House Prices

[Mrs McCarthy]

To be fair, the scenarios you are describing are not necessarily common. Most elderly people sell their homes to pay for care, for example. The vast majority of landlords are in it by choice, not because it was their only option.

Personally I have a problem with the way our entire property and renting infrastructure is set up. I find it gross that so many people think of BTL as an investment for themselves only, when in reality, your property will be someone’s home. People forget this and the way some tenants are treated is beyond belief.

Let’s be honest, the amount of awful landlords out there far exceeds the number of good ones. Around half of private landlords refuse those on benefits for example, and 44% refuse to rent to non-British passport holders. Private landlords are far less likely to return full deposits to tenants than agencies. The general makeup of private landlords in the UK is 50+ white men who don’t believe in climate change! BTL perpetuates the existing unfair social hierarchy under the guise of personal investment.

In general it’s a very selfish way to make a bit of extra cash. It’s also not the cash cow people seem to think it is. I can see how if you’re desperate and you need that extra bit of money monthly, then it probably suits you. For most people however, investing in stocks, shares, financial products and your own home (if possible to add value) is probably more suitable and more lucrative in the long run.

I am a non-British passport holder, and I am not even from EU, so I am aware of the difficulties. However it’s not the landlords fault, it’s the way the whole of the English society is geared in treatment of migrants, whether from EU or non-EU. They are not inventing the problem, they are just following a pattern.
The stories I shared are not singular. My husband’s grandmother is in a care home, and the majority of the residents there are renting their homes. His other set of grandparents are planning to do the same, as do all of their friends.
I feel like people assume that the private landlord is a property mogul with 100s of awful bedsits. Whilst they do exist, the average landlord is not a mogul. The majority of them may be male, white and British, but again it’s because of the way the society is geared.
It’s the same with tenants, the same with people who live in leaseholds, rather than freeholds. We used to live in a leasehold flat that we owned, and the only difference between owning a flat and renting one was that we were allowed to paint our walls whatever colour we wanted.
There is a reason why BTL is popular as an investment. It may be more lucrative to do other things like invest in stocks and shares but you need to understand what you are doing otherwise you will lose money. With BTL you can get an instant return within the first months. If the government wants to tackle this problem, they should change the terms of BTL mortgages; not turn landlords into evil people.

 

[Lanavalentine]

I work in property management, I deal with landlords on a daily basis and I can say about 80-90% of our landlords are good ones.

In regards to 'Around half of private landlords refuse those on benefits', do you know why? Because many freehold insurance policies don't allow it. This isn't a policy the landlord has any power over it, it is issued by the land owner and they are obligated to pay and follow it. We have one in a block of over 60 flats and the policy states no DSS so what is the landlord expected to do because if they do and there is issue that their fault they are liable.

Can I ask where you got your data regarding white 50+ men being the majority of private landlords? I can say from experience this is not the demographic of most of our landlords and specially most of our 'bad' landlords are of a completely different demographic.

From the Government’s English Private Landlord Survey 2018:


Landlords are, on average, older and less ethnically diverse than the general population10. Most have been landlords for some time.
 Over half (59%) of landlords are aged 55 years or older. Not surprisingly, given the older age profile, a third (33%) of landlords are retired. The majority (89%) of landlords are White.

I read about them mostly being male elsewhere, and the climate change non belief is here.

I am aware of the issue with insurance that can occur, but interestingly it seems most landlords seem to find “no DSS” not discriminatory because they feel they should always have final say.

You clearly work for a good company with anectdotal evidence of good landlords, but the bigger picture and stats do not support your claims.

I am a non-British passport holder, and I am not even from EU, so I am aware of the difficulties. However it’s not the landlords fault, it’s the way the whole of the English society is geared in treatment of migrants, whether from EU or non-EU. They are not inventing the problem, they are just following a pattern.
The stories I shared are not singular. My husband’s grandmother is in a care home, and the majority of the residents there are renting their homes. His other set of grandparents are planning to do the same, as do all of their friends.
I feel like people assume that the private landlord is a property mogul with 100s of awful bedsits. Whilst they do exist, the average landlord is not a mogul. The majority of them may be male, white and British, but again it’s because of the way the society is geared.
It’s the same with tenants, the same with people who live in leaseholds, rather than freeholds. We used to live in a leasehold flat that we owned, and the only difference between owning a flat and renting one was that we were allowed to paint our walls whatever colour we wanted.
There is a reason why BTL is popular as an investment. It may be more lucrative to do other things like invest in stocks and shares but you need to understand what you are doing otherwise you will lose money. With BTL you can get an instant return within the first months. If the government wants to tackle this problem, they should change the terms of BTL mortgages; not turn landlords into evil people.

