Lucy Letby Case #23

[HSJ]

Long time follower / never posted on a thread before Lucy was in the year below me at University. I’m not an RGN so never crossed paths with her clinically but probably did in a lecture hall to corridor. She would have qualified in 2011 so presumably went straight to the Women’s for a while and then did her extra training / became a
Band 6 and moved to Chester. I know some of the nurses having to give evidence in court as they were in my year. I don’t imagine they’ll be able to keep practicing or ever trust a colleague ever again. It blows my mind.

On a side note my son was born in June 2016. I was due to have him at Chester, when I rang the ward the first time they said to ring back when my contractions had sped up. I did so about a hour later and they informed me the NICU ward had suddenly had restrictions placed on it and subsequently labour ward was full so I had to go to a different hospital. I’m not sure if this is directly related to Lucy but I always thought it might be. We live over the welsh boarder so I went to Glan Clwyd - something that I’m forever grateful for. Had both my babies there with fantastic care. I’m not sure on the exact time lines as to whether Lucy would have still been on the ward in a clinical capacity / but a few children that my son goes to school with we’re nursed by her.My babies were term and healthy at birth but the thought my gives me shivers. Thanks for the updates on this thread everyone - it’s been helpful to follow 🫶

 

[Tofino]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...nearly-begged-surviving-triplet-hospital.html

Extra details here. Very scathing testimony from an unnamed (female) doctor

 

[MmmB777]

I literally cannot wait to hear what will come out about her after the trial.

I mean we’re defo meeting back here when the documentary lands aren’t we

 

[whatisityoucan'tface]

She is pure evil . That poor mother to have both her babies die within hours of each other just so sad

This might be a controversial opinion, but if she did this, imo she's worse than Harold Shipman.

His victims slipped away in a morphine haze in armchairs. Those babies would have felt the pain and distress of the attacks and attempted resuscitations.

 

[mRsKbRoOkS]

Todays evidence from doctor B!!! Expressed concerns after baby O and requested that letby shouldn’t be allowed back until child O’s death had been properly investigated!! He was refused wtf. And then she strikes again. Evil evil evil. I think she knew they were closing in on her which is why she ramped up her attacks

 

[F1Grid]

To me it seems LL was 'in' with the doctors rather than the nurses.

1. She was living in junior doctors accommodation initially
2. Dr B said it can't be 'Nice Lucy' when someone first raised her being with the babies that died in unusual ways.
3. Dr V is texting her about how their faces both don't fit and leaving to Aus
4. Dr No Name is balls deep and talks about being reassured when she's on

Meanwhile with the nurses she has no respect for them at all...

1. In Child C, the nurse in charge tells her to stay out of room 1. LL goes in anyway.
2. Nurse then tells her to stay out of the family room. LL goes in anyway.
3. In Child I she brags about being more experienced than the nurse looking after her, which is why she could magically see in the dark
4. Also in Child I the nurse looking after says 'She's going to do it again' and LL shuts her down... right before the next deterioration.
5. Child O the nurse felt LL was undermining her when she suggested moving Child O to room 1.

The doctors, who rotate and spend little one on one time with the nurses seemed to like her. The nurses, who are stuck with her all day long, she's a bitch to.

 

[DellaC]

If you can remember the anniversary of a babies death to search their parents FB. You can remember why you searched it.

It's that simple for me.

 

[raspberryjuice]

I really can’t get my head around them not listening and taking the concerns seriously at the first conversation it was raised. Because of my job a lot of investigations in to staff conduct fall to me, and every single accusation is treated seriously. I’ve investigated everything from minor things like someone stealing ‘free’ tea bags from the canteen right up to serious things like someone causing an accident that resulted in a life changing injury. Everyone who comes to me is listened to and their concerns taken seriously. If I find no evidence then fine, but at least my conscience is clear because I’ve listened and taken any worries seriously. I would rather waste hours of my week looking in to something and finding no case to answer or discovering the allegation was malicious than just do nothing.

In her shoes rather than my own there is not a single scenario I can picture where a consultant, in a responsible role, trusted with the care of hundreds or thousands of patients every year, could come to me and accuse a nurse of harming and killing babies and id dismiss his worries without even starting a basic investigation. It takes so much to report someone for things, even more to accuse them of harming the babies she is being trusted to care for.

I can’t get my head around today at all to be honest. It blows my mind.

