No it's not about prioritising or a choice, for many people it's mathematically impossible to save more than houses are rising or saving for a large enough deposit is at least a decade away.
- Notice
Lanavalentine
VIP Member
And then those same landlords complain they can only get messy tenants that ruin the place. Well maybe if you made the property nicer in the first place, you’d attract a more house proud type of tenant?!
Shared ownership is a load of wank. It's sold as a scheme to help people but what it's there to do is prop up prices and help developers sell at a premium and help sell more financial products. So many cons with it that come back to bite.
Remove all the props and let prices align with wages. Also have rental sector fit for a developed country that provides security for those that can't or don't want to buy so that they aren't forced into shady schemes.
Remove all the props and let prices align with wages. Also have rental sector fit for a developed country that provides security for those that can't or don't want to buy so that they aren't forced into shady schemes.
This springs to mind. The whole system is such a crock of shit.
Attachments
This article on Tony Blair from 2016 popped up, says it pretty well:
On Monday, the Guardian reported that the Blairs now own a £27m property empire containing 37 different properties. They own an £8.5m Georgian townhouse in Connaught Square (that’s more than doubled in value since they bought it in 2004). They own a £750,000 country home out in Buckinghamshire (I mean, we all like to get out of London sometimes, right?).
The Blairs, to be fair, aren’t keeping all this wealth to themselves, but are redistributing some of it. Specifically, they’re redistributing it to their children, three of whom have names on the deeds of their own central London properties worth upwards of £1m. Eldest son Euan is also a director of Oldbury Residential, a buy-to-let company with 27 homes in Greater Manchester, which he co-owns with his mother, Cherie. His younger brother Leo doesn’t yet seem to own any real estate, in prime central London or otherwise. He’s only 15, though, so there’s still time.
To be fair to the Blairs, they’re only doing what many other families have done. Buy-to-let homes have become the asset class of choice for the well-to-do baby boomer, for the very good reason that returns on most other forms of investment have been rubbish. And, as the bubble has inflated, more and more affluent parents have felt it’s their duty to pass the wealth down to their kids. It’s rational. It’s natural, even.
But there are two problems with this argument. One is that, however inadvertently, Tony Blair was one of the architects of the housing crisis in which we now find ourselves and of all the problems that flow from it. I don’t think that was deliberate – but he is nonetheless profiting from a crisis that he helped to create, and that’s a pretty big black mark against any leader’s record.
The other problem with dismissing the Blair property empire as normal, middle class behaviour writ large is that it downplays quite how damaging the buy-to-let boom actually is. It isn’t simply that it’s crowded first-time-buyers out of the market, though that hasn’t helped. It’s that it’s created an entire class of people who have a financial interest in keeping rents as high, and housing regulations as weak, as possible.
Landlords tend to be older and richer than their tenants; they’re also more likely to stay in a constituency, and more likely to vote while they’re there. All those things make it far easier for the former group to get their voices heard than the latter.
As if that weren’t enough, nearly a third of MPs are landlords too, and while most no doubt think they do their best to hear both sides of the argument before legislating, they will nonetheless find it much easier to grasp the arguments against stronger tenant rights than the ones in favour of it. People are generally remarkably adept at seeing the moral case for their own financial self-interest.
The government of Tony Blair helped create the buy-to-let class. Now, he is its prophet, its talisman, its patient zero. Yes, the Blairs are only doing what any other rich, middle class family would do. That is precisely the problem.
citymonitor.ai
On Monday, the Guardian reported that the Blairs now own a £27m property empire containing 37 different properties. They own an £8.5m Georgian townhouse in Connaught Square (that’s more than doubled in value since they bought it in 2004). They own a £750,000 country home out in Buckinghamshire (I mean, we all like to get out of London sometimes, right?).
The Blairs, to be fair, aren’t keeping all this wealth to themselves, but are redistributing some of it. Specifically, they’re redistributing it to their children, three of whom have names on the deeds of their own central London properties worth upwards of £1m. Eldest son Euan is also a director of Oldbury Residential, a buy-to-let company with 27 homes in Greater Manchester, which he co-owns with his mother, Cherie. His younger brother Leo doesn’t yet seem to own any real estate, in prime central London or otherwise. He’s only 15, though, so there’s still time.
