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Badirene
VIP Member
Oh yes I as a "breeder" am just drowning in privilege. That time as a little girl I was sexually abused, privilege. That time I was date raped in college, privilege. When these assaults were reported, being questioned about what I did to bring them on myself, privilege. Everytime some bloke has staggered up to me to make sexual comments, privilege. Not being able to safely walk about on my own in certain areas, privilege. The fact I earn less than men for the same job, privilege. Diseases that I am at risk of because of my biological sex, privilege. The fact I am risk physically as I am smaller and weaker than most as a 5 ft 3 woman, privilege. The fact is was not inlegal for a man to rape his wife until 1992 in my country, the first prosecution in 2002, privilege. Now my country , Ireland, has made it legal for any bloke to say he is a woman,, no hormones no surgery no questions asked with two of these men housed in a womans prison today, privilege. The highest rate of VAT applied to feminine hygiene products, privilege. Paying 55 quid for a dr visit to get a prescription (30 quid for the pills for three months)for the pill so I can work and live without crippling period pain, privilege. Meanwhile limpdick Larry can get his Viagra over the counter at Boots so he can leave his wife dissatisfied on the cheap. The fact that our health service removed the word "woman" from cervical cancer screening literature while still covering up the deaths of women told they were cancer free when in fact they were given the wrong test results, privilege. The fact is these Berks haven't got the testicular fortitude to be a woman in this world. GTFO with their nonsense of "cis privilege"
To add to my rant the two self identified "women" housed in the women's prison, well one has ten convictions for sexually assaulting women and one for assault of a child. The second person has threatened to murder women, attacked several women, tore the eyelids off of a social worker caring for them and his own mother has been in hiding due to credible threats to kill her. This person was also sent to the Tavistock clinic to be diagnosed with gender dysphoria but the specialists there said he was not dysphoric just a danger to women and our courts placed him in women's prison on the guys say so. So much privilege.
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I am a man and it’s a biological fact that men cannot get pregnant even if they work for the guardian. Saying that is not breaching anyone’s human rights it’s just shattering some people’s mental delusions.
Woman have breasts and they breastfeed which is not possible for a man to do naturally as the production of milk is triggered by hormones produced during pregnancy. Using words like chest feeding is just another example of slowly eroding woman’s rights. Whilst you are correct that in rare occasions men can get breast cancer this is due to them having a small amount of breast tissue located behind the nipple. Woman on the other hand cannot get testicular cancer as woman do not have testicles.
SqualorVictoria
VIP Member
Someone posted this on that Gabby thread
It does because women are needed for research and it halts access to care too.
Using inclusive language is great but not when it prevents access to the care from people who aren’t educated above a certain level, who have learning difficulties, who have English as a second language, who are prevented by males in the home/in abusing situations, who have no idea about the political ways language is changing. Not everyone is hyper aware of the evolution of language regards trans/non binary as not everyone has access to the internet where most of the conversation is happening.
This then becomes a socioeconomic problem too and means health care then starts preventing or scaring women away from sex specific care because they don’t have the internet, aren’t on Twitter or don’t read The Guardian.
Many women, for instance (if we extrapolate here to cervical screening) don’t know what a cervix is, nor that they have one and yes that’s sad, and yes there should be better education. But that is centuries down the line because of course woman are deep root shamed about their bodies and we are still seen as dirty and shameful by many. Education, healthcare and society will need centuries to evolve and move away from the Abrahamic degradation of the female sex before every woman is aware that she has a cervix, what it is, and what it does - let alone further details about the female body.
If “woman” becomes replaced by “cervix havers” and similar, as it has in many trusts, then it rather precludes women from taking part in research or having appropriate screening, testing and help.
Edited to add: It should go without saying that TM and NB people should of course receive all the help they need and should be sign posted appropriately. There needs to be an overhaul in the way trans people are dealt with in medical care. But sadly, knowing how long it takes for women to be seen as something other that “other” in medical care, I can’t see it happening in any useful way in my lifetime.
Just changing medical and patient literature to exclude/dilute the world “woman” from a primarily female or solely female health problem is unhelpful and causes more issues than it solves. It see why it is done, I see the insistence of people to say “we must include trans people too” and that it is helpful in other areas but the rather bullish ways non-medical people have tried to apply it to medical settings is very, very unhelpful.
It does because women are needed for research and it halts access to care too.
Using inclusive language is great but not when it prevents access to the care from people who aren’t educated above a certain level, who have learning difficulties, who have English as a second language, who are prevented by males in the home/in abusing situations, who have no idea about the political ways language is changing. Not everyone is hyper aware of the evolution of language regards trans/non binary as not everyone has access to the internet where most of the conversation is happening.
