Lucy Letby #5

[upyernelly]

Lucy does fit the profile of a perpetrator of fabricated and induced illness.
From the evidence presented so far,
Lucy requested the difficult cases as she was the most qualified but was often found in other rooms and dealing with babies she wasn’t assigned.
Lucy clearly had a need to be viewed as special and important. Lucy’s behaviour probably went unchecked for a while as the there was so understaffed.
Part of the way that hospitals keep safety regulations in place is through good standard work practices. Lucy repeatedly not following these makes it difficult to prove what she was and wasn’t doing.
Lucy appears to have a need for attention and validation that centres her and not the babies she was tasked with caring for.
I agree the trust may have placed her on day duties as they had suspicions but not enough evidence, on day she would be under more supervision as more parents and staff around.
It is at this point however, I would question why they didn’t put cameras in some rooms to monitor as has happened in previous cases if this nature.
People are defending Lucy because they can’t imagine someone young and pretty like her would harm babies. People don’t like to believe what they don’t understand or comprehend.
I believe Lucy has complex mental health problems and a need for attention and to feel important.
I also believe that Lucy did what she’s being accused of.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

I think it's an attempt to appear intellectual tbh

Someone holds a different opinion to you - must be trying to appear intellectual.

 

[Wackie Jeaver]

If she's guilty, then possibly...but the neonate death rates are, by all accounts, usual.
Its a question of where do you draw the line? And it really is such a tough question because everyone will have a different view.

IMO...Sometimes ignorance is bliss - and I say this with the best of intentions because, as much as you would want justice, you would also be living a lifetime of knowing what your beautiful baby was (potentially) subjected to.
A baby may have died in 2013 of genuine natural causes. Would you want to go back 10 years and go through that pain again but it's heightened by the fact it's a murder investigation and with every possibility that when the police are done, you're still left with the same outcome - 'natural causes'.

Not wanting to derail, but my Mum was in the mortuary when that vile beast David Fuller was active. I HAD to know. The police told me she wasnt involved thank god, but now they are investigating more cases and its hanging over me again... but if they came and told me she had been, I would still want to know.

Off to catch up now.

 

[TooFarScone]

Can we keep the polls going to see how opinion moves/changes?

 

[freaknasty]

But they've made it sound like he doesn't have recent experience and checking his credentials he hasn't practiced since 2009. My guess would be lots has changed in neonatal care in the last 13 years.

Yes… he hasn’t practiced since 2009 because he is now a consultant with his own firm and works specifically in child negligence. He will know what he’s talking about. His LinkedIn says he’s been doing reports in court for over 25 years.

 

[Lucyxxxx]

All we have evidence of really is that she's a bit weird. Being weird isn't a crime and isn't proof of someone being a murderer.

 

[calmyourritas]

I really hope no one ever sees my fb search history cos I often look up people I haven’t seen in 15 years and if I meet someone new I’ll try to find them 🫠

 

[Borntorun]

Don't know if this is even relative to the subject butttt... I had my eldest nearly 10 yrs ago and the midwife really went above and beyond for us and I contacted her (via my old GP) a few years later to just let her know how we were doing and I hadn't forgotten her help. I got an email back from her directly saying how she remembers us so well even after all those years. Not sure what point I'm even trying to make???? I guess some cases stick with professionals??

I’ll be totally honest…. I often bump into patients in tesco and if they recognise me and stop for a chat, I’ll always pretend I remember them It’s a real privilege being with someone on one of the biggest days of their life, I never want them to realise it’s just another day at the office for me. So yes, some patients do stick in the mind, but I can usually get through a 5 minute conversation without giving away I don’t remember them at all

 

[JellyDonut]

I’ve seen first hand through my job where a very senior and well respected consultant surgeon removed the wrong from ovary from a patient and left her infertile. He refused to accept blame and then tried to blame the student nurses who were also in the theatre (but didn’t touch the patient). It all got swept under the carpet and he got transferred to a different hospital.

 

[pommobear]

Defence and prosecution is a double edged sword.

Defend someone who is guilty, the guilty walk away free. Or maybe send an innocent person to jail for the majority of their lives.

Neither one is the better option.

I think a lot of people actually do think, even subconsciously, that it's better for an innocent person to go to prison wrongly than to risk a guilty one going free. As a juror you cannot rely on what your "gut instinct" is telling you. That isn't good enough. You have to look, objectively, at the evidence and ask if it shows you beyond a reasonable doubt that this person definitely committed the crime they are accused of. If it doesn't then you HAVE to find not guilty. It's worrying how many people don't understand that.

 

[bubbadabut]

Just throwing my 2p in regarding the note. I can see how some would take that at face value and see it as an admission of guilt. Speaking from experience, I see it as someone mentally at the end of their tether after a lengthy investigation process. My husband is a medical professional, and had a complaint hanging over him a few years ago, which was eventually dropped. It drove him to the point of complete despair, and this was not even about a death/injury. He became a completely different person. He had always had impostor syndrome but this took it to the extreme.

Just imagine for one second that she is innocent. Being blamed for the deaths of multiple children, your life changed forever, your family tarnished, your career gone, no prospects of a happy life, the treatment she will expect to receive in prison. It would warp your mind, you wouldn't be able to eat, sleep, focus on anything. Those notes to me, look like someone who is in that kind of manic state.

