Gender Discussion #90

[MaineCoonMama]

I guess one or both of them could have been adopted or they could be step siblings

Ah, yes. I didn't think of that. It's a very strange case.

 

[usefullyuseless]

View attachment 3614915

This advert graced my facebook feed this morning. What a state. The trans themed tights, the fishnets...

'You're perfect just the way you are' seems to be at odds with life limiting surgeries and medication

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

I guess one or both of them could have been adopted or they could be step siblings

Babies born with 12 months of each other used to be called "Irish twins" at one time, but this is highly offensive.

I personally knew two women who had babies born close together. One 9 months, and the other 10 months apart. The 10-month one had twins in her second pregnancy. Her house was organised like a military campaign. She had so much to do it was the only way she could keep on top of it. (This was in the days of terry nappies! Plus, even if disposables had been readily available, the family couldn't have afforded them. Her husband works all hours just to pay the mortgage and feed them.) She said that she was lucky that they were "easy" babies and slept reasonably well, otherwise she wouldn't have coped. She was on automatic pilot most of the time anyway, she was so tired.

 

[Falkor]

Half siblings with the father as the common parent maybe?

I transcribed an interview with someone recently who had three born in the same year that weren't triplets - one at the start of the year, then she got pregnant with twins fairly soon after, became ill during the pregnancy and had to deliver them very early. Must have been an absolute nightmare.

 

[klarakluckbag]

I just showed this pic to my husband (married twice, has 2 daughters and 5 granddaughters, definitely knows what a woman is) and said "men or women", and he immediately said, "Well, the one on the left is a bloke"...

 

[FourSeasonSoupObsessive]

Hello again. Well isn't this interesting? Who would have thought that flaky people with flaky identity hobbies would change their minds or drop out or not get hired again?

'Alarming' fall in number of cultural organisations with trans or non-binary staff - Arts Professional

The number of cultural organisations within Arts Council England's (ACE's) National Portfolio that employ trans, non-binary or intersex staff has fallen,

www.artsprofessional.co.uk

For some reason I can’t get that website to open at all? does anyone have n archive please?

 

[Metropolis]

For some reason I can’t get that website to open at all? does anyone have n archive please?

Here you go

‘Alarming’ fall in number of cultural organisations with trans or non…

archived 20 Jun 2025 10:44:53 UTC

archive.ph

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

For some reason I can’t get that website to open at all? does anyone have n archive please?

Neither can I this morning. Can't get the homepage of the website either so it must be down. I found it on X, and it was about the methods used to report employees and board members who have trans and binary identities. Something about them not being reported to the precise number, but the information was colllected if they were present at all, and that the numbers are declining, which means there might be some orgs and boards that are entirely "cis". The horror! The number was much higher in 2022 or 2023. Apparently the decline is greater on boards, which is terrible as they now have no representation of trans and binary identities, which is so vitally important to the running of a company. They wonder if it is people desisting, or people not reporting their identities. I wonder if it's companies wising up to the fact that if an employee, freelancer, or board member makes you use the wrong pronouns when they are not even in the room, they will be a nightmare to deal with on all fronts, so they are quietly being dropped or ghosted.

@TheMiceInTheShed I'm not offended by the term "Irish twins" being Irish and knowing a few sets of them myself. Contraception was not available here till the 80s, unless you got a doctor to prescribe the pill for "menstrual irregularity" and confessed this sin once a week. Condoms were available in chemists, but you had to be brave to ask for them, and most men didn't care how many children their wives had to carry and deliver and rear. The Church was even against the rhythm method. So we probably have a lot more of them than most countries, although any younger ones would be down to "oops!" and not the Church.

