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Dinate

VIP Member
It shouldn’t be any issue given the topic: “can a man be a woman?” “can a human change sex?” because any sane person with a working mind would automatically think: “No”. But there is one side politically that currently generally embraces the idea that this can be true (or at the very least, shouldn’t be questioned) and one side that currently generally does not. And everyone knows which one is which.
I go to a Current Affairs class at U3A (an organisation that I heartily recommend for any of you who no longer work or work part time. There are a huge range of different courses and classes depending on where you live. It's a great way to meet new people and get out of the house where people are at an age where it is harder to meet people). Anyway, last week I brought up the 'What Is a Woman?' case, and someone said that it's a pity that the trans issue has become so political. I said that it really isn't a political issue even though most people in thrall to the trans ideology are left-leaning or so-called progressives. I said it is essentially a matter of science, specifically biology.

If, like me, you know/believe that sex is binary and immutable, then it follows as a consequence that trans women in particular, have no place in women's safe spaces and sports on the grounds of safety. privacy and dignity and fairness in relation to sport. I said that if, however you believe that a person can change sex on the strength of their feelings, then you have a different position to mine. I added that I think that the vast majority of people who do support trans rights, don't genuinely believe that men can become women and vice versa simply by virtue of their feelings, but for whatever reason, they believe that men's feelings in particular should override those of girls and women.

One man suggested that the whole issue was overblown and asked what was the problem with mixed public toilets as you can lock the cubicle door for privacy. I must confess, that I was on my best behaviour throughout and used a lot of 'with respect' type sentences (we all know what that means :D). I said that all societies recognise the need for separate men and women's toilets for the safety of women; protecting them from voyeurism and for our general privacy and dignity as women's toilet needs are different to those of men, and our privacy and dignity needs require more than just a lock on the toilet cubicle itself.

I had one ally in a woman who brought up the Darlington nurses and a man who talked about the travesty at the Tavistock and the CASS report. With regard to the Darlington nurses, I said that this was a typical example of a man's feelings trumping women's rights and feelings. I said that 'Rose' now feels that he is a woman despite no visual changes and the fact that he is trying to get his partner pregnant. So 'Rose', as a woman, no longer wishes to change in the gaze of men in order to protect his dignity as a woman. However, the result of this is that the biological women now have their privacy and dignity ignored and are being forced to change in the gaze of a biological man.

The group was shocked to understand that a person can get a passport and then a driving licence in their chosen gender without a GRC. I had used the example of the man called Stephen who talked about gender neutral toilets, and said that he if came to the group next week and said that he was now Stephanie all he needed to do was to change his name by deed poll and then he could get two people to confirm that he was indeed Stephanie and bob's your uncle (or aunt perhaps:D). Someone was horrifed and asked, 'What, even with his beard?'. I said, yes, that's the consequence of saying that people can change sex by just saying so.

Another man talked about the whole spectrum of sex, hormones, in the world of all animals including humans, and suggested that we need to find a way to accommodate them.....My patience was wearing thin by now, so I said pretty curtly, that 'feeling like a woman' is a meaningless phrase. What does a woman feel like? It's a concept based wholly on stereotypes. I said, if all these people who he says have a huge spectrum of hormones or feelings die, their skeletons will in 100 years be quite clear as to whether or not they were male or female. There is no middle ground.

By the end of the discussion, between me and the other two members, I think we made a lot of people wake up and see just how pernicious this trans ideology is. Lads, I think you'all would have been proud of me defending our cause 😂 .
 
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Sundaytwelve

Active member
Im new to the thread and i am of a generation where if i voiced my opinions out loud i would be labelled everything under the sun and shunned. But, i’m really sick of it. The further we try and create an inclusive space for trans / non binary, the less inclusive the space is for biological women. Our rights, our experiences, our safe spaces, our very identity as biological women is being intercepted by the ‘trans’ agenda. I don’t see men having to compromise any of their things for the trans movement. Just women, because we’re maternal, understanding, we get how it feels to be unsafe, so its totally okay to infiltrate our space.

No, i dont feel comfortable sharing a changing room with someone who is ‘trans’ yet has not had any surgeries, i would literally feel the same if i was to be plonked in a mens changing room. Its unfair. While men may feel uncomfortable and rightly so over a trans man entering a male space, they’re not a threat.

‘pregnant people’, ‘people who menstruate’, all these stupid fucking phrases just erase us. Its shameful and i’m beyond sick of having to deal with it because of acceptance. Its not even that i am against transgender, i literally don’t care, its that once again women are being pushed into a corner and told whats right.
 
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moldwarp

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YES thank God someone in the mainstream is posting about this. I've posted about this on numerous platforms because it's really serious.

English is technically my second language but I'm fully fluent because I came here as a young child. This is NOT the case for other women in my family especially the older generation, their English is good enough to partake in British society and to work full time (before they retired) but it's NOT the same fluency that a native born middle class graduate would have. So they understand words like woman, womb, pregnancy, cancer , they know what a smear test is. They would NOT understand terms like 'birthing person' or 'cervix haver' because you need a decent level of fluency and the privilege of a middle class education to understand what these circumlocutions are actually getting at.

If my aunt say, saw a poster in her GP surgery reminding women to get a smear test, she'd understand. If she saw a poster advising cervix havers to get a cervical smear, she wouldn't. And so that's one woman who misses a smear test.

There are 7 million wokring immigrants in Britain. That's 1 in 5 working people, who probably don't have English as a first language. They're being excluded from important preventative healthcare, and worse, from important gynaecological and obstetric care.

