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minimaz

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Interview in the DM with one of the Darlington nurses. Makes me so angry that their management clearly prioritised a fetishist who wanted to sexually abuse women changing. The police should be investigating this as voyeurism and flashing


"She tells me that last summer, after legal papers had been served and after The Mail on Sunday had broken the story of the Darlington nurses, Karen needed an urgent hysterectomy, after years of problems with endometriosis. It was to be carried out at the Darlington Memorial – where everyone involved worked – but just a few weeks before the procedure she discovered, to her horror, that Rose was scheduled to be on duty in the operating theatre on that day, and would be part of the surgical team.

‘It was a gynaecological procedure, and his role would have been down at that end, passing the consultant the tools,’ she says, incredulous. She immediately pointed out the obvious (as she thought) issue here. ‘I told them that because there was a legal dispute under way, involving Rose, it was a conflict of interest, and entirely inappropriate that he should be involved in my surgery, especially intimate surgery like that.

‘Separately, there was the issue of my childhood abuse. I made it clear that I wanted as few men in that room as possible. I was told, “Well, Rose is a woman so Rose has a right to be there”.

‘The theatre manager also said, “How would Rose feel if she was asked not to come to theatre?”.’

Karen was dumbstruck. ‘I said, “Frankly, and sorry to be blunt, but I don’t care how Rose feels”. It made no sense. Shifts are changed all the time. They didn’t even have to tell Rose a reason, if they were worried about that.’

Karen escalated her complaint, putting her concerns in writing. ‘And I got an email back saying that they could not accommodate my request [for Rose to be replaced]. They said they would cancel the operation, and I could go elsewhere. I couldn’t believe it. I needed that operation, and I’d been with my consultant for years. After everything, I felt I was being punished. I said, “I am asking this as a patient”, but they didn’t care.’"
 
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MaineCoonMama

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Not sadfishing, I'm in hospital atm (just an overnight stay, nothing serious) and I was pleased and surprised that I've had an all-female team caring for me. I had an ECG and chest X-ray, both of which involve either touching breasts/chest or being braless.
The comfort of having just women around while in a vulnerable state just can't be explained to someone who's never been in that position before.
If there were a man on my ward I'd be reluctant to go to the toilet wearing just a hospital gown and a pair of undies.
They bleat about dignity for themselves (while wearing leggings showing the outline of their genitals) yet think it's fine to make women expose themselves while we're not at full capacity.
I'll catch Im later as I'm low on battery and hanging out to get home. 💜
 
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TheMiceInTheShed

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Interview in the DM with one of the Darlington nurses. Makes me so angry that their management clearly prioritised a fetishist who wanted to sexually abuse women changing. The police should be investigating this as voyeurism and flashing


"She tells me that last summer, after legal papers had been served and after The Mail on Sunday had broken the story of the Darlington nurses, Karen needed an urgent hysterectomy, after years of problems with endometriosis. It was to be carried out at the Darlington Memorial – where everyone involved worked – but just a few weeks before the procedure she discovered, to her horror, that Rose was scheduled to be on duty in the operating theatre on that day, and would be part of the surgical team.

‘It was a gynaecological procedure, and his role would have been down at that end, passing the consultant the tools,’ she says, incredulous. She immediately pointed out the obvious (as she thought) issue here. ‘I told them that because there was a legal dispute under way, involving Rose, it was a conflict of interest, and entirely inappropriate that he should be involved in my surgery, especially intimate surgery like that.

‘Separately, there was the issue of my childhood abuse. I made it clear that I wanted as few men in that room as possible. I was told, “Well, Rose is a woman so Rose has a right to be there”.

‘The theatre manager also said, “How would Rose feel if she was asked not to come to theatre?”.’

Karen was dumbstruck. ‘I said, “Frankly, and sorry to be blunt, but I don’t care how Rose feels”. It made no sense. Shifts are changed all the time. They didn’t even have to tell Rose a reason, if they were worried about that.’

Karen escalated her complaint, putting her concerns in writing. ‘And I got an email back saying that they could not accommodate my request [for Rose to be replaced]. They said they would cancel the operation, and I could go elsewhere. I couldn’t believe it. I needed that operation, and I’d been with my consultant for years. After everything, I felt I was being punished. I said, “I am asking this as a patient”, but they didn’t care.’"
When this case comes comes to court, and Darlington loses (as they will!) I hope that Karen is awarded astronomical damages. And I would like to see a few people lose their jobs.

In the light of the recent SC ruling, I can't believe that Darlington is continuing to dig their heels in over this - especially in a situation like this. TBH, even if it were just two same-sex individuals who were at loggerheads, unless one had a skill which was irreplaceable, I would think that the hospital wouldn't schedule one to assist in an operation on the other.