To be fair to the Blairs, they’re only doing what many other families have done. Buy-to-let homes have become the asset class of choice for the well-to-do baby boomer, for the very good reason that returns on most other forms of investment have been rubbish. And, as the bubble has inflated, more and more affluent parents have felt it’s their duty to pass the wealth down to their kids. It’s rational. It’s natural, even.
But there are two problems with this argument. One is that, however inadvertently, Tony Blair was one of the architects of the housing crisis in which we now find ourselves and of all the problems that flow from it. I don’t think that was deliberate – but he is nonetheless profiting from a crisis that he helped to create, and that’s a pretty big black mark against any leader’s record.
The other problem with dismissing the Blair property empire as normal, middle class behaviour writ large is that it downplays quite how damaging the buy-to-let boom actually is. It isn’t simply that it’s crowded first-time-buyers out of the market, though that hasn’t helped. It’s that it’s created an entire class of people who have a financial interest in keeping rents as high, and housing regulations as weak, as possible.
Landlords tend to be older and richer than their tenants; they’re also more likely to stay in a constituency, and more likely to vote while they’re there. All those things make it far easier for the former group to get their voices heard than the latter.
As if that weren’t enough, nearly a third of MPs are landlords too, and while most no doubt think they do their best to hear both sides of the argument before legislating, they will nonetheless find it much easier to grasp the arguments against stronger tenant rights than the ones in favour of it. People are generally remarkably adept at seeing the moral case for their own financial self-interest.
The government of Tony Blair helped create the buy-to-let class. Now, he is its prophet, its talisman, its patient zero. Yes, the Blairs are only doing what any other rich, middle class family would do. That is precisely the problem.
“Tony Blair helped create the buy-to-let class. Now, he is its prophet, its talisman, its patient zero”
Maybe I'm getting soft in my old age, but I sometimes feel like the Left gets a bit mean about Tony Blair on occasion. Sure, he had a strange fetish for
citymonitor.ai
hollowcrown
Chatty Member
Every time bad landlords are brought up someone is always there to say something like "Well what about my old grandma who is a landlord too she's alright" or brings up one of the few good landlords who do the work that they should be doing at a minimum.
Most people do not have good landlords and that's a problem. Rooms are not redecorated in between tenancies. Houses are cut up and living spaces are removed in order to rent out more bedrooms. Equipment is not fixed in due time and is not high quality. Even landlords that are "good" will aim to cut costs and also throw you under the bus when it suits them.
If landlords in the UK were better I wouldn't mind renting. But they're not which is a big problem.
Most people do not have good landlords and that's a problem. Rooms are not redecorated in between tenancies. Houses are cut up and living spaces are removed in order to rent out more bedrooms. Equipment is not fixed in due time and is not high quality. Even landlords that are "good" will aim to cut costs and also throw you under the bus when it suits them.
If landlords in the UK were better I wouldn't mind renting. But they're not which is a big problem.
Amateur landlords that buy to let creates is another plague on society. So many are attached to what was their old home and believe it's perfectly acceptable to just rock up unannounced and let themselves in to check things because it's their house not the renter scums. They think of the renter as little more than a child to barge in on.
Bitofthebubbly
VIP Member
I’m hating this trend of turning family homes into multiple flats. It’s unbelievably greedy and really doesn’t help the housing price/supply situation.
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heretoreaditall2019
VIP Member
It’s also the biggest middle class delusion going that it couldn’t happen to you. You, like the peasants you look down on, are also only an average of 3 pay cheques away from homelessness. Your jobs aren’t forever - there is no job security anymore and look at what happened at the start of the pandemic.
I’m guessing from what you’ve said you’re most likely a middle management level at most so not likely in a high demand burn out situation but for people with v high incomes (ARTP or entrepreneurs etc) burn out happens and it happens fast. Or a bad tax advisor fucked you over and suddenly your wife’s leaving you and taking 50% with her. The stories I hear are horrifying and why you’d have to be dumb to max yourself out at 4-5x, but it’s the only alternative the majority of the country have. But it means you’ve got a system where the avg FTB is in their mid 30s signing up to earn the same as their youthful peak for 20-30 years? Bleak.