I think the fact that they’re perpetuating the problem (rather than creating it) is what most people take issue with. I did say that in my post.

I think most people are aware that the majority (45%) of private landlords only have one property they rent. I’m not picturing someone who owns 100 bedsits with no hot water. I’m thinking of the landlords I’ve had and landlords I know.

 

[Mrs McCarthy]

From the Government’s English Private Landlord Survey 2018:


Landlords are, on average, older and less ethnically diverse than the general population10. Most have been landlords for some time.
 Over half (59%) of landlords are aged 55 years or older. Not surprisingly, given the older age profile, a third (33%) of landlords are retired. The majority (89%) of landlords are White.

I read about them mostly being male elsewhere, and the climate change non belief is here.

I am aware of the issue with insurance that can occur, but interestingly it seems most landlords seem to find “no DSS” not discriminatory because they feel they should always have final say: https://www.landlordtoday.co.uk/bre...on-say-most-landlords-in-poll?source=trending

You clearly work for a good company with anectdotal evidence of good landlords, but the bigger picture and stats do not support your claims.

So you tell me that the people I know who rent their properties to supplement pensions or care are not common, and yet the data you just posted proofs that 33 percent of landlords are retired. Do you not think that you contradict yourself?

 

[Lanavalentine]

So you tell me that the people I know who rent their properties to supplement pensions or care are not common, and yet the data you just posted proofs that 33 percent of landlords are retired. Do you not think that you contradict yourself?

No I don’t. I don’t think retired = renting a property privately to pay for their care home bills?!

 

[Yel]

BTL is no longer profitable for an 'average person' without setting up an Ltd. The amount of tenant rights (hurray!) and landlord obligations are slowly making it not lucrative as an investment. Younger generations invest in stocks & shares which bring the similar ROI without the hassle of taking care of tenants/properties.

Exactly. You can go to your local financial advisor and be pointed in the direction of a fund that will provide similar if not better returns over the long term.

The BTL people seem to want an investment with a guaranteed return. Either you risk it investing or stick it in a savings account. It's not surprising that evictions are banned during a pandemic. Tenants not paying and the government bringing in legislation to protect tenants is such an obvious risk it's embarrassing that people complain about it.

They had some good years with the loopholes that made it lucrative and the free flow of money that caused an asset bubble. But it was never going to continue forever. It's a very illiquid asset and easy to tax.

In general it’s a very selfish way to make a bit of extra cash.

Yep. I'm not surprised so many people defend it - the average person is pretty selfish so the idea of someone else having to go out to work to pay their mortgage is very appealing.

I think most people are aware that the majority (45%) of private landlords only have one property they rent. I’m not picturing someone who owns 100 bedsits with no hot water.

Agreed, the vast majority of people think BTL people are someone with 1-3 properties that watches the BBC daytime schedule full of it's property porn. That's what creates the problem when your average person can easily become an amateur landlord so it's flooded with millions new of people.

 

[Yel]

Anyway back to house prices, otherwise we could go on all day long with landlords are providing an essential service / exploitative bottom feeders argument

House prices pretty much static in Feb. But I'd think that says prices are going to stay static? Most that wanted to move have probably done by now or were due to complete by end of March. The samp duty extension will stop a cliff edge, but can't see another frenzy being kicked off. The gov will now subsidise up to 3000 people with a low deposit every month but that feels like it will be treading water.

Will be interesting once the SD exception is removed to see what happens.


House prices dipped slightly in February, Halifax says, recording a 0.1 per cent fall.

On an annual basis, house prices grew 5.2 per cent, the lender adds, with the average house price coming to £251,697.

Quarterly, this equates to a 0.5 per cent change.

It has been a soft start to 2020, says Halifax managing director Russell Galley, and “the housing market has been at something of a crossroads.”

However, recent budget announcements, such as the extension to stamp duty and the mortgage guarantee scheme have “removed a great deal of uncertainty for buyers with transactions yet to complete”.

He adds that the long term housing market performance “remains inextricably linked to the health of the wider economy.”

James Pendleton property expert Lucy Pendleton says: “Now that the stamp duty holiday has been extended, there is nothing standing in the way of a string of new record highs over the coming months.

“While pumping up property prices is unlikely to have been the chancellor’s aim, he has effectively fired the starting gun on what is set to be a second honeymoon for house price gains.

“Annual house price growth has now been above 5% for seven consecutive months. It will be fascinating to see how long the market can hold on to that growth, but of course such a hot market isn’t welcomed by first-time buyers who will be relying heavily on the government guarantee mortgages that are now going to be available to them.”