This then becomes a socioeconomic problem too and means health care then starts preventing or scaring women away from sex specific care because they don’t have the internet, aren’t on Twitter or don’t read The Guardian.
Many women, for instance (if we extrapolate here to cervical screening) don’t know what a cervix is, nor that they have one and yes that’s sad, and yes there should be better education. But that is centuries down the line because of course woman are deep root shamed about their bodies and we are still seen as dirty and shameful by many. Education, healthcare and society will need centuries to evolve and move away from the Abrahamic degradation of the female sex before every woman is aware that she has a cervix, what it is, and what it does - let alone further details about the female body.
If “woman” becomes replaced by “cervix havers” and similar, as it has in many trusts, then it rather precludes women from taking part in research or having appropriate screening, testing and help.
Edited to add: It should go without saying that TM and NB people should of course receive all the help they need and should be sign posted appropriately. There needs to be an overhaul in the way trans people are dealt with in medical care. But sadly, knowing how long it takes for women to be seen as something other that “other” in medical care, I can’t see it happening in any useful way in my lifetime.
Just changing medical and patient literature to exclude/dilute the world “woman” from a primarily female or solely female health problem is unhelpful and causes more issues than it solves. It see why it is done, I see the insistence of people to say “we must include trans people too” and that it is helpful in other areas but the rather bullish ways non-medical people have tried to apply it to medical settings is very, very unhelpful.
emmer_moans
VIP Member
I hope this woman is surrounded by loving family and friends. It must be hard to be the face on peoples' figurative dart boards, just for speaking up for women.
MotherofDragons
Well-known member
I need to vent here as I don't want to derail another thread by replying to the post, but this has really fucked me off.
"Also, Gabby, don't fall into the JK Rowling trap of saying "women". There are trans men and non-binary folk with endo too."
This was someones comment on the Gabriella Lindley thread re. her endometriosis diagnosis. Now i'm not saying that Gabby isn't problematic, but she has done absolutely nothing wrong by talking about endometriosis as a womens health condition.
SqualorVictoria
VIP Member
So true
SqualorVictoria
VIP Member
And female celebrities too. The level of hate directed at JK tells us all we need to know about the hatred of women in society, especially successful women with a voice
If we lived in an equal world JK Rowling would achieve damehood for all she has done:
A single mother who had nothing and who became one of the most successful authors of all time
Brought millions into the UK tourist economy and others with her franchise
Paid taxes to give back to the system that supported her when she had nothing
Encouraged a love of reading in millions of children
Gave up her billionaire status for charitable funds
Donated millions in charity, most recently to covid relief in India
Spoke up about womens sex based rights and her own experiences of domestic violence
And I'm sure there's many more. But sadly we don't live in an ideal world so she will just continue to be smeared. While super rich men like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk do absolutely nothing except use their wealth for expensive boy toys
If we lived in an equal world JK Rowling would achieve damehood for all she has done:
A single mother who had nothing and who became one of the most successful authors of all time
Brought millions into the UK tourist economy and others with her franchise
Paid taxes to give back to the system that supported her when she had nothing
Encouraged a love of reading in millions of children
Gave up her billionaire status for charitable funds
Donated millions in charity, most recently to covid relief in India
Spoke up about womens sex based rights and her own experiences of domestic violence
And I'm sure there's many more. But sadly we don't live in an ideal world so she will just continue to be smeared. While super rich men like Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk do absolutely nothing except use their wealth for expensive boy toys
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judgejohndeed
VIP Member
I'm sorry but Jameela Jamil is one the most unintelligent people on this godforsaken planet. She is the absolute definition of a handmaid.
Our desperation for prescribed gender norms? Wow. Our whole point is that you can be who you want, wear what you want, look how you want, and not be restrained by what 'gender' says you should be or do. That doesn't change your biological sex. It's gender that is the problem, not sex. And it's not us who started arguing that sex and gender are the same thing, is it? That's a TRA notion.
It's her and people who think like her who are the anti-progressives. So scared to see boys in dresses or girls playing football that they have to argue they have a load of damaging surgery to 'correct' their 'wrong' bodies rather than just get on with it in their own skin. Repulsive.
Our desperation for prescribed gender norms? Wow. Our whole point is that you can be who you want, wear what you want, look how you want, and not be restrained by what 'gender' says you should be or do. That doesn't change your biological sex. It's gender that is the problem, not sex. And it's not us who started arguing that sex and gender are the same thing, is it? That's a TRA notion.
