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im not sure if i have the right jeannette bogan but has anybody seen her post about her daughters kids been taken by ss the last couple yrs
i dont know what im allowed to put on here but its a right old mess
 
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Ray_of_Sunshine

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Today’s updates - need to be read from bottom up:

3:30pm29/06/26
Emergency services
Jurors are watching CCTV footage of the paramedics arriving at the house on Hartington Close at 4.18pm.
Walker can be heard telling them that Isabelle had been in hospital and had been poorly since.
She messages Simpson saying: "The ambulance is here - I think she might die."
Simpson replies telling her to not 'say s*** like that'.
While speaking to paramedics she tells them that no one else had been at her home.
The 25-year-old can he heard asking if she is going to be arrested and says she has to go to talk to the police.
Walker sends messages to Simpson saying she is scared for Isabelle.
She messages him telling him not to return to the house as it's a 'crime scene' and says her daughter has had a heart attack.
She later tells him that they are being 'blue -lighted' to Newcastle RVI.
The hearing has concluded for the day and will resume tomorrow morning.

3:30pm29/06/26
Emergency services
Jurors are watching CCTV footage of the paramedics arriving at the house on Hartington Close at 4.18pm.
Walker can be heard telling them that Isabelle had been in hospital and had been poorly since.
She messages Simpson saying: "The ambulance is here - I think she might die."
Simpson replies telling her to not 'say s*** like that'.
While speaking to paramedics she tells them that no one else had been at her home.
The 25-year-old can he heard asking if she is going to be arrested and says she has to go to talk to the police.
Walker sends messages to Simpson saying she is scared for Isabelle.
She messages him telling him not to return to the house as it's a 'crime scene' and says her daughter has had a heart attack.
She later tells him that they are being 'blue -lighted' to Newcastle RVI.
The hearing has concluded for the day and will resume tomorrow morning.
3:13pm29/06/26
Gravely ill
Jurors watched CCTV footage of Walker smoking a cigarette in her kitchen at around 3.25pm.
Mr Abrahams says Walker makes further Google searches about lethargy while saying Isabelle's name.
By 4pm, Walker is seen to remove the bong from her kitchen and places it outside next to her bin after calling her stepfather.
A few minutes later Walker can be heard saying Isabelle's name while smoking a cigarette in the kitchen.
Shortly after, Walker comes into the kitchen with her daughter in her arms saying 'please, please god'.
Her stepfather arrives at her home at 4.15pm and discovers that Walker has not called the emergency services and almost immediately tells her to ring 999.
The jury is now listening to the 999 call made by Walker.
The operator asks her if her daughter is breathing and Walker says 'I don't thing so'.
She tells Walker that a high-priority is on the way and talks her through how to carry out CPR.
Walker says that her stepfather is carrying out the CPR.
2:58pm29/06/26
Timeline evidence resumes
Mr Abrahams has resumed detailing the timeline of events from the early hours of September 13 before dealing with the start of the day where Simpson is up with Isabelle while Walker remains in bed.
By 11am, Simpson is in the garden while Walker has come down to the kitchen where they are chatting.
Jurors are now being taken through a series of messages from Walker to a variety people as the day progresses.
By 1.30pm, Walker is on the phone to her stepfather Dan Ackroyd telling him she 'needs to sort myself out' but says she is more concerned about Isabelle, who is asleep and not been seen or heard on camera that day.
Walker sends a series of messages with friends telling them that Isabelle is poorly and still in bed.
At 2.53pm, Walker tells Simpson that she is going to wake Isabelle up when she comes back from the shop saying she will be 'up all night' otherwise.
Simpson is caught on CCTV leaving the home just after 3pm.
Mr Abrahams says Walker then Googles ‘why would my toddler be bleeding’. A minute later the CCTV picks up her saying ‘You’re scaring me’.
She then Googles ‘what should I do if my child has blood in his stool’. She can be heard saying ‘come on’ and repeating Isabelle’s name on three occasions.
2:24pm29/06/26
Afternoon Session
The afternoon session of the trial gets under way Robert Durham giving evidence to the jury.
Mr Durham, a next door neighbour of Walker's on Hartington Close, is being taken through his evidence by Richard Wright KC, prosecuting.
He says he could smell 'a bit of weed' at the back of his house causing him to close window as his wife has a bad chest.