IMO Darlington have done this intentionally. This has to be deliberate. This is a way of punishing Karen for her temerity in insisting on her rights to dignity and privacy. Whoever scheduled the surgical team needs to be disciplined for this, and so does anyone who refuses to swap the staff over.

"Rose" must also know that he is scheduled to be on Karen's op. If he had an ounce of decency he would ask to change his shift. But he won't because power and control is what this is all about.

Surely this is putting a patient at risk? Since when has the NHS been about staff validation with patients just there as accessories?

Are the nurses suing Roseas an individual, or just the Trust?

ETA to add a bit of rant. This has incensed me beyond all measure! :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
 
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Dinate

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David Tennant also said this in that interview:

'These debates – and it’s not even a debate, it’s a small clutch of people shouting very loudly, amplified by certain elements of the press – are not reflective of what most people feel. Things become ludicrously disproportionate, and end up being unnecessarily cruel. That’s what the trans debate seems to have become. Most people don’t give a shit. I genuinely believe most people just want to let people be themselves.'

Again, he doesn't see the irony in the first sentence: yes, regarding trans ideology, it is a small clutch of people shouting very loudly and amplified by much of the press, And indeed, it is not reflective of what the majority of people think.

And he's wrong: most people do give a shit but have been too scared to vocalise their thoughts and feelings because of the 'no debate' attitude around trans issues prescribed by Stonewall.

And yes, most people are happy to let people be themselves so long as this doesn't impact their rights and they aren't forced to act as if they belief that the feelings of these people are more important than reality.

It's amazing how self-assured this man is with absolutely no insight into the irony and contradiction of what he says and believes. His inability to see inherent conflict between trans ideology and women's rights speaks volumes.
 
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DoraMaar

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Not to defend him exactly, but I have a feeling from reading this, that he has no real understanding of what the debate is about. So he is fudging it and avoiding it by saying its nuanced.

It's an Emperors New clothes kind of thing, that if people don't understand, they don't necessarily see the issues, so they tend to just go along with the majority opinion, rather than actually bothering to find out what its all about! When in reality its so obvious, that biology is more important than anything else, that its hard to see how they can be so confused!

Sadly I think that the majority of people in the UK, dont really understand the issues around being trans, and don't understand the debate. So to them its nuanced, because they haven't bothered to find out what its all about!
This sums him up ...

1747389768562.png
 
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Shinythings

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I still don't understand why this all keeps coming down to bloody toilets. Firstly, trans people can use the gender neutral toilets that many places have now because of the ideology or that already had them anyway. People acting like they are going to be forced to wet themselves in public.

Why are the more important issues of ensuring that biological men are not taking up places on waiting lists for medical procedures and tests that only impact biological women (or wouldn't be routinely done for biological men - breast cancer screening etc). Or stopping women being injured horrifically because they are competing against transwomen in sport. Or funding being taken from them because a transwomen takes their place that they otherwise would have got.

Toilets are not the issue, health, equality and safety are the issue and I just think it's interesting that the transpeople who are so against the SC ruling can only bang on about toilets.
 
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Mismatched Pegs

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thought that JKR was problematic. And in some ways I do think she speaks harshly of transpeople
Well she tried being nice and they called her a bitch and a cunt, sent her death threats and tried to have her cancelled. I think she's got every right to speak harshly of transpeople. She stayed civil a lot longer than I would've done. How much would you put up with before you changed your tone?
 
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emmer_moans

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I served a student at work the other day who had a query. Clearly a small, timid female around 19, speaking meekly as she asked the question. Short cropped hair styled like Justin Bieber in his teen heyday, wearing a men's cut denim jacket, and military boots. I asked her name, and it was a male nickname version of what I suspect is a female name. I brought up their record on my computer to check the things they asked me to check about their course. 'Gender' listed as 'male', preferred name field was the male-nickname version of what I suspected was their real name. Scrolled down... yep, in the legal name field (which they have to have), the name was the female form. Obviously I am not a dick, so I assisted her with her query and called her by her preferred name (no pronouns though obviously), and she went happily on her way. But there was no mistaking that despite the styled hair and the outfit, that person was a female. And I know you can't judge someone's life story from just one look, but if I had to guess, I'd say, the unpopular, overlooked kid at school, found solace in pretending they are male. And their age means they would have been around 14 at the start of the pandemic, just around the time when the TRA bollox was UNAVOIDABLE and RELENTLESS online, when teens were inside all day, on tiktok etc.