 

[PsychoticPrincess]

For anyone wondering what scarf she was wearing today, it was this lovely sequin number.

 

[Tofino]

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...e-warnings-Lucy-Letby-responsible-deaths.html

There’s a bit more detail in the Mail report.
I could pick out lots and I feel so much for Dr B. But what Karen said (BIB) is worse than what we’ve heard already.


Dr Brearey told the court that even before the twins' deaths, he and some of his colleagues had raised concerns with management about the association between Letby's presence and deaths they had seen on the unit.

'I phoned Karen Rees, the duty executive in urgent care, who was familiar with the concerns already.
'I explained what had happened and said I didn't want Nurse Letby to come back to work the following day or until this was investigated properly. Karen said no to that, and (that) there was no evidence.

'The crux of the conversation was that I then put to her ''Was she happy to take responsibility for this decision in view of the fact that myself and consultant colleagues would not be happy with Nurse Letby going to work the following day?''
'She responded ''Yes, she would be happy''.

I said ''Would you be happy if something happened to any of the babies the following day?'' She said ''Yes''.

'That's where the conversation ended. We had conversations with executives the following week when action was taken.'

 

[PsychoticPrincess]

She couldn’t find a sparkly beanie hat to go with her scarf either so..

Oh but she did…

 

[DellaC]

I will show my bum on the town hall steps if she takes the stand.

 

[Haveyouanywool]

From Sky. No more events.

 

[Treesy19]

Wow I didn’t know this: one in over 200 million odds on having identical triplets conceived naturally. And the mother got to 33 weeks carrying them and they were all over the four pounds mark. That’s just incredible. They were meant to make it - they were until Letby got her hands on them the surviving triplet has a lot on his shoulders to understand when he gets older

 

[Tofino]

Baby K is the one that gets me. The baby was only in the Countess of Chester for about a day. And Lucy only ‘cared’ for her briefly whilst the designated nurse went to see the parents. Why would she even remember the baby to search for her? Would she even know the baby died after being transferred to another hospital a few days later and she wasn’t designated nurse?

There’s a reason why she remembers that baby.

 

[JCMSadie]

I can't get my head around how blithely the execs dismissed the concerns of senior, very experienced medical staff with evidence that babies were in danger. At the very least, even if you didn't believe the accusation, you'd look into it from a bullying standpoint as it's such a wild accusation to make.

She's definitely fudged her LinkedIn timeline to disguise her involvement, so is obviously aware of her culpability. Though not enough to realise she isn't cut out for such high level (and high paying!) roles, judging by her continued career. Same as that other exec. If that was me, I'd have felt too guilty and responsible to keep chasing such influential jobs...the lack of introspection and self awareness of these higher ups is disgusting. All these dead babies, destroyed families and traumatised staff left in the wake of their catastrophic decisions...and they just skip happily on to their next big bucks leadership roles. I know they aren't the killers, but they were the enablers. Vile, and horrifying.

 

[Tofino]

I just keep thinking back to Savannah Brockhill who was caught on cctv hitting little Star Hobson then googling on her phone about bruises, also the only person in the room when Star collapsed and even said on the phone to 999 ‘I called mum in…’

really really clear cut case yet she still took the stand and tried to claim she was doing ‘the claw’ from the mask.

Emma Tustin also very clear cut because of the cctv in the house and the catastrophic injuries poor Arthur died from. Again she took the stand.

I guess it would be easier for Lucy to tie herself in knots because the case is so complex but even when clearly guilty, defendants do that the stand.

Just trying to convince myself that she will because I really, really want to hear what she has to say and be cross examined.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Pyscopathy isn’t a diagnosi, it’s kinda lumped in with antisocial PD. But If she is diagnosed with something, we just know it’s going to be a cluster B personality disorder.

Give me an N Give me a P give me a D

I have said before here early on in the trial that I was unfortunate enough to have a NPD mother. Letby's messages, behavior, her feigned empathy, her control freak tendencies and her need to look down her nose at others (ideas of grandure) ring very close to home to me. Along with her immense cruelty within limits she thought she would get away with.

