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Fishwife

Chatty Member
I used to love languages. I did French and German at university. But that was fifty years ago and it is more than a bit rusty. I love the Easy German you tube videos. They stop people in the street and ask them some questions so you hear a range of accents. The main presenter is German with a Polish husband. I have listened to some of the Easy Spanish as well. It seems to be mainly South American. The Easy language channel is not for complete beginners.
At the moment I am going through the Duolingo French. It is quite slow and seems to be very short on vocabulary. The main advantage is that it is free and is quite an entertaining way to pass ten minutes.
 
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aidil

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The other night I was demonstrating how Duolingo works to a friend, as she wants to try some Spanish.
I decided to go with russian because that's what I know, and it was really quite hilarious stuff.
"where is the bicycle?"
"my rucksack is in the metro"
So that's useful, isn't it? 😂
Are all the sentences as mad as that on beginners Duolingo for every language?
I can 100% confirm this! 🤣 I was using it over summer to start learning French and it kept asking me to say “are you a horse?” A totally normal conversation starter, non? 💀 I switched back to books after that but I still quite like the mini podcasts on DuoLingo if you’re subscribed. They’re quite handy for learning pronunciation!
 
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Romy

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The way to pronounce Madrid is quite regional. Some will pronounce it as Madrid, others Madrith, others Madree (lmagine an accent on the final), others Madrit.
trilled r is "rolled" r?
Scottish people seem to roll the r
 
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I'm trying to learn Dutch as my partner is from the Netherlands and speaks better English than me along with French and German. I was born in England too but he knows words that I don't! Friends and Family say he doesn't have a Dutch accent and has the same English accent as me? Anyway I digress...

I'm using DuoLingo and I already knew some Dutch from the years we've been together plus not many of his family speak English so I can try to speak to them a bit too. Just doing my 3 minute lesson most days and I do drop the odd sentence in to my partner too when I feel brave.

At school I was predicted to get an A in French but didn't revise and got a B. I still remember some French and probably should give that a try too as I feel more confident and can speak more of it.

I don't practise languages with my partner as he is fluent and fast and I need time plus he prefers English when with me. The French accent though is dreamy.
 
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WeepingCassandra

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Does anyone have any advice on German? And om balancing work and studying languages?
Long time learner of German here. I think the best thing you can do is learn how the pronunciation works and how to split a word into its parts - German loves a compound and if you can break those down you’ll be able to understand a lot of really complex things.

There’s also a really good way of learning articles - I can’t remember off the top of my head but certain categories of object are always masculine, same with feminine and (much less common) neuter. If you can learn those broad categories you’ll get the gender correct most of the time.
 
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Laughingforlife

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Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?
I am about 4 months late. The easiest way is to just listen to people speaking it. Watch documentaries on the country, and perhaps there'll be some speakers in there. Over time, you get used to the accent and how the letters are said and everything.
I did this with Russian. Although there's a lot of material out there on that country 😂
 
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StatusWoe

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But I am just so tired after work, I can't bring myself to do anything.
I know how you feel. :(

I'd also like to go back to my Welsh, my papa was Welsh so I learned because of him, he was a English speaker but it was nice to learn his native, an I'd like to get my Japanese at a good stage as well since on future I want to travel out there
My grandad was Welsh, but I've never learned the language. I'm impressed with your list of languages. Is Japanese difficult? It would be amazing to visit Japan sometime.

And there's so many things that seem infuriatingly complicated - for example, a case system that relies not only on the position of a noun in the sentence but whether you're speaking positively or negatively about the noun! - but each time I discover something bizarre it just makes me more determined to master it!
That really does sound complicated. :LOL: Very intriguing! I'm interested in the Irish language for similar reasons, though I've never studied it properly. It's very different to English. Here's an article explaining some of its features: https://www.lexiconista.com/awesome-irish/
 
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Laughingforlife

VIP Member
I’d love to know if anyone has tried these phrases in real life situations! 🤣
I'll go up to my friend and ask if she's a machine and see if she remembers sending that screenshot to me 😂
But at least I can say my rucksack is in the metro if I ever end up in Russia!

My mum told me that she had a French phrasebook once which said: "My car is skidding."
Right....
 
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Deeznutslol

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I’m trying to learn Catalan at the moment and finding it a challenge tbh, I can read a lot of it and figure out what a lot of things mean when they’re written down as I speak Spanish, but I find it difficult to understand anything when I hear it spoken!!
 
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StatusWoe

VIP Member
TBH the best thing you can do is just practise speaking as much as possible - but at the same time, ensure you're actively listening to the other person's pronunciation, so you can do your best to emulate it. I agree with the above post about music, I've found that it helps me a lot. Not just with pronunciation and listening, also with grammar and vocabulary because lyrics are easy to remember.