I've said before, I work at a uni. There are currently dozens of students pretending to be the other sex, or 'neither'. Also, saw one lanky male student walking around in a hot pink mini dress with black tights and boots and a bad attempt at wearing long hair. Oh, and the member of staff that in his late 40s AGP'd himself despite having teen kids, he was walking around proudly wearing florals and his long hair in a scrunchie. I know clothes don't have to be gendered per se, but it's the delusion that these people want you to believe they ARE actually the opposite sex that bothers me.

The TIMs stress me out and scare me, but as a woman, the TIFs make me feel really sad for them because they look so pathetic. And I don't say that to be mean. It's like in their eyes you can see they know they don't pass, they know it's a lie, but they are somehow sheltering under the delusion.

Oh, and anecdotally, I've been working at this place for a few years, and am friends with some colleagues in other teams who have also been there years... every year they used to always get a predictable and consistent % of mental health referrals/crises from students, especially around exam time. The past two years, it has skyrocketed and the admin teams and academics are struggling to cope because when it comes to the programme boards after exams, they have to look at all the mitigating circumstances appeals, and there's so many across the uni now. It's like some personal resilience has gone. Uni is a precarious time for most people, emotionally, but we're seeing an uptick in people who can't even cope with turning up to lectures or reply to emails, and they have fits when asked to submit stuff by deadlines. Our future workforce is effed already before they even come out of the starting blocks. And modules are constantly revised to make assessments more 'accessible' yet come resit time, the exams team are struggling to squeeze in all the additional resitters.

There are of course a large number of students who are just as resilient and clever and conscientious as they have ever been, so there is hope, but there is definitely a trend of some very mentally or emotional unwell young adults who are going to really struggle through their 20s.

I am mid 30s and to see the difference, it's alarming.
 
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Notworthy

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The below from the Leeds Councillor is always my argument.
Nobody can identify out of the reality of a disability, they can learn to live with it, adjust so that it lessens the impact on their life, they could also pretend they weren't disabled but at some point every single day the reality of their disability would make itself known.

It is absurd, it is dangerous and millions of women across the country are saying we have had enough. You cannot identify into an oppressed class because you cannot identify out of an oppressed class. And women are uniquely oppressed across the planet: reproductive health and autonomy, Female Genital Mutilation, violence, rape, child marriage, no right to vote, death in childbirth, post-natal illness, denied access to education, lower wages, chemical contraception, sex trafficking, surrogacy, pornography, prostitution and objectification.

Having watched some videos of College age Girls trying to argue for TiM's right to be called Women, they are attempting to identify out of their stupidity and failing.
 
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Jelly Bean

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Men in women's toilets reminds me of something that happened to me in my old workplace years ago. It didn't involve a transperson.
I was relatively new and went in the ladies toilet - a small space with 2 cubicles. Anyway a male cleaner was in there - I assumed he'd leave when I came in but he didn't but hovered. Anyway I didn't want to make a thing of it 🤦‍♀️ so had a wee then washed my hands when I felt his hand on my bum. I froze then left and told my line manager. She explained that the cleaner was deaf and that deaf people can be very tactile and that is how they communicated. With a lot of 'are you sure that's what happened?'. Also insinuating I was being discriminatory.
Anyway I left it as I was young and new, but warned other women about him. To cut a long story short in the end he was fired. Not for his numerous reported assaults on women staff which came out afterwards - but for the one time he assaulted a male. Then it was taken seriously. Even my line manager had the gall to mention in the office 'oh wasn't it dreadful what happened to poor X (name of man assaulted)'. I reminded her I'd reported to her ages ago what he was like and what a shame it wasn't taken seriously then. I even rammed home to her if it had been then maybe less women would have been assaulted.
She didn't say anything but went red and scuttled off to her office.
I wish I'd been stronger and braver and less embarrassed and had pursued it at the time as I knew it was wrong him being in the toilets in the first place.
 
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I still don't understand why this all keeps coming down to bloody toilets.
It’s because a plaintive ‘we just want to pee’ sounds like a reasonable request, whereas ‘we just want to be in rooms where women are undressing, and to punch them in boxing rings, and to intimidate survivors of abuse in refuges’ are more difficult to argue for 🤷‍♀️
 
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LittleMissOnions

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Yes, and the MASSIVE costs to the NHS of these cosmetic "gender affirming"procedures - which take a healthy body and change it. Why should this be on the NHS? (Especially as TRAs argue 'it's not an illness'). So why need vaginoplasty, tracheal shave, breast implants, HRT? Even laser hair removal is done on the NHS if it's for men who want to look like women!

And the cost of having to use private rooms unnecessarily in hospital because men refuse to be on men's wards - because they're 'special'.

FFS (x100)
The whole NHS providing them with life long HRT pisses me off.