The inappropriate reactions to emotional events are what 100% had me believing she was guilty nearly from the start (that and the fact it's just not realistic for anyone to be that unlucky). My mother would be cold and unfeeling until the majority of the time, parroting phrases she heard people say before trying to fit in, but if something really bad happened she would unleash either only with me (ie not in front of people) which is what I imagine happening when she hurt these babies or she would overreact with tears and screeching and dramatics in front of others for sympathy (I think this is how she genuinely thought people reacted when they were upset) which would pass as soon as they left etc. like it never happened. She would manufacture a lot of these kinds of events too so I always knew there was no way she was actually upset about them.

Nobody believed my mother was guilty either. They still don't. When you're dealing which these kinds of crimes you need to be able to think the unthinkable otherwise these people get to live their whole lives destroying all around them. They can't help it, they have no impulse control once the urge takes them. They are quite childlike in ways (like evil demon children ).

This isn't intended for sympathy, just to explain why I feel as strongly as I do about this evil piece of shit!! And also why so much of the innocuous evidence and examples of her behaviour that a lot of people wanted to innocently explain away made the hairs on the back of my neck stand up.

 

[F1Grid]

A few things are fitting with the opening now...

Child O continued to deteriorate, and a Dr John Gibbs was called to the unit, who asked Lucy Letby how many shots of adrenaline had been administered, and Lucy said she was not sure, three or four. Dr Gibbs replied: "Well, what was it, Three or four?" Lucy Letby appeared to be referring to a scrap of paper for records which had yet to be updated.

...

Letby said Child O had died on the student's first day of a four-week placement. She adds who was on duty that day.

From O's evidence, 23rd June 2016

The court hears because Child O had died in unusual circumstances, Child P was reviewed by Dr Gibbs at 6pm. The abdomen was “full … mildly distended”. There was no tenderness and he had active bowel sounds – good signs.

...

A doctor was hopeful of Chils P's prospects.

The court hears Letby said to her something like:"he’s not leaving here alive is he?"

Child P's final collapse came at 3.14pm and, despite resuscitative efforts, he died at 4pm.

From the opening statement for P, 24th June 2016

Lucy Letby was "extremely emotional" and "in pieces" after Child P passed away. She was "in floods of tears", the mother said. A doctor also arrived and "was also upset".

From O/P's parents, 24th June 2016

The prosecution say Lucy Letby was "worried" when she got home that night.

She texted a doctor at 10.46pm and asked "do I need to be worried about what Dr G was asking?"

The doctor sought to put her mind at rest and told her that Dr G was only asking to make sure that the normal procedures were carried out. She replied that after Child Q had collapsed she (LL) had walked into the equipment room and Dr G had been asking the other nurse who was present in the room (when Child Q had collapsed) and how quickly someone had gone to him because she (LL) had not been there.

She continued her texts to the doctor, telling him that she had needed to go to her designated baby in room 1.

From the opening statement for Q, 25th June 2016

The doctor messages Letby on Monday, June 27 about the care for Child Q, and a Facebook conversation takes place.

A reference is made to clarify paperwork for a prescription for Child O during the resuscitation attempts.

On June 29, a Datix form is filed in which Child O 'suddenly and unexpectedly collapsed'.

Letby files a Datix form on June 30, in which it was recorded that equipment required for a procedure during resuscitation was not available on the unit.

From O's evidence.

She wasn't upset for baby O and P when she cried at those parents, she cried because she knew she was done for. Dr Gibbs clearly knew by this point. Her shitty little Datix and blaming the student nurse is to try and shift blame.

 

[gimmethattea]

Isn't it lovely for people like Karen Rees.
She gets to remain in high paying careers, reaping rewards and praise, while these poor parents go through the worst pain imaginable and then they get dragged through it all over again for a police investigation, which leads to a trial where they hear that doctors were expressing concerns and asking Lucy Letby be removed, only for them to say no. This decision then makes it easy for Lucy to continue her horrible acts until something is done.

The nerve of people like Karen to start making it harder to find her online (she knows what she's been part of) and to continue to be in such high positions is sickening.

I know Lucy is the one to do these awful crimes and she should definitely be punished for what she's done, but I honestly don't know how people like Karen sleep at night, knowing that if they had just listened, they may have prevented babies dying.

I'm beyond mad for these poor families and these poor babies. I hope Lucy is locked away for a very long time and I hope those who enabled her to continue receive their just dues too.

ETA - I'm adding that I'm mad for all the staff who tried their absolute hardest to save all these little babies and who continued to raise their concerns and fight for them to be listened. I can't imagine the amount of stress and emotional distress that put on all of them in what already just be a very high emotional and stressful job.