More specifically for you, the most common problems for English speakers in Spanish tend to be:

* the neutral vowel. The most common sound in the English language is the schwa, /ə/. Most English speakers aren't even really aware of it - it's the first vowel in about, the second vowel in lemon, something that English speakers who don't know phonetics might transcribe as "uh". We use it all the time, in almost every word with 2+ syllables. We also often pronounce prepositions and modal verbs with the schwa. It doesn't exist in Spanish, but English speakers tend to use it unconsciously a lot. This relates to stress timing vs syllable timing. Look it up if you're not sure what I mean - basically in English we time our speech according to the words that are most important, but in Spanish every syllable has equal timing. If you use the schwa and apply English stress timing to Spanish, you'll sound like you're mumbling and people will often have a hard time understanding you.

That is the single most important thing for English speakers learning Spanish, and by far the most common problem I see regularly. Everything else I have here is window dressing - but I'll note it down anyway, as it might be useful.

* single r in Spanish should see your tongue tap on the roof of your mouth. If you have a rhotic accent it will be easier. If your accent is non-rhotic, you'll need to practise a lot, because it can feel very awkward, particularly with words that have r before another consonant, or with words that end in r (like...every infinitive in the whole language 🤦🏼‍♀️).

* double r or r at the start of a word is trilled. Again, this depends a bit on your native accent - I grew up in one of the few parts of the English-speaking world with a trilled r so I find it easy, but I know a lot of English speakers really struggle and have to practise it a lot.

* d in Spanish is formed with the tongue touching the back of the top teeth (in English the tongue is further back). That's why Madrid will often sound, to English speaking ears, more like Madrith.

* v and b are identical, and more like an English b. People will understand if you pronounce v like in English, but it's a big thing to work on if you want to reduce your accent (I would say it's sort of like a German saying v instead of w in English - we all understand but it's an instant tell).

* ll should have a distinctive y sound. I often hear English speakers saying, for example, "tortía" when they want to say tortilla. Make sure you are vocalising the consonant sound.

* syllable stress is a LOT more important in Spanish than in English: vino is totally different from vinó. People make mistakes here all the time. Active listening is crucial, along with emulating the stress the other person uses.

* the vowel sounds in Spanish are simple because there are so few of them, but they're hard for native English speakers because the exact sounds don't exist in English. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll never master them perfectly...but one thing we can master is keeping that their pronunciation regular. So for example most English speakers will pronounce Granada with the exact same vowel pattern that we use in banana, with the central a being notably different. In Spanish all 3 of the syllables are completely regular, with the same vowel sound.

That's a lot to take in, I know! The first point is by far the most important. I spent a long time working on eliminating the schwa and speaking with syllable timing rather than stress timing. Occasionally when I am very anxious or really tired I slip up, and people will look at me with "wtf" expressions - it really makes a difference.

Practice is essential. With regards to feeling self-conscious...there were a few times, years ago now, when people laughed at me or mocked my accent and it really knocked my confidence...but those occasions were very rare. In my experience, the vast majority of people are just really happy when you make an effort.
Just wanted to say a big thank you for all these tips! ❤ It's exactly the kind of advice I need at the moment. I've definitely been struggling with the double 'r' at the beginning of words. It's a sound that's completely unfamiliar to me. And yep, I would pronounce tortilla as "tortía" 😅 Think I've finally got the hang of syllable stress - listening to lots of Spanish music/native speakers helps with that.

I'm also trying to figure out where in the English-speaking world has a trilled 'r' sound.
 
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no-no

VIP Member
Anyone who's tried learning with a private tutor, can you please give me some idea of what you actually do in lessons?
I booked 10 hours and you could have them 2x a week depending on the tutor. They also had free nights at the school where you could go and chat with tutors/other students. First session was so she could understand what level I was at and what I wanted to get out of the tutoring. I didn’t have a plan of action so we covered all the basic stuff. We’d discuss themes and practice pronunciation, grammar etc. I was set homework and encouraged to lead on the content.

I would do them again but only at intermediate level (CEFR B1) so there’s more to build on. It can be intimidating fumbling over basic words with a native speaker, even though the tutor I had was lovely. That said, I think some people could benefit from them as a beginner but it is very expensive compared to what you’d get out of them vs being disciplined with self-directed study.
 