I’m guessing from what you’ve said you’re most likely a middle management level at most so not likely in a high demand burn out situation but for people with v high incomes (ARTP or entrepreneurs etc) burn out happens and it happens fast. Or a bad tax advisor fucked you over and suddenly your wife’s leaving you and taking 50% with her. The stories I hear are horrifying and why you’d have to be dumb to max yourself out at 4-5x, but it’s the only alternative the majority of the country have. But it means you’ve got a system where the avg FTB is in their mid 30s signing up to earn the same as their youthful peak for 20-30 years? Bleak.
It's not like many other businesses. It relys on pricing people out of something essential and is exploitative by nature.
Very parasitic and provides next to no value to society. It's causing untold havoc for the whole of society with people feeling unable to put down roots and being seen as a failure for renting.
It's mainly people that were born at the right time to buy when house prices were affordable and they've now remortgaged to speculate on. They slap themselves on the back at what a great business person they are because they've benefited from the loose lending and printing that keeps causing asset bubbles.
"Most landlords are fantastic" evidence please? Your posts on this thread are interesting
. Most landlords are like most businesses and want to make the most money.
heretoreaditall2019
VIP Member
I’ve only done it a few times but if you set your radius to your postcode +0.5miles you can have a nose a few streets round, I’m shocked at the state of some houses some people are living in tbh. One house has a wall half knocked through between rooms so raw dusty bricks just jammin there - all the while there’s a beauty blogger setup in another room with stacks and stacks of multi drawer storage I assume for palettes etc and those huge circle lights?! Beloved you have brick dust in your home! Prioritise!
Bitofthebubbly
VIP Member
So when he was 19 he managed to save up a sizeable amount all by himself to either get a BTL mortgage or buy it outright by working part time in between studies? Aren’t btl mortgages a bit harder to get? What jobs was he doing to earn that much part time? Something doesn’t add up here. If it was that easy everyone would do it.
I love how these articles always have to throw in a little dig about how much they’ve ‘sacrificed’ compared to their mates who just fritter money away on booze and clothes. As if they are the only young person in the world to have saved up for a house and everyone else is just dumb and bringing it on themselves
There’s nothing worse than smug people who own multiple properties banging on about how easy it is to get on the property ladder. They are part of the problem.
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JoeBloggs
VIP Member
I don't necessarily have an issue with this, but this is because private care is exploitative and majorly over priced (£1,300 + a week!) and social care is so underfunded which I think is due to wasted spending not that the money isn't there.The next level of insanity/scam I’ve encountered is a woman in her 30s being signed over her nan’s house as they don’t want it to be used for potential care costs in the futureApparently the paperwork is only £1,500 - I find it obscene that families are being allowed to pass wealth down like this then ask the underfunded state to pick up the bill?!!
If you spunk all your cash, don't buy and never save you are cared for by the state, if you buy and save you aren't. Both could have paid the same in taxes but because you have been careful in your life you a forced to spend it when someone else doesn't have to do anything to prepare. I think when this lady 30 year old (same as me) we will be lucky if a pension or any social care is still available from the state by the time we are old. Why would you not want to help your kids/grandkids if you can.
heretoreaditall2019
VIP Member
Really don’t want to engage with the dumb Tory as so many people have written it so much better, but our economy is dependent upon exploitation of cheap labour. Pls I beg of you read something to get a bit more informed about the lay of the land for the majority of Britons. Wealth inequality is widening & class mobility now a myth.
I grew up poor as fuck in a post war council house, this is v gauche of me but our household income is v high yet we now live in exactly the same layout of house (not ex council). Our income to property value multiplier is only 1.2 but it’s the deposit that did us in - we were renting then Grenfell happened and we learnt our flat was a death trap so had to move earlier than planned. This is life, it’s not all stay at home in ur mum’s spare bedroom (my parents are dead lol x) and bootstrap ideology. And this is one of the most privileged “that’s life” situations that happens.