Dealing with events on the evening of September 12, the witness says he was at home watching tv when he heard a 'loud thud' at around 7.30pm.
He says: "It sounded like someone hitting the wall and was coming from next door."
When asked how many times he heard the noise, he says: "Just the once."
Nicholas Lumley KC, representing Simpson, is now cross examining Mr Durham's evidence.
He confirms that he heard the 'thud' at between 7pm and 7.30pm which sounded like it had hit the interior walls of the properties.
Mark McKone KC, representing Walker, has taken over questioning the witness.
Mr Durham confirms that he made his statement to the police seven days after hearing the 'thud' and says he knew the time as he was watching a tv programme that is on regularly.
He confirms that he didn't hear adults shouting or a child crying at the time of the thud.
1:05pm29/06/26
Day of fatal injury
Mr Abrahams has resumed with the timeline evidence and is dealing with events in the early hours of Saturday, September 13 - the day Isabelle suffered her fatal head injury.
He says Walker made a series of calls where she is telling someone that she was stabbed in the hand, shoulder and leg.
Simpson is seen on the CCTV footage coming in and out of the kitchen while Walker is on the phone getting angry when she is told she 'has been drinking' and shouts 'I'm not making a f****** drama'.
Shortly after 2am, Walker is captured on the same camera punching kitchen cupboard doors.
A snapchat video posted by Walker at around 2.45am was shown to the jury.
Five minutes later, Simpson is seen in the kitchen with his bong in his hands while Walker continues to drink from a can of lager.
The trial has adjourned for lunch and resume at 2pm.
12:49pm29/06/26
Old times
Richard Wright KC has taken over the evidence as he reads a statement into the record from Walker's childhood friend Sarah Ayre.
She recollects receiving a call from Walker where she told her that Isabelle was ill but didn't say what the problem was.
She says: "I would say she was on something from the way she was muttering her words."
The barrister is now reading two further written statements into the court record.
Another childhood friend says Walker moved to Barnard Castle to live with Isabelle's father before returning to Thornaby when the relationship broke down.
Katie Settle says Walker was paranoid 'someone was watching her' and her friend helped her to install two CCTV cameras in her new home after helping her move in.
The witness recounts how Walker told her she had been stabbed in the chest when someone ran into her home and stole her stash of cannabis.
Courtney Gibson, who only knew Walker through her best friend Ms Settle, confirms that she gave her two CCTV cameras to put in her house as she was concerned for her safety amid fears her former partner was following her.
12:37pm29/06/26
CCTV footage
The CCTV captures Walker starting to drink lager while on her mobile phone engaged in an angry conversation with someone.
Simpson returns to the Thornaby property where they are talking together in the kitchen.
The jury hears that Walker continues to drink while Simpson goes into the garden to smoke drugs from his bong.
12:29pm29/06/26
Trial resumes
Mr Abrahams has resumed taking the jury through the timeline of events.
He is dealing with what happened on September 12 where Walker tells her mother that Isabelle has started 'throwing up' again.
By mid-afternoon, Walker says her daughter is unwell again and is upset seeing her like that.
She messages her mother who asks her what she wants from Asda and she tells her ten cans of Stella to deal with her 'stress' as well as asking for nappies and food.
A phone message captures Isabelle at 4.46pm laid on her mother while Walker tells someone that she 'really isn't well'.
CCTV footage captures Claire Walker and Dan Ackroyd dropping off bags filled with shopping at around 5.30pm.
Mr Ackroyd is seen carrying a pack of Stella into the house.
11:49am29/06/26
Timeline continues
On September 12, there are clips of CCTV capturing Isabelle crying and her mother asking her what's up.
The camera also captures Simpson talking to Isabelle in the house at around midday.
There is now a short break in proseedings.
11:38am29/06/26
Stomach ache
Walker says Isabelle hasn't been sick for two days but is still complaining about her stomach hurting.
She says she has started eating again and has not thrown up.
Mr Abrahams is showing footage from September 11 when Claire Walker visited her daughter.
Ms Walker raises concerns with her daughter that when you look at Isabelle 'she looks like she has been abused'.
She can be heard saying 'I know she isn't but look at her'.
Further CCTV footage captures Walker complaining about all the washing she is having to do to her mother before telling her mother 'to chill out'.