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Romy

VIP Member
TBH the best thing you can do is just practise speaking as much as possible - but at the same time, ensure you're actively listening to the other person's pronunciation, so you can do your best to emulate it. I agree with the above post about music, I've found that it helps me a lot. Not just with pronunciation and listening, also with grammar and vocabulary because lyrics are easy to remember.

More specifically for you, the most common problems for English speakers in Spanish tend to be:

* the neutral vowel. The most common sound in the English language is the schwa, /ə/. Most English speakers aren't even really aware of it - it's the first vowel in about, the second vowel in lemon, something that English speakers who don't know phonetics might transcribe as "uh". We use it all the time, in almost every word with 2+ syllables. We also often pronounce prepositions and modal verbs with the schwa. It doesn't exist in Spanish, but English speakers tend to use it unconsciously a lot. This relates to stress timing vs syllable timing. Look it up if you're not sure what I mean - basically in English we time our speech according to the words that are most important, but in Spanish every syllable has equal timing. If you use the schwa and apply English stress timing to Spanish, you'll sound like you're mumbling and people will often have a hard time understanding you.

That is the single most important thing for English speakers learning Spanish, and by far the most common problem I see regularly. Everything else I have here is window dressing - but I'll note it down anyway, as it might be useful.

* single r in Spanish should see your tongue tap on the roof of your mouth. If you have a rhotic accent it will be easier. If your accent is non-rhotic, you'll need to practise a lot, because it can feel very awkward, particularly with words that have r before another consonant, or with words that end in r (like...every infinitive in the whole language 🤦🏼‍♀️).

* double r or r at the start of a word is trilled. Again, this depends a bit on your native accent - I grew up in one of the few parts of the English-speaking world with a trilled r so I find it easy, but I know a lot of English speakers really struggle and have to practise it a lot.

* d in Spanish is formed with the tongue touching the back of the top teeth (in English the tongue is further back). That's why Madrid will often sound, to English speaking ears, more like Madrith.

* v and b are identical, and more like an English b. People will understand if you pronounce v like in English, but it's a big thing to work on if you want to reduce your accent (I would say it's sort of like a German saying v instead of w in English - we all understand but it's an instant tell).

* ll should have a distinctive y sound. I often hear English speakers saying, for example, "tortía" when they want to say tortilla. Make sure you are vocalising the consonant sound.

* syllable stress is a LOT more important in Spanish than in English: vino is totally different from vinó. People make mistakes here all the time. Active listening is crucial, along with emulating the stress the other person uses.

* the vowel sounds in Spanish are simple because there are so few of them, but they're hard for native English speakers because the exact sounds don't exist in English. I've come to terms with the fact that I'll never master them perfectly...but one thing we can master is keeping that their pronunciation regular. So for example most English speakers will pronounce Granada with the exact same vowel pattern that we use in banana, with the central a being notably different. In Spanish all 3 of the syllables are completely regular, with the same vowel sound.

That's a lot to take in, I know! The first point is by far the most important. I spent a long time working on eliminating the schwa and speaking with syllable timing rather than stress timing. Occasionally when I am very anxious or really tired I slip up, and people will look at me with "wtf" expressions - it really makes a difference.

Practice is essential. With regards to feeling self-conscious...there were a few times, years ago now, when people laughed at me or mocked my accent and it really knocked my confidence...but those occasions were very rare. In my experience, the vast majority of people are just really happy when you make an effort.
The way to pronounce Madrid is quite regional. Some will pronounce it as Madrid, others Madrith, others Madree (lmagine an accent on the final), others Madrit.
 
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Snippysnips

VIP Member
I used to know a bit of French, Spanish, Welsh, gaelic an Japanese an BSL but I've mostly lost it all with not keeping it up

I want to go back to my gaelic since it's a gaelic/English school my neice will be going to an I've been trying to teach her BSL as well, mostly so I could have at least some sort of communication with her when she wasn't at the talking stage so it was just things like more, all done, yes, no etc at the time but I'd like to learn more an have her learn with me

I'd also like to go back to my Welsh, my papa was Welsh so I learned because of him, he was a English speaker but it was nice to learn his native, an I'd like to get my Japanese at a good stage as well since on future I want to travel out there

I don't even know where to start with it all again, it's hard for me to keep up the motivation with it an keep a schedule as well as know what apps will be the best to go with
 
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xoxoxo13

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I'm 'studying' German because I want to move there next year. I need a B1 level to get my passport.

But I am just so tired after work, I can't bring myself to do anything.
 
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StatusWoe

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The way to pronounce Madrid is quite regional. Some will pronounce it as Madrid, others Madrith, others Madree (lmagine an accent on the final), others Madrit.
I've come across a few regional differences in pronounciation. I noticed a thing where people will say a 'j' sound instead of a 'y'. For example, 'yo' would be pronouned more like 'jo'. Not sure if that's a feature of South American Spanish because I haven't heard it in Spain?
 