Moreover the next step up on the ladder for us isn’t a juice that’s worth the squeeze. London’s quality of property is fucked, I’ve spent another 2 deposit’s worth getting our house up to scratch since we moved in 2 years ago. All the first owner occupiers are dying now abs the state of the properties entering the market are abysmal, as has been pointed out lenders don’t loan for works so it’s incredibly hard for ppl on a normal or slightly above average, or even a “professional” salary to buy them unless they want to live in delapidated squalor.
I can’t imagine having such an incredibly narrow world view? Baby banks are popping up left right and centre and FSM and hungry kids has been the scandal of the year. Most people simply don’t have a disposable income, and there’s no changing that without changing the WHOLE system and making work pay properly.
I grew up poor as fuck in a post war council house, this is v gauche of me but our household income is v high yet we now live in exactly the same layout of house (not ex council). Our income to property value multiplier is only 1.2 but it’s the deposit that did us in - we were renting then Grenfell happened and we learnt our flat was a death trap so had to move earlier than planned. This is life, it’s not all stay at home in ur mum’s spare bedroom (my parents are dead lol x) and bootstrap ideology. And this is one of the most privileged “that’s life” situations that happens.
Moreover the next step up on the ladder for us isn’t a juice that’s worth the squeeze. London’s quality of property is fucked, I’ve spent another 2 deposit’s worth getting our house up to scratch since we moved in 2 years ago. All the first owner occupiers are dying now abs the state of the properties entering the market are abysmal, as has been pointed out lenders don’t loan for works so it’s incredibly hard for ppl on a normal or slightly above average, or even a “professional” salary to buy them unless they want to live in delapidated squalor.
I can’t imagine having such an incredibly narrow world view? Baby banks are popping up left right and centre and FSM and hungry kids has been the scandal of the year. Most people simply don’t have a disposable income, and there’s no changing that without changing the WHOLE system and making work pay properly.
I'll post it again on this thread, UK house prices Vs wages graph.
Low interest rates aren't helping, unless you want to help prices stay high. That suits financial institutions, the 1% and the huge amount of PM's who have got into buy to let. It doesn't help the normal person.
Low interest rates aren't helping, unless you want to help prices stay high. That suits financial institutions, the 1% and the huge amount of PM's who have got into buy to let. It doesn't help the normal person.
heretoreaditall2019
VIP Member
It’s that middle class exceptionalism, the idea that anyone that doesn’t like the system (that they’re struggling to get by in - having to live at home for years in your 20s to save for a flat? How can you defend that system?) must be a jealous urchin typing from a Dickensian work house. You can be comfortable and not agree with how the majority of this country are being forced to live by selfish vile big biz and a Tory government.It’s not just that the government can’t see further into the future. It’s also that they don’t care. They’re all benefitting hugely from the broken system, so why would they want it to end?
People “bragging” about having £400k houses by pulling themselves up by the bootstraps are entirely missing the point. It is a system designed to work for the rich and against the poor, at their expense (and don’t now get at me having a “chip on my shoulder” because my house is literally worth almost twice yours)
We all have a lot more in common with the poorest in society than the billionaire / landed classes, unless you’ve got a family office you shouldn’t be silly enough to hold these opinions.
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Lanavalentine
VIP Member
Sorry what…. Very few people would be able to afford 6 months rental up front! The housing market is ridiculous at the moment and it’s getting harder and harder for people to even rent let alone buy! One of my friends is looking for a place and said that for every house that the letting agents put up they’re getting 100+ enquiries. People are really desperate. I agree with references but rent up front just makes it even more unattainable for most. I’m on a good salary and have always paid my rent on time but even id struggle to come up with that! It’s bad enough with letting agency fees etc.
theweekend
Well-known member
Home renovation project two doors down to me has been ordered to stop by the council and fire brigade. Firstly the new owner (to be landlord) was using a bunch of cowboy builders that have damaged the houses on both sides and fucked the structure so badly it was deemed unsafe. The pavement in front is cordoned off with police tape
Secondly they were trying to turn a small 3 bedroom house into THREE FLATS which they were explicitly denied permission for and went ahead with anyway. 3 fucking flats. How greedy can you be
Secondly they were trying to turn a small 3 bedroom house into THREE FLATS which they were explicitly denied permission for and went ahead with anyway. 3 fucking flats. How greedy can you be