 

[FourSeasonSoupObsessive]

Here you go

‘Alarming’ fall in number of cultural organisations with trans or non…

archived 20 Jun 2025 10:44:53 UTC

archive.ph

That article is so silly 🫣 Very entertaining though. I’m not sure they’ve got a very firm grasp of what numbers and statistical analysis are actually for & how they work. Eg, they comment that the fall off in the percentage of organisations reporting having trans/NB/whatever staff has fallen, but say this is “despite” the total number of organisations having increased. Deary me

I think there’s something interesting in the fact that it looked like the percentage of trustees with particular identities fell off a cliff over the period. I wonder if it turns out that if you recruit people to your board whose claim to be there is based on a particular “lived experience” they actually turn out to be bleeping useless at performing the role and they get yeeted? But yeah, I think we might be seeing the waning of the usefulness of adopting a particular identity and the opportunists are backing away, OR more and more people are having the experience that I’ve had in this environment which is the people who are solely driven by identitarian concerns are not people who create harmonious, productive workplaces (massive understatement).

This is a gem, too “Concerns have been raised that guidance setting out what toilet and changing spaces organisations should provide, could lead to trans, non-binary and intersex people feeling unable to work at or attend cultural events”. Unable to work, eh? Mm-hmm.

 

[Gomi goner]

I can't post a link to this without making my e-mail details public, so hopefully it isn't oo much to put in a post

Spoiler: Judgement Day A judicial spotlight falls on Australian gender clinics

Judgement Day

Spoiler: Judgement Day A judicial spotlight falls on Australian gender clinics

A judicial spotlight falls on Australian gender clinics

JENNY NABBEN JUN 20

​ View attachment 3614272

View attachment 3614273​ View attachment 3614274​ View attachment 3614275​ View attachment 3614276​ ​ READ IN APPView attachment 3614277​

View attachment 3614278​

In a landmark decision on April 4, 2005, Justice Andrew Strum of the Australian Family Court delivered a groundbreaking ruling against the Royal Children's Hospital’s (RCH) gender clinic and criticised its "affirmation " model (which includes social transition, puberty blockade, cross-sex hormones and sex reassignment surgeries).
Judge Strum’s ruling was highly critical of Dr. Michelle Telfer under whose leadership the RCH gender clinic has seen an explosion in the numbers of children attending – up from 18 children in 2012 to 1,290 by 2023 - an over 7,000% increase.
In Strum’s 130-page ruling, he said Dr. Telfer; “…cheapened the suffering of victims of Nazism when she suggested a landmark review (the UK’s Cass Review) which recommended limitations on medication for gender-dysphoric children formed part of a wave of transgender oppression.”
Background to the Case
Michelle Telfer was Director of RCH gender clinic from 2012 to 2022 and has been arguably the most influential figure in Australian gender medicine – she has:

Justice Andrew Strum described Telfer’s role as an ‘expert’ in the Re Devin case as akin to being the "proverbial judge, jury and executioner” while Telfer herself conceded under cross-examination that her opinion was essentially self-endorsement.
The God Complex
In the ABC’s Australian Story episode, Treating Trans Kids, Michelle Telfer tells her own origin story as a ‘pioneer’ of gender medicine. Telfer remembers when she met her first ‘trans child’ a 10-year-old girl who told her that every birthday she wished that she could “have the body of a boy.” Telfer said she wanted to be ‘part of making that wish into reality’ and it was an ‘amazing thing’ to get involved in.
In an interview for the Emerging Minds podcast in Nov 2021, Telfer makes the familiar argument that ‘trans’ children are ‘born in the wrong body’:
And for them, it’s not a decision, not a choice. What they’re doing is expressing who they are and what they need to have happen to give them a fulfilling, happy life…. and parents not supporting the young person to have interventions, what we often see are very fractured relationships within the family. And I think that’s probably the greatest shame of all that families break down because they don’t recognise how important that might be for that young person to fulfil what they need.
Telfer ascribes the high levels of mental illness in the trans community to “…negative experiences…the stigma…the discrimination…the social isolation… particularly family rejection that many trans people experience on a daily basis.”
Telfer promotes puberty blockers as fully reversible.
“Imagine you’re a young child assigned female at birth based on your physical characteristics, but you have a male gender identity. If you start to go through puberty and develop breasts, that’s a very distressing situation to be in. We can intervene to prevent this by using puberty blockers that are entirely reversible, you can stay on them for three or four years and if you stop…the natural hormones will just recommence, and your body will change accordingly.”
Telfer is speaking directly to parents when she says children who transition do “astonishingly well’ and get ‘top marks in the VCE and scholarships to university”. While those whose parents refuse medicalisation experience, “very high rates of depression, anxiety, self-harm, and some attempt suicide, because for those young people, there really isn’t a safe space for them”.
The Chickens Come Home to Roost
The Cass Review, commissioned by NHS England in 2020 and led by Dr. Hilary Cass, investigated gender services for children and young people and focused on the evidence base for gender medicine. The University of York conducted seven systematic reviews and analysed 237 papers involving 113,269 children across 18 countries and found the evidence base for medicalisation weak with significant gaps in long-term outcome data.
The Cass Review resulted in the UK government banning the use of puberty blockers and the NHS taking a much more cautious approach for prescribing cross-sex hormones. Many European countries including Denmark, Holland, Sweden, Finland and the US have conducted reviews and recommend a ‘watchful waiting’ model that focuses on psychological and social support and a full assessment of a child’s comorbidities including autism, trauma family issues, mental health issues and sexual use. Australia is one of the few countries that continues to defend and promote the ‘affirmation model.’
Australian Gender Medicine under the spotlight
The Cass Review evaluated the Standards of Care and guidelines across 10 countries and scored the Australian Standards a mere 18 out of 100 for methodological rigour. The Review also highlighted significant deficiencies in the development of the Standards and reported that claims about improved mental health outcomes for medicalisation were not substantiated by the evidence.
Michelle Telfer, along with Professor Ada Cheung, Dr Portia Predny and Dr Fiona Bisshop criticised the Cass Review and said it was ‘not relevant’ while maintaining that hormones are ‘safe’, ‘effective’ and ‘reversible’ (despite providing any evidence to the contrary).
The Unmasking of Telfer
The Re Devin case in the Family Court, presided over by Judge Strum involved a custody dispute between the parents of a 12-year-old boy, referred to as Devin. Michelle Telfer advocated for the mother who wanted to commence puberty blockers for her son, while the father argued his son was gender-exploratory, not gender dysphoric and was concerned that medicalization was potentially harmful.
In his 130-page judgement Justice Strum sharply criticized Telfer for providing “misleading” testimony and found her evidence biased, overly ideological and dismissive of the UK’s Cass Review. Telfer’s responses were: “…misleading or omitted findings and material that detracted from (her) opinion contrary to the obligations as an expert witness. Some of the many examples proffered are concerning.”
The court awarded custody to the father with Judge Stum stating the father could support his son through open conversations and professional psychological support rather than “one-directional gender affirming treatment.”
The Judge originally prevented the media from identifying both Telfer and the Royal Children’s Hospital, instead referring to them as “Professor L” and “the hospital” respectively.
But following the initial judgement, The Australian newspaper petitioned the Judge to lift the suppression order on the grounds of the significant public interest and Telfer’s pivotal role in gender medicine. Strum agreed and The Australian ran this front-page story:

View attachment 3614279​

Australian Media in the Dock
The ABC consistently portrays Telfer as a compassionate advocate for ‘trans youth’ and has commissioned various profiles of her work at the clinic:
Australian Story: A Balancing Act (May 24, 2021) The episode profiled Telfer as a world leader in gender medicine guiding hundreds of children and youth through transition.
The Year that Made Me: Dr. Michelle Telfer (March 13, 2022): This ABC radio segment profiled Telfer’s work positively as a dedicated professional navigating ‘cultural’ controversies and her reaction to ‘hostile’ media coverage.
The Conversation Hour: Yolanda and Kai’s Story (April 1, 2016): Telfer co-hosted this ABC radio segment where she shared her insights about transgender family experiences.
The Australian Newspaper has maintained a more critical eye and published 45 articles and opinion pieces between August 2019 and June 2020.
Telfer criticized The Australian’s coverage saying it contained “false, inaccurate, unfair, and unbalanced information,” that portrayed her as harming children and causing her ‘significant distress’ for which she had to seek the support of a psychiatrist.
Telfer brought a 42-page complaint regarding The Australian’s coverage to The Australian Press Council (APC) in 2020. The APC ruled the newspaper had breached its Standards of Practice. The newspaper defended its reporting and argued it was in the public interest to scrutinize gender medicine, a topic with legal, ethical and health consequences for vulnerable children and youth.
The journalist Bernard Lane, who wrote many of the articles said the APC ruling favoured Telfer’s “hurt feelings” over legitimate journalistic inquiry and stifled a debate on a contentious issue.
Following the recent Strum ruling, the RCH reiterated its support for Telfer citing her advocacy for legal reforms and stating that her work aligns with the Australian SOC and TGTGDC which she co-authored.
In other words, Telfer is above reproach because she’s following the SOC she wrote and puberty blockers are safe because she says they are - despite the Cass Review, the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (DHHS) review, the many European reviews and Judge Strum’s ruling.
Forward to the Future
When the movie is made of the short history of Australian gender medicine, Michelle Telfer will be the central figure - an ex-Olympic gymnast who traded the parallel bars to become Australia's pioneering gender doctor. Far from a celebration, it will be a cautionary tale about humanity's failure to learn from medical scandals of the past - lobotomies, electric shock treatment, the false memory syndrome and thalidomide, to name just a few.
The heroes of this film will be the parents like Devin's father, who refused to be silenced despite enormous pressure and fought through the courts to protect their children from experimental treatments. They will be the international researchers like Dr. Hilary Cass who conducted rigorous systematic reviews and had the courage to follow the evidence wherever it led. They will be the European clinicians who recognized the weak evidence base and shifted toward more cautious, evidence-based approaches. They will be the journalists like Bernard Lane who persisted in asking difficult questions despite institutional backlash and groundless accusations of causing harm. And they will be Justice Andrew Strum and other judges who demanded actual evidence rather than ideological assertions in their courtrooms.
Telfer will not be among the heroes.

Very interesting. Thank you for posting.
Dr Telfer comes across as extremely self righteous and not above emotional blackmail it seems...
How terrible for parents of those children to hear words like that.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

Neither can I this morning. Can't get the homepage of the website either so it must be down. I found it on X, and it was about the methods used to report employees and board members who have trans and binary identities. Something about them not being reported to the precise number, but the information was colllected if they were present at all, and that the numbers are declining, which means there might be some orgs and boards that are entirely "cis". The horror! The number was much higher in 2022 or 2023. Apparently the decline is greater on boards, which is terrible as they now have no representation of trans and binary identities, which is so vitally important to the running of a company. They wonder if it is people desisting, or people not reporting their identities. I wonder if it's companies wising up to the fact that if an employee, freelancer, or board member makes you use the wrong pronouns when they are not even in the room, they will be a nightmare to deal with on all fronts, so they are quietly being dropped or ghosted.

@TheMiceInTheShed I'm not offended by the term "Irish twins" being Irish and knowing a few sets of them myself. Contraception was not available here till the 80s, unless you got a doctor to prescribe the pill for "menstrual irregularity" and confessed this sin once a week. Condoms were available in chemists, but you had to be brave to ask for them, and most men didn't care how many children their wives had to carry and deliver and rear. The Church was even against the rhythm method. So we probably have a lot more of them than most countries, although any younger ones would be down to "oops!" and not the Church.

BIB - Thank you for this comment. The people I know who claim it's racist are not Irish. The one Irish person I used to work with wasn't bothered by the expression at all.

I just didn't want to take the risk of somebody going off on one this morning because of something I said.

 

[Weebles Wobble]

Hmm...I'm sure there used to be another word that we used...



Oh yes - WOMAN.