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emm

VIP Member
The other night I was demonstrating how Duolingo works to a friend, as she wants to try some Spanish.
I decided to go with russian because that's what I know, and it was really quite hilarious stuff.
"where is the bicycle?"
"my rucksack is in the metro"
So that's useful, isn't it? 😂
Are all the sentences as mad as that on beginners Duolingo for every language?
It seems pretty mad but it is actually based in a very good way of teaching in terms of learning to make sentences etc, not sure if anyone if familiar with the Callan method of English teaching but it is the same kind of idea.

For people learning Spanish the Notes in Spanish podcast is good, not sure they still update but they are still free online. Does anyone have a good beginners German podcast to suggest? My new years resolution is to learn but I have yet to start 😆
 
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StatusWoe

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I'm also learning English (my first language is Russian).
Your English is good. I wouldn't have known it was your second language.

I struggle with speaking skills, partly because I feel self-conscious, but also because my accent is never very good! Does anyone have advice about how to improve accent in a foreign language?
 
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Romy

VIP Member
Galician has so many regional varieties, it's amazing. Sadly I just have a basic level - I lived in Galicia for a few years but in a big city where it was really rare to hear anything but Spanish in public. A lot of my Galician friends are very into orgullo galego though, so I have lots of opportunities to practise, and lately I am really into a lot of Galician music. It took me sooo long to understand gheada, my brain just wasn't getting it! I used to work with a guy born in London to Galician parents. He spoke English with a real cockney accent and Galician and Spanish with a rural Ourense accent, and people would freak out at the difference!

Catalan is similar to Galician in terms of variety - it's very easy to pinpoint where someone is from quite specifically, and there are lots of words that are only used in particular towns.

I've been meaning to learn French as I'd like to travel more in France, but I keep putting it off. Maybe starting that can be my project over the winter...
Oh I didn't expect that :love:😂
In the cities, the notables used to speak only Castillian as Galician was seen as a peasant thing (although they ALL have the same roots and understand perfectly). It's more fancy now lol
I am a bit like your friend. When I am in Spain outside Galicia, some people are astonished I speak with a strong Galician accent because I didn't grow up there (although I spent one year with my grandparents before school... and all my summers there). What accent do they expect me to have? from another Spanish region ? haha It makes no sense. It's not like I live in another Spanish speaking country or Spanish region. The funny thing is my family don't think I have a strong Galician accent.
My father was from the coast (Rias Baixas) and mum was from the interior (Southern Provincia de Lugo, near Provincia de Ourense) and it's strangely different in terms of landscapes, climate, language, even mentality, but both beautiful.

I didn't know for the Catalan.

The difficulty in French language is the grammar maybe. The exceptions. And there are multiple ways to write the same sound. For example "o" can be written o, au, aux, eau, eaux, even a....😅
 
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Sglodion

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I'm learning Vietnamese because I want to move there to become an English teacher - I've been learning on duolingo since about May. I was in the country over the summer and could communicate alright with people (although only at a basic level, like complimenting their food/home/tour guiding skills and explaining what this white British girl was doing alone in Vietnam trying to speak Vietnamese at people, lol), but I had to write everything down because my pronunciation is TERRIBLE and no-one could understand me 😅

I'm thinking about getting an online tutor to practise speaking with, but I'm not sure at what point it would be most worthwhile. Like at the moment I don't know enough vocabulary to have much of a conversation beyond the "my name is Sglodion, how are you, how is the weather in Ho Chi Minh City today" level, and so I'm not really sure what we'd do for half an hour... My dad has a French tutor but he can already speak it to the level where they just spend an hour discussing French politics or whatever, so that's not much help. Anyone who's tried learning with a private tutor, can you please give me some idea of what you actually do in lessons?
 
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Snippysnips

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My grandad was Welsh, but I've never learned the language. I'm impressed with your list of languages. Is Japanese difficult? It would be amazing to visit Japan sometime.
Thanks, at one point I really threw myself into learning a lot an done OK with it, I had learned that being able to switch between languages could help starve off dementia an since it runs quite heavy in the family I really got stuck into it all

I guess it would depend on how well your memory is for Japanese because really your sorta learning 4 languages at once, although the Japanese discourage romaji so I tried to keep away from that as much as I could, I'd say focus on your hirigana first as that is the main an then go onto katakana since that is used for non native words an since your name will be non native then its helpful to learn that an then finally kanji which is the most difficult
 
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