Simpson messages Walker telling her that he is heading to her house and she tells him that her mother is still there but 'she won't bite you'.
Claire Walker then leaves before sending a series of messages to her daughter telling her that she is worried out her and offers to let her move back in with.
11:24am29/06/26
Return to timeline
Mr Abrahams is now resuming the timeline evidence with the jury.
They are dealing with videos and photographs involving interactions between Walker, Simpson and Isabelle.
He says on September 9, the CCTV captures Simpson in the garden of the Thornaby home of the toddler before a thud can be heard and Isabelle cries out.
By the afternoon, CCTV captures Simpson leaving the address on his bike before Walker then leaves the house with Isabelle.
In the early evening, Walker makes a telephone call discussing the call with the health visitor and can be heard saying that Isabelle 'is still not right'.
Simpson returns to the house at around 10.30pm.
On September 10, Isabelle is captured sitting at a child's table in a photograph taken by Simpson.
A short video is played to the jury showing Isabelle holding a sick bowl and telling Simpson that her stomach hurts.
CCTV footage shows Simpson leaving the house in the middle of the afternoon.
A series of messages showed Isabelle was missing her friends at nursery.
11:03am29/06/26
Delayed treatment
Miss Betts tells the jury that she believed that the incidents had occurred one after the other and there was no mention of any delay in taking Isabelle to hospital.
She tells the jury that Walker told her that Isabelle didn't require a pot on her leg and could go back to nursery.
Mr Wright asks the health visitor what the 'next steps' would be following the telephone call. She says they talked about home safety to prevent this kind of thing happening again.
The witness is now being cross examined by Simpson's defence barrister, Nicholas Lumley KC.
Miss Betts confirms that Walker did not tell her that she didn't want Isabelle to stay overnight in hospital.
"You were relying on what you were being told?" he says. The nurse replies: "Exactly."
Mark McKone KC, representing Walker, is now asking the witness questions.
He asks her about the telephone and whether a home visit was required. She says there was no need for a home visit to be instigated. "She was putting in place home safety changes."
She confirms that she did not ask Walker whether she had a current boyfriend at the time of the telephone call.
Mr Wright is re-examining Miss Betts evidence. She confirms that she was never told there had been a delay in taking Isabelle to hospital and was never made aware that the toddler was being sick following her discharge from hospital.
"You were relying on things that you were told," he asks. She says simply: "Yes."
10:52am29/06/26
Health visitor
Eileen Betts, a qualified nurse, is giving evidence about her interactions with Alexandra Walker following Isabelle's discharge from hospital after she was treated for her broken leg.
She says the notification came through five days after the hospital release and it referenced details of the injury and no 'safeguarding' concern was raised.
Richard Wright KC, the prosecuting barrister, asks Miss Betts what happened during the telephone call with Alexandra Walker on September 9.
The health visitor says she called Isabelle's mother and she told her that they had been to A&E and was upset about 'being accused of harming Isabelle'.
When asked about the injury, she says: "She said there was some confusion between the doctors about the kind of fracture it was."
Mr Wright asks the health visitor what Walker told her about how the break happened.
She says Walker told her that she heard Isabelle cry and when she went to check on her she could see her leg stuck between the cot bars before gently removing her daughter's leg back through the bars.
Miss Betts confirms that Walker didn't mention anyone else being in the house at the time the leg break happened.
10:38am29/06/26
Timeline continues
Paul Abrahams, from the prosecution team, will continue taking the jury through a timeline of events in the time leading up to the death of Isabelle Welsh in September last year.
Detective Constable Nicola Meakin is delivering the evidence compiled by Cleveland Police during the murder investigation into the toddler's mother, Alexandra Walker, and Harrison Simpson.
They are dealing with a series of messages sent and received by the pair.
CCTV cameras inside the home of 25-year-old Walker captured the couple moving around the house.
10:34am29/06/26
Evidence recap
Good morning, if you want to read a recap of Friday's evidence click here - Isabelle Welsh's mother 'intimidated' nurse in hospital, jury told
Did the “mother” deliver the fatal head injury?
 