And Radstock Property co-founder George Franks says: “March is likely to see a much more pronounced rise in house prices due to the extension of the stamp duty holiday and the new mortgage guarantee scheme.

“Since the Budget we have already noticed an uptick in prospective buyers and this is likely to continue.

“Prices are also being supported by a phenomenal lack of stock. For now, in the capital at least, properties for sale are as rare as hens’ teeth.

“London is in a log jam. The top end want to get out but there is nowhere to go, which means people can’t move up.

“The Halifax is right that the economy and jobs market are key to the trajectory of prices this year, but we believe demand will remain relatively strong as it still costs less to own than to rent and mortgage rates are extraordinarily competitive.”

House prices dip 0.1% in February: Halifax – Mortgage Strategy

House prices dipped slightly in February, Halifax says, recording a 0.1 per cent fall. On an annual basis, house prices grew 5.2 per cent, the lender adds, with the average house price coming to £251,697. Quarterly, this equates to a 0.5 per cent change. It has been a soft start to 2020, says...

www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk

 

[Holidaybobs]

Anyway back to house prices, otherwise we could go on all day long with landlords are providing an essential service / exploitative bottom feeders argument

House prices pretty much static in Feb. But I'd think that says prices are going to stay static? Most that wanted to move have probably done by now or were due to complete by end of March. The samp duty extension will stop a cliff edge, but can't see another frenzy being kicked off. The gov will now subsidise up to 3000 people with a low deposit every month but that feels like it will be treading water.

Will be interesting once the SD exception is removed to see what happens.


House prices dipped slightly in February, Halifax says, recording a 0.1 per cent fall.

On an annual basis, house prices grew 5.2 per cent, the lender adds, with the average house price coming to £251,697.

Quarterly, this equates to a 0.5 per cent change.

It has been a soft start to 2020, says Halifax managing director Russell Galley, and “the housing market has been at something of a crossroads.”

However, recent budget announcements, such as the extension to stamp duty and the mortgage guarantee scheme have “removed a great deal of uncertainty for buyers with transactions yet to complete”.

He adds that the long term housing market performance “remains inextricably linked to the health of the wider economy.”

James Pendleton property expert Lucy Pendleton says: “Now that the stamp duty holiday has been extended, there is nothing standing in the way of a string of new record highs over the coming months.

“While pumping up property prices is unlikely to have been the chancellor’s aim, he has effectively fired the starting gun on what is set to be a second honeymoon for house price gains.

“Annual house price growth has now been above 5% for seven consecutive months. It will be fascinating to see how long the market can hold on to that growth, but of course such a hot market isn’t welcomed by first-time buyers who will be relying heavily on the government guarantee mortgages that are now going to be available to them.”

And Radstock Property co-founder George Franks says: “March is likely to see a much more pronounced rise in house prices due to the extension of the stamp duty holiday and the new mortgage guarantee scheme.

“Since the Budget we have already noticed an uptick in prospective buyers and this is likely to continue.

“Prices are also being supported by a phenomenal lack of stock. For now, in the capital at least, properties for sale are as rare as hens’ teeth.

“London is in a log jam. The top end want to get out but there is nowhere to go, which means people can’t move up.

“The Halifax is right that the economy and jobs market are key to the trajectory of prices this year, but we believe demand will remain relatively strong as it still costs less to own than to rent and mortgage rates are extraordinarily competitive.”

House prices dip 0.1% in February: Halifax – Mortgage Strategy

House prices dipped slightly in February, Halifax says, recording a 0.1 per cent fall. On an annual basis, house prices grew 5.2 per cent, the lender adds, with the average house price coming to £251,697. Quarterly, this equates to a 0.5 per cent change. It has been a soft start to 2020, says...

www.mortgagestrategy.co.uk

Our local market has seen a drastic fall in houses coming to market but, prices are still ridiculous for the houses. Way overpriced for many.

 

[Mrs McCarthy]

Our friends wanted to start looking now, there aren’t enough houses down here (Devon). All the stock keeps being bought by people from SE, who can easily afford to pay more.
They have tried several estate agents, none of them have lots of new stock coming up, and when something comes up, it gets snapped instantly. One estate agent told them that they haven’t done a transaction with a local customer since July!

 

[Lanavalentine]

Our local market has seen a drastic fall in houses coming to market but, prices are still ridiculous for the houses. Way overpriced for many.

This is similar to our local market.

A house we viewed back in June that was on for £850k came back on the market two weeks ago... listed at £975k! It’s gone from RightMove etc very quickly so I can only assume someone offered on it. I’d like to know what the offer was I personally didn’t think it was worth the £850k!