If anyone here over the last few years has gone to their GP as a menopausal woman looking for HRT I am willing to bet that they are offered anti depressants as a first course of treatment (cos they are cheaper) and then if you are lucky enough to be prescribed stand alone oestrogen the chances are your local chemist will have run out of supplies and you find yourself chopping and changing makes. And finally when it comes to your annual review you have to justify why you shouldn’t be taken off it.

Meanwhile if you are male and fancy growing yourself a pair of tits, you can have it for life and you become the priority
 
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Tea_and_Biscuits

Well-known member
Interview in the DM with one of the Darlington nurses. Makes me so angry that their management clearly prioritised a fetishist who wanted to sexually abuse women changing. The police should be investigating this as voyeurism and flashing


"She tells me that last summer, after legal papers had been served and after The Mail on Sunday had broken the story of the Darlington nurses, Karen needed an urgent hysterectomy, after years of problems with endometriosis. It was to be carried out at the Darlington Memorial – where everyone involved worked – but just a few weeks before the procedure she discovered, to her horror, that Rose was scheduled to be on duty in the operating theatre on that day, and would be part of the surgical team.

‘It was a gynaecological procedure, and his role would have been down at that end, passing the consultant the tools,’ she says, incredulous. She immediately pointed out the obvious (as she thought) issue here. ‘I told them that because there was a legal dispute under way, involving Rose, it was a conflict of interest, and entirely inappropriate that he should be involved in my surgery, especially intimate surgery like that.

‘Separately, there was the issue of my childhood abuse. I made it clear that I wanted as few men in that room as possible. I was told, “Well, Rose is a woman so Rose has a right to be there”.

‘The theatre manager also said, “How would Rose feel if she was asked not to come to theatre?”.’

Karen was dumbstruck. ‘I said, “Frankly, and sorry to be blunt, but I don’t care how Rose feels”. It made no sense. Shifts are changed all the time. They didn’t even have to tell Rose a reason, if they were worried about that.’

Karen escalated her complaint, putting her concerns in writing. ‘And I got an email back saying that they could not accommodate my request [for Rose to be replaced]. They said they would cancel the operation, and I could go elsewhere. I couldn’t believe it. I needed that operation, and I’d been with my consultant for years. After everything, I felt I was being punished. I said, “I am asking this as a patient”, but they didn’t care.’"
This is absolutely appalling. No one with any sense of compassion would insist that her operation would go ahead with this member of staff on the ops rota.
Gynae procedures are stressful enough but this is putting the patient under considerably more stress and potentially trauma, due to her past abuse. It's the worse form of bullying. I'm so angry on her behalf.


Unfortunately female patients' concerns aren't always listened to. Hysteroscopies, where a small camera is passed through the cervix to observe the uterus, are usually done without any pain relief. Apparently it's because of some terrible research that claimed the cervix doesn't have any nerve endings!!!
I've had two and all I was offered was paracetamol - it's the most pain I've ever experienced. It's barbaric. Staff made me feel bad if you don't have it done there and then as 'it will be a long wait'. The third time I needed one I flat out refused unless I had it under GA or with an epidural. I had to wait 18 months for an appointment but in the end my consultant felt I no longer needed it to be done as my symptoms had cleared up.
 
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klarakluckbag

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Omg what an utterly ridiculous straw man/person argument he introduces. 'So if transwomen can't use women's toilets what about a mother taking her small boys in there? Under this new ruling they have to use the men's toilets'. O.m.g 🤦‍♀️
Embarrassing.
My son was a "small boy", aged around 6 or 7 when he refused to come into the ladies toilets with me at the cinema. He made a huge fuss because he didn't want to use a female toilet, he was embarrassed at having to use a cubicle with his mum and with other women there. I had to pace outside the bloody men's for what seemed like ages before he came strutting out, all Jack the Lad, like the big boys. I'd have happily used the men's toilet if it meant I could keep an eye on him but I firmly believe that he would have completely disowned me if I'd followed him in there!
It struck me at the time at how deeply ingrained the toilet taboo is. I can't think of a single man or boy in my life who would be comfortable invading a female space, be it a toilet, changing-room, or a female sports team. The men that do, are fetishists, predators and perverts. And that includes Robin "Moira" White 🤬
 
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FlowerOfTheEast

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Aye the Pope's changed his name and is wearing a robe but he's not pretending to be a woman now, is he? Christ they're thick.
 
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Nurseali

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I get increasingly mad at medical literature being fucked about with.

Don't exclude the 1.58% of transgender men who give birth whatever you do.
Even if it may exclude and confuse women whose first language isn't English, women with learning difficulties.Women in general.

Please let's think of the "men" , not the 99% of women giving birth. ( Edited to add 100% of women giving birth as only fucking women can ) 😡😡
 
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