baby A. He got her to bang on about how shit Sophie E was. He got her to admit she had opportunity for A-C when BM spent the last few days trying to make it all look ambiguous.
He pinpointed exactly how much she text and how it was mainly when in room 3 and clearly showed she’s lying when she said she didn’t do it from clinical areas because it’s either that she was or she was hardly ever in clinical areas then. Texting constantly doesn’t fit with the dedicated caring nurse always striving to do her best that BM tried to paint her as.
Floating the idea that 4 doctors had it in for her which has never really been said before and he’s able to say well how does that work. He’s asking her how staff shortages come into play as she spent the last few days saying that caused it all and then all she can really say is baby A didn’t get its fluids in a quick enough timeframe.. what and that’s why they dropped dead when she was at the cotside? He nailed her on the air for baby A and that it’s the same as found in others so if she’s said Mel T caused baby A’s air embolism, who caused D and Os? None of these things have been explicitly spelt out before.
Oh wow just had a new podcast alert!