I did worry a bit if we were doing the right thing in buying a new house during the pandemic, but now I’m extremely glad we did. I think if we’d waited even a few months, we’d have ended up stuck because nothing suitable is coming on the market anymore here, and if the house I mentioned above is anything to go by, EAs are squeezing all they can out of the rare house that does pop up!

 

[Holidaybobs]

This is similar to our local market.

A house we viewed back in June that was on for £850k came back on the market two weeks ago... listed at £975k! It’s gone from RightMove etc very quickly so I can only assume someone offered on it. I’d like to know what the offer was I personally didn’t think it was worth the £850k!

I did worry a bit if we were doing the right thing in buying a new house during the pandemic, but now I’m extremely glad we did. I think if we’d waited even a few months, we’d have ended up stuck because nothing suitable is coming on the market anymore here, and if the house I mentioned above is anything to go by, EAs are squeezing all they can out of the rare house that does pop up!

Yes it’s insane. There’s a house in an awful area that at best is worth £140k and it’s up for £215k and it’s sold!! I was in shock seeing it on Rightmove.

We have our house up now as we want to buy some land and build our dream house. It’s up at £2.8m and someone offered £400k less. The market is strange at the moment as my friends house went up for £230k and she sold it for £265k. We’ve decided if we don’t get a reasonable offer then we will rent it out. The EA has been utterly useless.

 

[Yel]

The EA has been utterly useless.

As they ever are! It's a sales job with a low barrier of entry.

Selling something in the millions can take years even without all this turmoil. Around here there's the ones for millions that have been on and off the market for years ever swapping agents.

I do think lots are paying 30k more to "save" 15k on the stamp duty and as the 30k is added to the mortgage it's not as ludicrous as it sounds if thats paid pack slowly over decades with such low interest rates rather than paying the stamp duty when you buy.

All this talk about pay increases, ultra low LTV and it misses the real story that house prices are too expensive and out of sync with wages

 

[Holidaybobs]

As they ever are! It's a sales job with a low barrier of entry.

Selling something in the millions can take years even without all this turmoil. Around here there's the ones for millions that have been on and off the market for years ever swapping agents.

I do think lots are paying 30k more to "save" 15k on the stamp duty and as the 30k is added to the mortgage it's not as ludicrous as it sounds if thats paid pack slowly over decades with such low interest rates rather than paying the stamp duty when you buy.

All this talk about pay increases, ultra low LTV and it misses the real story that house prices are too expensive and out of sync with wages

Exactly, the left hand doesn’t talk to the right hand.

Yes, they do take longer than usual I think. We have had a lot of interest but, my partner heard the estate agent doing the tour as he forgot something and he was hopeless. He didn’t know how the light system worked or anything and it tells you on the switches We could have a renter tomorrow but, would rather sell.

That makes sense the stamp duty has really encouraged people as has this new 95% mortgage. It’s worrying really.

A couple of years ago I did my dissertation on house prices and it’s shocking how low wages are in comparison to house prices. It looks like it’ll only get worse as well.

 

[a.pain]

Hello Tattle gurus. I am looking for some advice on home report valuations (we are in Scotland) I guess the English equivalent would be the structural survey/ mortgage valuation. We are selling our house but the bathroom needs to be completely retiled as there was a gap in the sealant in the shower over bath which meant small amounts of water is escaping down the side and ended up collecting under the floor. We have had to take up the flooring to dry it all out. The tiles are in ok condition but we decided a while back just to go for the full retile as some have small cracks. This job can’t be done until restrictions are lifted here which are likely to be around 5th April. Anyway, we are selling and our estate agent (job title is senior valuer. Although he isn’t a surveyor ) said that the tiles/ flooring wouldn’t affect the value of the house for the home report so we should just proceed with the sale and we can tell buyers the job will be done imminently possibly have it condition of the sale etc, otherwise we lose time in an excellent market. He has obvious motive for getting the property on ASAP and I’m wondering if this actually will affect the value but not enough to make a difference to their commission. I kind of wanted to be able to sell with the nice shiny retiled bathroom all done but nor do I want to wait a month when I may be able to achieve a good price now! Does anyone have any advice to offer?