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Lucymyers

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What do you do though? If father’s go and physically take the child they’ll be arrested and lose any chance of contact in the future. In this case she’d accused him of DV and had CCTV up, so if he’d gone near the house even just to try and see Isabel he would have been arrested. People say about Dads and Grandparents, ‘Why didn’t they just take the child’, but they’d be arrested for it and potentially even blamed for any injuries and the child would probably be returned to the abusers without even the minimal contact they had previously. It happened in the Star Hobson case, the Great Grandparevts weren’t arrested, but social services believed the family had lied about Star’s whereabouts to get them to her Great Grandparents and then put make up on Star to fake an injury for photographs. They were warned off and threatened with arrest.
If he had pr no he wouldnt be arrested
 
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Lucymyers

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I thought this was going to be pretty open and shut, particularly in HS case because nobody else could have raped Isabelle. Taking a long time makes me worry they could be thinking of not convicting one of them on all the charges. Hopefully they’re just being very careful.
The mother has been charged with sexual assaulting her also
 
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Cry me a river

VIP Member
At the end of the day, the dad didn’t kill her. She may have kept her from him, who knows. He’s not the one who broke her bones or sexually assaulted her and not the one who turned a blind eye. If she had full custody, there’s nothing he could have done when AW own mother did sweet f all.
Did AW have cameras up because of him ?
I mean she had them up because of ‘ someone ‘ .
 
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zogsmum

Active member
t

Judging from the type of person his Dad was and the type of person HS is, I’d say there’s a pretty strong chance his Dad had very little to do with him as he was growing up. The Dad did a long prison sentence and wasn’t in a relationship with the Mum, it’s quite unusual in that situation for a Dad to keep up contact with his kid/s.
HS has got pictures of his son and pictures of him with his dad when he was younger saying can’t wait for you to meet your grandson, hang in there dad etc
on FB. I think he was in contact with his son but whether he distanced himself after these allegations… not sure.
 
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Cry me a river

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Incidentally, given what we now know about AW making false allegations, it seems distinctly possible that he never committed any DV in the first place. We don’t know that he wasn’t paying maintenance either. Probably he was doing what he was advised to do, staying away and keeping his nose clean because he thought it was his best chance of seeing the child in the long term.

If any man in his situation had started (on the basis of no evidence because he hadn’t seen Isabelle) that he was going to march down to AW’s house and grab his child and take her away, anyone with the slightest grain of sanity would have told him it was a terrible idea, he shouldn’t even think about doing it and it was the best way for him to be cut out of Isabelle’s life completely.

It must be a pretty scary situation if your alcoholic baby Mama makes false allegations against you and manipulates the situation so you are suddenly the bad guy and the one with no access to your child, He doesn’t seem like the brightest bulb, and if there is one thing this trial seems to have proven, it’s that AW is a manipulative liar and schemer. I don’t think he was any match for her games, sadly for Isabelle.
he must be an unlucky guy getting accused of things he’s not done ..
 
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Cry me a river

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Her mum also testified that she was a victim of domestic abuse, which also included Isabelle’s father.

Updates from today so far will hide under a spoiler as they’re long, will need to be read from bottom up:

3:13pm25/06/26
CPR attempt
Mr Ackroyd says Alexandra was shaking and crying when he got to her home.
He says paramedics arrived and took over CPR and managed to get Isabelle's heart going again and they took her to the University Hospital of North Tees.
He tells officers that he sees Alexandra around three times a week and would bring Isabelle with her.
Officers then quizzed him about Isabelle being poorly in the period leading up to her death.
He says they thought she has a virus but seemed to have perked up a bit.
The officers asked him if he had noticed any bruising and says he knew she had a hairline fracture of her leg and believed it had been caused by her putting it through the bars of her cot.

2:55pm25/06/26
Stepfather's evidence
Alexandra Walker's stepfather, Dan Ackroyd, was interviewed by police following the death of Isabelle.
He tells the police that she rang him in a total panic and he told her to ring 999 before heading to her home in Thornaby.
"I saw Isabelle on the floor in the hallway," he says. "Alex was holding her hand, I have dropped to me knees straightaway to check her.
"I tried looking for a pulse, to see if she was breathing and started CPR."
The officer asks Mr Ackroyd about Isabelle and how she looked when he got to the house.
He says: "She was very, very pale."
Mr Ackroyd struggles to contain his emotions as police continue to ask him about what happened when he arrived at the house.

