Fair enough, that's your opinion.I just thought she was more left wing/liberal than she turned out to be. Which is absolutely her right.
I think that she is left wing in the majority of her views but this is where things get confusing, left-wing and right-wing lines have become very muddled in the past few years - take the issue of homosexuality: is it left-wing to say that lesbians like penis or is it right-wing to say lesbians like penis? Is it left-wing to say that gay men are same-sex attracted or is it left-wing to say that gay men are same-gender attracted?I just thought she was more left wing/liberal than she turned out to be. Which is absolutely her right.
Standing up for women’s rights is illiberal in 2021 according to someI just thought she was more left wing/liberal than she turned out to be. Which is absolutely her right.
Agreed, it's such a mess. Also political leaning doesnt mean you have to agree with every ascertion a political party makes.I think that she is left wing in the majority of her views but this is where things get confusing, left-wing and right-wing lines have become very muddled in the past few years - take the issue of homosexuality: is it left-wing to say that lesbians like penis or is it right-wing to say lesbians like penis? Is it left-wing to say that gay men are same-sex attracted or is it left-wing to say that gay men are same-gender attracted?
It is a common misconception that this is not a left wing/liberal view point. It absolutely is. Scratch the surface and you will find hundreds of women who have left left wing parties, particularly Labour, over this issue. It is a hot topic of discussion within lesbian rights groups, radical feminism and more. Many gay men and “truscum” transgender people (aka old school transexuals) also support this viewpoint.I just thought she was more left wing/liberal than she turned out to be. Which is absolutely her right.
Not sure I'd called homosexuality an "issue". It's just a natural variant in human behaviour - just like being left-handed.I think that she is left wing in the majority of her views but this is where things get confusing, left-wing and right-wing lines have become very muddled in the past few years - take the issue of homosexuality: is it left-wing to say that lesbians like penis or is it right-wing to say lesbians like penis? Is it left-wing to say that gay men are same-sex attracted or is it left-wing to say that gay men are same-gender attracted?
I think I know what you're trying to say. I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't like how certain aspects of both sides have become polarised - from extremes like "all trans women are men trying to get into women's spaces" to "all trans women are women regardless of whether they've taken hormones". You know?Standing up for women’s rights is illiberal in 2021 according to some
No apologies necessary, you are welcome to discuss, this is related to JKR as we have been discussing her. This is also a place to discuss her books etc.Not sure I'd called homosexuality an "issue". It's just a natural variant in human behaviour - just like being left-handed.
The rest of your post confuses me somewhat!
I think I know what you're trying to say. I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't like how certain aspects of both sides have become polarised - from extremes like "all trans women are men trying to get into women's spaces" to "all trans women are women regardless of whether they've taken hormones". You know?
Anyway, apologies, I've realised this has stopped becoming about JK Rowling and more about other things which is my fault.
BIB - nobody says that. It’s actually the same argument as “not all men” - no, not all men are dangerous, but how do we tell which ones are and which ones aren’t?Not sure I'd called homosexuality an "issue". It's just a natural variant in human behaviour - just like being left-handed.
The rest of your post confuses me somewhat!
I think I know what you're trying to say. I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't like how certain aspects of both sides have become polarised - from extremes like "all trans women are men trying to get into women's spaces" to "all trans women are women regardless of whether they've taken hormones". You know?
Anyway, apologies, I've realised this has stopped becoming about JK Rowling and more about other things which is my fault.
Sorry, when I quoted your post and said “according to some” I didn’t mean you, I meant “some” as inNot sure I'd called homosexuality an "issue". It's just a natural variant in human behaviour - just like being left-handed.
The rest of your post confuses me somewhat!
I think I know what you're trying to say. I'm somewhere in the middle. I don't like how certain aspects of both sides have become polarised - from extremes like "all trans women are men trying to get into women's spaces" to "all trans women are women regardless of whether they've taken hormones". You know?
Anyway, apologies, I've realised this has stopped becoming about JK Rowling and more about other things which is my fault.
I'm sorry, I could have phrased that better, I'm a lesbian myself - I meant 'issue' as in 'political issue' rather than issue as in 'social issue'.Not sure I'd called homosexuality an "issue". It's just a natural variant in human behaviour - just like being left-handed.
The rest of your post confuses me somewhat!
JK Rowling sets out why she’s interested in this topic in her essay here - https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/...ns-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/I liked the Harry Potter books, but I never really understood why she waded into the argument and kept going on about it at length. Maybe it's because she missed the notoriety she once had?
There are quite a few people who've got involved in that particular argument and almost all of their tweets are about it. You can have an opinion and state that opinion of course, but when most of your social media posts are about the same thing, it's perhaps time to look at whether it's doing you any good.
I personally think that if a biological man takes female hormones and has gender reassignment surgery then they're "living as a woman". That's not based on stereotypes; it's just that they're presenting as female as 100% of the time. In that scenario, I think it'd be almost cruel to force them to use, say, men's toilets for example.BIB - nobody says that. It’s actually the same argument as “not all men” - no, not all men are dangerous, but how do we tell which ones are and which ones aren’t?