 

[HoGi]

Hello Tattle gurus. I am looking for some advice on home report valuations (we are in Scotland) I guess the English equivalent would be the structural survey/ mortgage valuation. We are selling our house but the bathroom needs to be completely retiled as there was a gap in the sealant in the shower over bath which meant small amounts of water is escaping down the side and ended up collecting under the floor. We have had to take up the flooring to dry it all out. The tiles are in ok condition but we decided a while back just to go for the full retile as some have small cracks. This job can’t be done until restrictions are lifted here which are likely to be around 5th April. Anyway, we are selling and our estate agent (job title is senior valuer. Although he isn’t a surveyor ) said that the tiles/ flooring wouldn’t affect the value of the house for the home report so we should just proceed with the sale and we can tell buyers the job will be done imminently possibly have it condition of the sale etc, otherwise we lose time in an excellent market. He has obvious motive for getting the property on ASAP and I’m wondering if this actually will affect the value but not enough to make a difference to their commission. I kind of wanted to be able to sell with the nice shiny retiled bathroom all done but nor do I want to wait a month when I may be able to achieve a good price now! Does anyone have any advice to offer?

It might not affect the price, but as a buyer I would be put off.

 

[a.pain]

It might not affect the price, but as a buyer I would be put off.

Ok thanks! Really don’t know what the solution is

 

[Boutros-Boutros Ghali]

I think it depends on the buyer, some might be able to walk in and imagine how it looks finished and be happy to pay the price but others will definitely be put off, either because they can’t imagine how it’ll look finished, because they may not like the finished room or because it may give them hassle trying to sort it out....you could always just put it on and see what happens

 

[Giggling Squid]

Depends on what they’re planning to do and the state of the bathroom as a whole...
If they would redo it themselves quickly after purchasing then as long as it’s only costmekc damage it shouldn’t be a problem. However if it’s either caused structural damage or potential buyers would be planning to use the bathroom as is for a longer period then I can see it would be a deal breaker

 

[a.pain]

Depends on what they’re planning to do and the state of the bathroom as a whole...
If they would redo it themselves quickly after purchasing then as long as it’s only costmekc damage it shouldn’t be a problem. However if it’s either caused structural damage or potential buyers would be planning to use the bathroom as is for a longer period then I can see it would be a deal breaker

I’m hoping it will be ok- by the time we get the house on the market it should only be a couple of weeks until the work gets done. The wall tiles look completely fine as they are, there’s no structural damage. The cracks are tiny and you could get away with just redoing the sealant but we already committed to the full retile as we booked it before we decided to move and I think it would still be a good thing to do. If the floor was ok then I’d have no hesitation because it would look fine. It’s just a bit of the floor is bare until I can get it relaid with the tiles. Just aware it’s in the middle of getting a job done so I fully appreciate some people would want to see the finished article. We aren’t in any rush so even if people were put off then fingers crossed it would be done soon then any subsequent viewers will see the finished job! Bloody covid and I’m aware that this is a relatively small problem but it’s feeling like is there nothing that will just to smoothly right now!

 

[Fizzwhizz2020]

It’s hard to tell given the extension to the stamp duty holiday and also buyers being given a government backed protection of up to £600k. So banks can now lend with 5% deposits. So I would assume that demand might increase but doesn’t necessarily mean prices will increase, there might just be more competition per house. Also, interest rates are low at the moment. But I don’t think economists are predicting a full on recession.

 

[JoeBloggs]

Hello Tattle gurus. I am looking for some advice on home report valuations (we are in Scotland) I guess the English equivalent would be the structural survey/ mortgage valuation. We are selling our house but the bathroom needs to be completely retiled as there was a gap in the sealant in the shower over bath which meant small amounts of water is escaping down the side and ended up collecting under the floor. We have had to take up the flooring to dry it all out. The tiles are in ok condition but we decided a while back just to go for the full retile as some have small cracks. This job can’t be done until restrictions are lifted here which are likely to be around 5th April. Anyway, we are selling and our estate agent (job title is senior valuer. Although he isn’t a surveyor ) said that the tiles/ flooring wouldn’t affect the value of the house for the home report so we should just proceed with the sale and we can tell buyers the job will be done imminently possibly have it condition of the sale etc, otherwise we lose time in an excellent market. He has obvious motive for getting the property on ASAP and I’m wondering if this actually will affect the value but not enough to make a difference to their commission. I kind of wanted to be able to sell with the nice shiny retiled bathroom all done but nor do I want to wait a month when I may be able to achieve a good price now! Does anyone have any advice to offer?

Honestly, I would reduce the sale and sell not done. It's lovely to sell all shiny but ultimately it may not be what the buyer wants and therefore may not get the sale you want.

I find it made that people are so keen for these 95% mortgages, yes it gets you on the ladder but it just brings back the 2008 crash. I wish they would have finances on the curriculum so people really understood these things.

I know of quite a few people who now don't need to be in the office, have moved away from the commuter belt and bought bigger for less. I would move to the coast in a heartbeat if I could.