It's her and people who think like her who are the anti-progressives. So scared to see boys in dresses or girls playing football that they have to argue they have a load of damaging surgery to 'correct' their 'wrong' bodies rather than just get on with it in their own skin. Repulsive.
Hey! I’m a JK fan and massive HP nerd, though to my shame I’ve yet to read the Strike series (did enjoy it on tv though, one day I’ll get round to reading it...)
I’ve been following the discussion on this thread for a while and thought it time to join in. I was worried this thread would be anti-JK, as per Twitter, so pleasantly surprised it’s more nuanced. Twitter has been a shitshow.
I think people should be able to live their life in peace and be able to express themselves without fear of attack as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. I imagine It must be a difficult thing if struggling with gender dysphoria.
I read her essay and response and I don’t think she’s transphobic at all. I felt awful for her when she was piled on with hateful tweets, the people tweeting that stuff out are just not willing to listen to reason.
I’m bi and came under fire in 2018 for a response I made to an article on Twitter that said ‘women attracted to their same sex should also include trans women’ and was told that a penis on a trans women is ‘feminine’ (yes, somebody honestly said that to me). I’ve been called a bigot, transphobic, threatened with their ‘girldick’, told I should set myself on fire, had pictures of anime characters pointing guns and saying ‘die terf’, and been told I’m invalidating their identity because I’m not attracted to them.
I was told that if someone says they are a woman I should believe them and include them in my dating pool, that sexual attraction is based on gender not sex, but even though they say all these things they’ll say ‘we’re not saying you have to date a trans woman, we’re just saying you’re a bigot if you don’t’. Look up ‘cotton ceiling’, it’s horrendous.
When I ask what the gender of a woman (if a woman isn’t a woman based on sex, then how do you define a woman?) I was blocked or again told if a person says they are a woman they are a woman.
I know trans people in real life and they are nothing like those people you encounter in those types of arguments. They just want to be quietly accepted and live their lives in the mundane ways some of us take for granted.
I’ve been following the discussion on this thread for a while and thought it time to join in. I was worried this thread would be anti-JK, as per Twitter, so pleasantly surprised it’s more nuanced. Twitter has been a shitshow.
I think people should be able to live their life in peace and be able to express themselves without fear of attack as long as they aren’t hurting anyone. I imagine It must be a difficult thing if struggling with gender dysphoria.
I read her essay and response and I don’t think she’s transphobic at all. I felt awful for her when she was piled on with hateful tweets, the people tweeting that stuff out are just not willing to listen to reason.
I’m bi and came under fire in 2018 for a response I made to an article on Twitter that said ‘women attracted to their same sex should also include trans women’ and was told that a penis on a trans women is ‘feminine’ (yes, somebody honestly said that to me). I’ve been called a bigot, transphobic, threatened with their ‘girldick’, told I should set myself on fire, had pictures of anime characters pointing guns and saying ‘die terf’, and been told I’m invalidating their identity because I’m not attracted to them.
I was told that if someone says they are a woman I should believe them and include them in my dating pool, that sexual attraction is based on gender not sex, but even though they say all these things they’ll say ‘we’re not saying you have to date a trans woman, we’re just saying you’re a bigot if you don’t’. Look up ‘cotton ceiling’, it’s horrendous.
When I ask what the gender of a woman (if a woman isn’t a woman based on sex, then how do you define a woman?) I was blocked or again told if a person says they are a woman they are a woman.
I know trans people in real life and they are nothing like those people you encounter in those types of arguments. They just want to be quietly accepted and live their lives in the mundane ways some of us take for granted.
CheshireLove
VIP Member
Unsurprisingly the answer is no. A few occasions but nothing on a similar scale.
We've had women referred to as 'vagina owners' and 'vulva people', 'induviduals with a cervix', 'people who bleed' (by Tampax!), the 'vagina people', 'pregnant people', 'birth givers' and of course the infamous 'menstruators'.
I think perhaps the pièce de résistance for me was Sands, a stillbirth support charity, tweeting about 'the birthing parent' and 'non-birthing parent'. They later issued an apology tweet when, what a surprise, women who have lost babies were offended to not have been referred to as mothers, which they are.
Teen Vogue once ran an article on 'prostate owners' but in the same article also talked about the 'non-prostate owners'....
When a charity that is supposed to support mothers after the death of a baby won't even write the word 'mother', there's an issue there.