It’s the same concept, because we do not believe it is possible to change sex (it biologically isn’t), and what does “living as a woman” mean anyway? Usually it comes down to an offensive gender stereotype.
I don’t believe all trans people are dangerous, neither do I have a problem with them existing. I support trans rights in terms of them having equal access to healthcare and housing, not being discriminated against in society, not being subject to abuse and violence.
What I do not support is their need to use women’s facilities. They are physically different from women, even when they’ve had surgery (which is not something I support - SRS is a hugely devastating con that leaves people infertile and in pain, but that’s another issue). They are physically of the sex that oppresses women via their sex (sorry, clumsy sentence!) and there is no evidence that shows the rate of sexual crime in transitioned male to females is less than in males.
There are also more issues beyond this that I am not happy about - for example, modern trans ideology is unfair to women in sport, is dangerous to children as they can be left with lifelong health issues from unnecessary medical intervention, and less importantly but still an issue, as a feminist I find that transgenderism is pushing a strict gender stereotype and binary, despite claiming otherwise. I am uncomfortable with that.
I have a lot of sympathy for anyone who suffered from gender dysphoria and I (and I think most people here) would be more than happy to have male, female and unisex toilets (and hospital wards and prison wards and changing rooms and so on) so that if someone did not feel comfortable or safe using the men's toilet that they wouldn't need to do so.I personally think that if a biological man takes female hormones and has gender reassignment surgery then they're "living as a woman". That's not based on stereotypes; it's just that they're presenting as female as 100% of the time. In that scenario, I think it'd be almost cruel to force them to use, say, men's toilets for example.
I'm a biological male myself, so I accept that it's not up to me to decide the above (nor do I think I should) but that's my view at least. But I do have a great deal of empathy for trans people. I don't think they'd put themselves through all the ridicule they get if they didn't 100% feel like they were in the wrong body.
Can I ask what you would define “presenting as female” as?I personally think that if a biological man takes female hormones and has gender reassignment surgery then they're "living as a woman". That's not based on stereotypes; it's just that they're presenting as female as 100% of the time. In that scenario, I think it'd be almost cruel to force them to use, say, men's toilets for example.
I'm a biological male myself, so I accept that it's not up to me to decide the above (nor do I think I should) but that's my view at least. But I do have a great deal of empathy for trans people. I don't think they'd put themselves through all the ridicule they get if they didn't 100% feel like they were in the wrong body.
Humans can’t change sex. That’s not cruel, demeaning or transphobic. It’s an irrefutable fact.I personally think that if a biological man takes female hormones and has gender reassignment surgery then they're "living as a woman". That's not based on stereotypes; it's just that they're presenting as female as 100% of the time. In that scenario, I think it'd be almost cruel to force them to use, say, men's toilets for example.
I'm a biological male myself, so I accept that it's not up to me to decide the above (nor do I think I should) but that's my view at least. But I do have a great deal of empathy for trans people. I don't think they'd put themselves through all the ridicule they get if they didn't 100% feel like they were in the wrong body.
What does it mean to “present as a female” though? Genuinely, what does it mean? Are you also aware that the vast majority of trans people retain their genitalia?I personally think that if a biological man takes female hormones and has gender reassignment surgery then they're "living as a woman". That's not based on stereotypes; it's just that they're presenting as female as 100% of the time. In that scenario, I think it'd be almost cruel to force them to use, say, men's toilets for example.
I'm a biological male myself, so I accept that it's not up to me to decide the above (nor do I think I should) but that's my view at least. But I do have a great deal of empathy for trans people. I don't think they'd put themselves through all the ridicule they get if they didn't 100% feel like they were in the wrong body.
Exactly this. I think it also has to be considered that everyone has to have a starting point when they become very interested or invested in a social issue. For example, when I was an academic I had colleagues who worked on disability after they became disabled, or people who worked on motherhood/fatherhood once they became parents. The idea that someone ought to be regarded with suspicion because they are ‘suddenly’ interested in a social issue is frankly bizarre. We are all uninterested until we are interested. I would say that it’s very normal and reasonable that someone suddenly becomes much more invested in women’s rights when another form of rights changes and so engages with ours. Why would anyone have really been worried about this say 20 years ago? Things have changed a lot.JK Rowling sets out why she’s interested in this topic in her essay here - https://www.jkrowling.com/opinions/...ns-for-speaking-out-on-sex-and-gender-issues/
She says she been closely following trans matters for several years and has five key reasons for her interest; her work with domestic abuse charities and concern of the impact on this by moves to replace the legal definition of sex with gender; the effect of the trans rights movement on education; free speech; the transition of young women and the irreversible effects on their bodies and finally the consequences of current trans activism such as women like JK being called a bigot for wanting to protect single sex spaces.
I don’t think JK is in this for the “notoriety”. She’s never struck me as anyone who particularly covets fame. She has taken interest in something that affects women’s rights. Nothing odd about that.
That's fair, but given that everyone was saying TWAW, I think it would have been easier for her to just go along with it. Also she doesn't need the PR, video games, parcs are still made about HP and her books still sell well.I get that but I just question her motivation. I've always been a cynic, though.
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