2:26pm25/06/26
Isabelle's death
Mr McKone is now asking Miss Walker about the days leading up to her death.
He asks whether she thought she was starting to get better, she says: "The last time I saw her, I thought she was improving.
The completes the evidence of Alexandra Walker's mother.
2:24pm25/06/26
Cross examination
Mr McKone asks Miss Walker whether her daughter loved Isabelle, she replies: "I thought she did."
Miss Walker confirms that she never saw her daughter do anything that could have caused Isabelle and harm.
She says they lived were her at one point and had a steady bedtime routine.
Mr McKone asks whether she knew about Simpson bathing Isabelle and she says he would do it when Alexandra was out.
She confirms that she was aware that Alexandra had done some background checks on Harrison Simpson.
When asked about Isabelle's broken leg, she says they thought it was just a fracture that happened.
She confirms that she was not aware of Alexandra being asked whether she was the victim of domestic abuse.
Mr McKone asks Miss Walker whether she thought Isabelle needed to be kept in hospital overnight, she says: "No."
"Did you support her taking Isabelle home?," he asks. Miss Walker replies: "Yes."
2:14pm25/06/26
Trail resumes
The trial resumes with Claire Walker giving further evidence.
Alexandra Walker's mother will first take some questions from Mark McKone KC, who represents the 25-year-old.
The barrister says he will ask her about five brief topics including questions about her former boyfriends.
Miss Walker confirms that her daughter was the victim of domestic abuse from two men, including Isabelle's father.
She confirms that Alexandra got CCTV in her home for her own protection.
When asked whether she had met Harrison Simpson, she says she hadn't because 'he suffers with anxiety and doesn't want to meet with me'.
She confirms that she would see her daughter every day when she was off work - up to three to five times a week.
When asked if Alexandra was a good mother, she says: "I have never seen her harm her or hit her."
Miss Walker confirms that her daughter would give Isabelle as much as she could and she was 'always immaculately dressed'.
12:50pm25/06/26
Second interview
The police are asking Ms Walker about when she changed Isabelle's nappy when she noticed the little bruise on her hip.
She says it was on Thursday, September 11 but never noticed any bruising on her granddaughter's genitals.
When asked what she was thinking at the time. "I was just thinking 'how has she got these bruises?' they weren't massive," she says.
"I didn't think that the bruises were abuse."
She says she had an argument with Alexandra about the injuries. When asked what explanation she gave her, she says she told her she had bumped her head.
Ms Walker tells the police officer that her daughter installed the CCTV in her home for her own safety after she was the victim of domestic abuse.
The hearing has adjourned for lunch.
12:38pm25/06/26
Isabelle's injuries
Ms Walker says she noticed Isabelle had a bump on her head and a bruise on her back after she had been taken to hospital for her broken leg.
She say: "I had never seen them before. There was one on the bottom of her spine and the bump on her head."
Isabelle also had a fingerprint bruise on her hip, she says.
When asked what Alexandra said to her about the hip bruise, she replies: "She said she had banged it on the settee or something."
The officer asked how Isabelle appeared. "She was looking white, at that time, I thought she just had a virus," she says.
Ms Walker tells the police that she had never met Harrison Simpson but had seen a photograph of him.
12:25pm25/06/26
Grandmother's 'regret'
Ms Walker says her partner had picked her up from work and taken her straight to the University Hospital of North Tees.
She says Alexandra told her that she had phoned her stepfather when she picked Isabelle up and she was 'unresponsive'.
The officer asks her whether Isabelle had been ill in the days leading up to her death. She says Isabelle was taken to hospital as she had been limping on her bad leg.
She says 'she was the worst I had seen her' when she visited her the day before Isabelle died.
Ms Walker says Isabelle was also complaining about her stomach hurting but she thought was just because she had been 'throwing up'.
She says she 'is going to regret it for the rest of her life' that she didn't take Isabelle to the doctors on that day.
12:16pm25/06/26
Video evidence
Claire Walker was interviewed by police following the death of her granddaughter.
She tells the officers that her partner, Dan Ackroyd, called her to tell her that Isabelle was seriously ill and she had suffered a brain injury.
Ms Walker says she was told that Isabelle had been taken to the RVI in Newcastle and they headed up there while Isabelle was in emergency care.
She says she told her daughter that she would likely be arrested following the death of Isabelle in the early hours of the morning.
She says: "I was in shock."
The grandmother says she went to see Isabelle the day before and she appeared to be quite ill.
12:02pm25/06/26
Grandmother's evidence
Honourable Ms Justice Norton is telling the jury that they are about to watch a police video interview of Claire Walker, Alexandra's mother, recorded following the death of her granddaughter Isabelle.
She explains to them that it is not unusual for a witness to give evidence in this manner and not in a written statement.
The jury hears how Walker's stepfather, Dan Ackroyd, will also give evidence in this style.