 

[FourSeasonSoupObsessive]

Neither can I this morning. Can't get the homepage of the website either so it must be down. I found it on X, and it was about the methods used to report employees and board members who have trans and binary identities. Something about them not being reported to the precise number, but the information was colllected if they were present at all, and that the numbers are declining, which means there might be some orgs and boards that are entirely "cis". The horror! The number was much higher in 2022 or 2023. Apparently the decline is greater on boards, which is terrible as they now have no representation of trans and binary identities, which is so vitally important to the running of a company. They wonder if it is people desisting, or people not reporting their identities. I wonder if it's companies wising up to the fact that if an employee, freelancer, or board member makes you use the wrong pronouns when they are not even in the room, they will be a nightmare to deal with on all fronts, so they are quietly being dropped or ghosted.

@TheMiceInTheShed I'm not offended by the term "Irish twins" being Irish and knowing a few sets of them myself. Contraception was not available here till the 80s, unless you got a doctor to prescribe the pill for "menstrual irregularity" and confessed this sin once a week. Condoms were available in chemists, but you had to be brave to ask for them, and most men didn't care how many children their wives had to carry and deliver and rear. The Church was even against the rhythm method. So we probably have a lot more of them than most countries, although any younger ones would be down to "oops!" and not the Church.

for some reason, your reply here wasn’t visible when I posed mine above, but I see we’ve very much spotted a similar theme in the article

For trustees with identities, I’m very much thinking here of the board of Mermaids which turned out to have some very unsavoury characters indeed on it. Wonder if that experience has been more common than we know? Board positions are serious roles with serious responsibilities and should be viewed as such, not as platforms for peoples pet political projects, or barometers of some notion of diversity tangentially related to the organisation’s purpose.

 

[Miss Ophelia]

reading the comment in DM re Steps block and his pride book for children (why dones a child need this book) this comment did make me laugh out loud. Another who used women (surrogate) and brought JK into it as far as I am aware JK said love who you love.

The Lettuce Bacon and Tomato Gang seem to spend their entire lives attacking everybody else so they shouldn’t be surprised when they get some back. 🤍

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

Why are the Arts Council asking organisations to collect data on staff who have DSDs? They have no right to know or ask this information

 

[Flibbertigibbet]

for some reason, your reply here wasn’t visible when I posed mine above, but I see we’ve very much spotted a similar theme in the article

For trustees with identities, I’m very much thinking here of the board of Mermaids which turned out to have some very unsavoury characters indeed on it. Wonder if that experience has been more common than we know? Board positions are serious roles with serious responsibilities and should be viewed as such, not as platforms for peoples pet political projects, or barometers of some notion of diversity tangentially related to the organisation’s purpose.

And then you have Pride organisations, who are falling apart at the seams because they added the T+ parasites and revelled in multinational corporate sponsorship that is now diminishing, turning the whole thing into a fetishfest for straight tourists, and getting way too aggressive with the clout they thought they had. Look at this mess in our second city.

Cork Pride festival's only full-time employee gets injunction to lift suspension from work | BreakingNews

Kery Mullaly claims he was suspended on September 13th last year without any prior notice of eight misconduct allegations against him

www.breakingnews.ie

 

[Pandax]

Tried to read the wiki, got very confused, commenting in the hopes that one day I may be able to read this thread, be educated properly & add to the discussion

 

[petitspois]

A clip of Philippa Perry has popped up being interviewed by Rylan about love. I used to find her quite interesting but the fact that she’s supporting Grayson Perry to live out his AGP fetish repulses me.

 

[Scotch Mist]

Ugh H from Steps is attacking JK Rowling now and claiming his community is in danger.
The top rated comment in the Daily Mail is good though

"I can rest at night now I know what some washed up pop star from yesteryear had spoken on this subject. But seriously, ‘H’, I think JKR is more concerned with the erosion of women’s rights and men in women’s hospital wards, prisons, sports, changing rooms, toilets, grape crisis centres…than getting likes for being kind on social media. You’re a tragedy, mate. Now off you go in 5,6,7,8…"

 

[MaineCoonMama]

Tried to read the wiki, got very confused, commenting in the hopes that one day I may be able to read this thread, be educated properly & add to the discussion

There are so many knowledgeable women on this thread who would be happy to answer any questions you have or point you in the direction of books or articles, even YouTube channels if you'd like more information.