I'm not defending her, I just wanted to point out that some people will see that note differently, rather than take it as the smoking gun it appears to be.

I hope she gets a fair trial. Surely everyone deserves that? Plenty of pitchfork mentality around, especially when it involves children. Imagine having 12 people who've already made their mind up after hearing the prosecutor's opening statement.

She may be guilty, there are obviously so many coincidences, but just being in the same room/on shift is not enough to convict somebody. The Facebook thing, whilst odd, is not evidence of murder.

Whatever happens, it's going to be a very interesting trial.

 

[Blockedbyadmin]

Having a family member who works within murder squads and at times undercover etc, listening to how they go about their job and how long they’ve been in it, I believe she did it. I think she’s evil and I desperately feel for the parents of the babies she’s harmed. I understand the innocent until proven guilty however knowing the threshold would be high to get this to court for the cps to be sure she’s the one who committed the crimes I’ll stick with she did it and she deserves everything coming at her. I also feel for her parents. Christ knows how they feel

 

[aalmaalm]

Finding it hard to keep up with this thread. I have caught up with live feed though and will dip in and out of this. But can I just say and it’s probably been said. I hope this case doesn’t take away (I doubt it does) the fact that Nicu nurses are actual angels sent from heaven. And without the constant care from them for my little girl, she wouldn’t be here right now. They saved my baby’s life on several occasions, and were also there for me. I feel forever thankful I hope the parents of these precious angels get the closure and justice that is so truly deserved.

 

[Eirawen]

Lucy does fit the profile of a perpetrator of fabricated and induced illness.
From the evidence presented so far,
Lucy requested the difficult cases as she was the most qualified but was often found in other rooms and dealing with babies she wasn’t assigned.
Lucy clearly had a need to be viewed as special and important. Lucy’s behaviour probably went unchecked for a while as the there was so understaffed.
Part of the way that hospitals keep safety regulations in place is through good standard work practices. Lucy repeatedly not following these makes it difficult to prove what she was and wasn’t doing.
Lucy appears to have a need for attention and validation that centres her and not the babies she was tasked with caring for.
I agree the trust may have placed her on day duties as they had suspicions but not enough evidence, on day she would be under more supervision as more parents and staff around.
It is at this point however, I would question why they didn’t put cameras in some rooms to monitor as has happened in previous cases if this nature.
People are defending Lucy because they can’t imagine someone young and pretty like her would harm babies. People don’t like to believe what they don’t understand or comprehend.
I believe Lucy has complex mental health problems and a need for attention and to feel important.
I also believe that Lucy did what she’s being accused of.

If she was older and less attractive I don't think she would have such support

 

[Tofino]

Mr Myers has tried to discredit the expert witness and I think he’s failed badly to be honest. Dr Evans responded to his cross examination really well I think.

 

[Truthslayer]

People saying they are surprised she has not pleaded guilty - she has literally nothing to lose. If she pleaded guilty or if she is found guilty of even one of the counts, it is highly unlikely she will ever be released from prison. So you might as well throw the dice.

 

[MakeDamnSure]

Going off the current topic slightly but one question I had.
One of the victims it said LL had been present for the birth? Why would she be present for the birth? Isn’t that a completely different department?
Also how many other births was she involved with and what does that mean for the alarming number of stillbirths that coincided with the neo-natal collapses and deaths?

I had a difficult labour and they knew my baby was going to have to go straight to NICU so there were neo natal nurses in the room when I delivered. They didn’t help with the delivery in any way, just waited for baby to arrive so they could take him off straight away. My baby was not breathing when he was born so they recuscitated him there in the delivery room until he was stable enough to be transferred to NICU. So could have been a situation like that or when they know baby has a pre-existing medical condition which means they would have to go straight to NICU.
*all was well with my baby he is nearly 7 now and full of beans*

 

[friedeggontoast]

I know people think her post it note was ramblings in a mental health episode or during a therapy call but I just don’t buy it.
Yes she might’ve gone crazy with the accusations but if I was 100% innocent, knew I hadn’t done anything wrong, I wouldn’t be writing down “I killed them”. I wouldn’t say it, write it, type it! Those words wouldn’t come out of my mouth if I’d done nothing wrong.

 

[Laura8868]

Actually it’s not subjective, there’s statistical analysis exactly for this purpose. Say there are 10 possible nurses a baby could be assigned to, and some number of deaths per year, there’ll be a point where a certain number of deaths for 1 nurse will be so unlikely that you can say with 95%/99% confidence that it’s not random anymore. Here we have not only total deaths up by a huge amount, but all linked to her - if it was random or hospital negligence it would be distributed across various nurses. I think this number of deaths being linked to her must be statistically significant. I guess they’ll get experts in for this.

The neonatal mortality rates are 1.4% per 1,000 live births for babies born at 24 weeks and over.
So let's say for 1000 babies less than 2 babies will be expected to die. ( source-https://www.ons.gov.uk)
Unit where she worked isn't big - only 15 beds. So 7deaths and 10 potential deaths (the skilled staff managed to save the babies) it's A LOTS for such a small, level 2 unit.
It's really too much for coincidence

 

[lookwhatthecatdraggedin1]

I haven’t been commenting here just reading, but to every nurse whether you work with children or adults thank you for your amazing work reading some of the stuff you all have to do at work and the stuff you deal with I could never imagine, you are all amazing.