11:31am25/06/26
Medical help
Walker can be heard on the phone to her mother, Claire, saying Isabelle 'has broke nowt' and she intends to keep giving her medicine to ease the pain.
By August 31, Walker is starting to accept that her daughter needs some medical help but is still resisting.
There is now a short break in the hearing.
11:21am25/06/26
Injured leg
Dealing with August 27, Mr Abrahams says a video clip shows Isabelle walking slowly in the garden with an apparent limp.
Later in the day, the CCTV captures Isabelle crying and Walker becoming increasingly frustrated with her, shouting 'what do you want?'.
The footage captures the toddler becoming increasingly distressed and crying loudly.
He says later in the day, Walker is seen drinking alcohol in her kitchen while Simpson is smoking a bong before Walker heads out for a short while.
When she returns home, Walker asks Simpson why he left Isabelle crying and he says 'I didn't hear her, babe'.
Later that evening AW has a text conversation with a friend about the injury to Isabelle’s leg.
Turning to August 28, Mr Abrahams is dealing with a series of messages between Walker and Simpson.
By the evening, Simpson and Walker are in the house together and can be heard talking about Isabelle.
10:55am25/06/26
Video footage
The jury is watching CCTV footage from around 10.10pm on August 23 showing Alexandra Walker and Simpson in the kitchen of the house in Thornaby.
The pair can be heard talking about marks on the two-year-old's legs.
Earlier in the trial, the jury heard how Isabelle suffered a broken leg on or around August 20 but she wasn't taken to hospital until September 2.
Mr Abrahams says Walker searched her new boyfriend's name on an online sex offenders' database.
Footage from August 25, Simpson can be heard asking Isabelle if her leg is hurting while having a conversation with Walker.
10:47am25/06/26
Timeline continues
Paul Abrahams, a member of the prosecuting team, will continue to take Detective Constable Nicola Meakin, of Cleveland Police, through the timeline of events.
The barrister is dealing with details leading up the the alleged murder of Isabelle Welsh.
Jurors are watching CCTV footage of Isabelle sitting on her mother's knee before starting to cry when Harrison Simpson picks her up while they are sitting in the garden on August 23 last year.
Do you have today’s link please ?
 
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Emsie

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It's stupid isn't it? Arguably, you don't have to prove innocence, the prosecution has to prove guilt, so technically, you could sit there and say nothing.
Butttt why would you do that in a jury trial! The jury is human, and they will automatically think no defense, guilt as that's how humans work.
I wouldn't worry about anyone launching an appeal though, there are loads of reasons why someone can appeal and these lot will always find a loophole. Appeals don't mean that someone will be set free, it just wastes taxpayer money and holds up the court system, they rarely get out on appeal.
 
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zogsmum

Active member
Perhaps it's to protect the jury from further horror overload. I haven't bee able to bring myself to read all of the stuff on here - they will have had to read it (in much greater detail) look at photographs, listen to descriptions of the brutality - I can't imagine how it must affect them.
ah okay, that makes sense. Just comparing it to Preston’s which was on every week day.
 
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karmadrama

Chatty Member
I won’t lie, I’m getting quite off vibes from the stepdad after nosying on his Facebook. I have a stepdad who I see as a father, but some of the pictures of them two together seem a bit off. That paired with the giggling in the garden about whether he was Alex’s Dad or Isabelle’s Dad 🤢 not something I’d ever joke about with my stepdad. Maybe I’m just looking too much into it.
I can see what you mean with one of the photos of him and AW. They look more like a couple than stepdad/daughter. But the pictures of him and Isabelle seem nice.
 
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zogsmum

Active member
Isabelle's dads Facebook doesn't mention a word about her until she died. He sounds like an wasteman too. I don't imagine he was paying or providing for Isabelle.
I don’t think he posted anything at all. If he did, it was private, I suppose he may have kept the pictures private but obviously now wants to bring attention to what happened to her?
No one’s really said anything about him or disputed him. We’ll see if anything comes out after the trial.
 
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