PollyPerks
Well-known member
JK's charitable trust is supporting those affected by COVID in India:
I love how, despite all the abuse that's been thrown at her, she just rolls on being an incredible human being.
I love how, despite all the abuse that's been thrown at her, she just rolls on being an incredible human being.
Vanelope
VIP Member
This is exactly why I find a lot of the talk about gender stereotypes to be completely regressive. Harry Styles enjoys lace and skirts. Doesn’t mean he is trans. Billy Porter wears a gown to the Oscars, a full on gown. He is a man in a dress, it is not drag, he is not trans. He is expressing himself through fashion. That is almost the most revolutionary way of thinking of all. Ellen always wears a suit, she has short hair. She is married to a woman, she has never said she is a man.
FKAcigs
Member
Hi all,
This was me on my old account (I deleted and came crawling back to Tattle
)I'd just like to say that I have done lots of reading and listening and reflecting and I have well and truly "peaked".
I appreciated the respectful replies on this thread to my original comment. I wouldn't have received such replies from TRAs. These responses gave me the space to really explore my feelings around the situation. I'm still thinking and learning but my views have changed quite drastically since the post I've quoted. I now believe women's-only spaces should be just that. And I will certainly not be referring to breastfeeding as "chestfeeding".
emmer_moans
VIP Member
I am concerned about the increasing threat of suicide because people don't like what celebs have said about them.
1) it undermines the seriousness of people genuinely contemplating suicide
2) it's manipulative to say publically that someone should shut up/say sorry to appease you else they can be blamed for suicide.
We seem to have a young generation of people who:-
1) have no critical thinking skills or awareness
2) are super sensitive and narcissistic
3) hyper focus on their own desires and lack empathy for others
4) seem to encourage policing of thought
5) weaponising suicide threats
Etc etc
What a sick world!
Why on earth should JKR give all her money away, she already donates to many causes plus of course she earned it, and has family to support too. The entitlement of people continues to astonish me.
1) it undermines the seriousness of people genuinely contemplating suicide
2) it's manipulative to say publically that someone should shut up/say sorry to appease you else they can be blamed for suicide.
We seem to have a young generation of people who:-
1) have no critical thinking skills or awareness
2) are super sensitive and narcissistic
3) hyper focus on their own desires and lack empathy for others
4) seem to encourage policing of thought
5) weaponising suicide threats
Etc etc
What a sick world!
Why on earth should JKR give all her money away, she already donates to many causes plus of course she earned it, and has family to support too. The entitlement of people continues to astonish me.
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Scotch Mist
VIP Member
We need to talk about Ellen Page
I’m sorry, but a woman cannot just click her fingers and become a ‘he’.
www.spiked-online.com
'How can someone who doesn’t have male biology and who has had no male experiences – boyhood, male puberty, masculine impulses, being a brother, an uncle, a father – be a ‘he’? How does that work? Is it magic? Or have words like male, he, brother and father been so denuded of meaning thanks to the cult of genderfluidity that anyone can adopt them as their preferred identity? It is not prejudiced to ask these questions; it is reasonable, and important.'
CheshireLove
VIP Member
The sheer entitlement stinks. The purpose of the NHS is to provide a basic standard of healthcare to all and despite complaints, it does a fantastic job, especially given the chronic underfunding. It isn’t a service you can make demands of. You want something that isn’t covered? Pay for it yourself! The NHS will save a life in a traffic accident, save your life from cancer and helps birth babies everyday. Is that not enough?! I’m so fed up with that kind of entitled attitude.
SqualorVictoria
VIP Member
There's many people that didn't even read her essay but are just repeating the crap they heard on social media about her being a transphobe. I have asked many, many anti JK Rowling people for *specific quotes* on what she has said that's transphobic but no one can ever answer- they'll go off on one about how trans people face more violence than anyone else and JK Rowling is contributing to that but no one can ever give a specific example of anything bad she has said
FrannyGallops
VIP Member
The very idea that JKR is ‘poorly educated’ is just laughable, as is the idea that Oscar Wilde would be a TRA and could school her into the ‘correct’ way of thinking. I despise this notion that the fight for gay rights (i.e the right to get married, section 28, the right to just actually be gay) is in any way equal to trans rights. What rights do trans people not have at the moment that ‘cis’ (sorry) people have? Have any trans people been jailed just for being trans? Has mention of trans people been struck from teaching material in schools? Are trans people not allowed to get married? It’s complete and utter bollocks.
SqualorVictoria
VIP Member
Sorry TRAs, I got bad news for you. You just can't cancel her!
www.thebookseller.com