It is racist, classist and sexist. I'm amazed that ANY SO-CALLED PROGRESSIVE thinks this is OK.
 
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Dinate

VIP Member
Sorry, this is the rest of my post: I posted the first bit by accident and then ran out of time to edit:


So lesbians can't meet as lesbians who are attracted to women. They have to meet as women who are attracted to women with gender critical beliefs. No-one asked what do you do if the TiM is gender critical. For example, Debbie Hayton is gender critical.

One serious consequence of the SG position is that TiW would now be considered men for all purposes. This means that a pregnant TiW would lose all protection for maternity leave for example because this refers specifically to 'pregnant women'. They would also not be protected from sex discrimination as they would be seen as men in law. There were other examples that I won't go into. The WFS lawyer said that this would lead to absurd consequences which would strip natal women of their rights and that that could never have been the intention of the legislators. The SG lawyer said that it would be up to parliament to make changes to the relevant laws to protect TiW. She came very close to suggesting that the likes of Freddie McConnell were not living in compliance with their declaration on getting a GRC which is to live in their acquired gender and That is, by falling pregnant, they have done the most female thing possible which is against that declaration.

The WFS lawyer, Aiden O'Neill was outstanding. I could go on for ages about his submissions. He spoke about the male patriarchy and how the SG interpretation was putting male feelings above women's rights. He mentioned that even in the court that day, the majority of those involved were male even on the judicial bench. He said that the sexes are pretty much even at the University stage, but look what happens as time goes on in all spheres of professional life including law. What happens to the women? He urged the court not to give away hard fought women's rights on the basis of a piece of paper. At lone point he asked 'Why do men's feelings trump women's feelings?' He said that women have rights re their privacy, dignity and safety, and these rights have not been discounted, but actually ignored. He finished off by saying that 'Women's rights cannot be over-ridden by poorly written legislation' and finally with a nod to the trans rights mantras, said that 'Women's rights are human rights'.

Honestly, I can't overstate just how good Aidan O'Neill he was. In summary, it was a fascinating couple of days. It's hard to say which way the judges will go because at the end of the day, they are interpreting the legislation in front of them and not just the consequences if you see what I mean. However a couple of things come out of this:

1. It was agreed that there are only two sexes and genders legally;
2. Transgender men and women without a GRC remain their birth sex in all cases. So TW without a GRC are not women. The SG argues that TW with a GRC are women. Whilst this is a positive step, all that will happen is that more people will apply for one if especially if the judgment goes in favour of the SG. It isn't onerous to get one as we know and unfortunately, we know that this government of planning on making it easier to get one.
3. If/when the government introduces its plans to make it easier to obtain a GRC, it will be incumbent of those against this to point out that a GRC is no longer just a nice piece of paper which is a bit of admin, but rather something that, as the SG lawyer argues, has far-reaching consequences for its holder and others dealing with the holder. So it is important that the process bears that in mind.
4. If the SG win, the legal position of TiW will be significantly changed for the worse in terms of them losing all their sex-based rights and protections. Interestingly, it appears that TiW would not be bound by the restrictions in the Abortion Act because those provisions refer specifically to pregnant women. So in theory a pregnant TiW can procure or induce an abortion at any time using any means as there are no restrictions on pregnant men. This was just one of the examples of the consequences of the SG's position.
5. One thing that stuck out was the judges saying that whatever they decided had to be workable in practice. This was said when talking about how do service providers know that someone has a GRC if they're not allowed to ask for one, and the SG lawyer suggested that they should ask for a birth certificate. Hopefully the desire for things to be practically workable will sway the decision in our favour.

That's why I said in my previous post that no matter what side wins, it's likely that the government will have have work to do to amend legislation as right now it's a mess. I am hoping that the judges will see the absurdity of a certificate changing a person's sex and thereby the rights and obligations of government and society to that individual in all circumstances. It seems like an enormous reach for a piece of paper which is relatively easy to obtain and has no real external criteria other than the person wanting it.

Sorry for the essay. As I said, the two days were filled with legal arguments so there was a lot ot pack in. I hope it makes sense and I'm happy to clarify points if needed. It really was a momentous occasion with an awful lot riding on it. I'm both excited and nervous about the ruling which will be sometime next year.
 
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MaineCoonMama

VIP Member
Aww, my step dad does a weekly 'Stitch & Bitch' with the ladies in his town. He's the only man there (He's 83) and does it in memory of my mum who was the love of his life. Nothing nefarious, he's just a good man who happens to be a whiz at spinning and knitting after helping my mum out for years. He's not taking a woman's place, he's honouring his wife.
Sometimes I hate men but my old dad is definitely a good one.
 
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moldwarp

VIP Member
Utter insanity
NOOOO NOT THE COLON! There's a number of detransitioners AND committed transwomen who report that the colon surgery is a nightmare because:

1. The cells which make up the colon are extremely different from the cells that make up the inside of a vagina. (I mean, duh.) Colon cells to put it bluntly are there to process shit and drive the shit along the colon by peristalsis. A number of transwomen have reported that their colon-neovagina emits a strong and constant odour of shit, and there's obvs nothing that can be done about it.
2. The colon cells obviously don't know (because they're transphobic?) that they're now vaginal cells and are meant to behave as such. Even though they're now in the neovagina, they still behave like colon cells. A number of transwomen have reported that when they are digesting food, their neovagina feels as though it's pulsing horribly. This is because, you guessed it, the colon cells didn't get the memo about stunning n brave and are STILL DOING THE PERISTALSIS REFLEX even though they're now in another part of the body.
3. The colon, despite the best wishes of the rainbow brigade, is not simply a long piece of tubing that sits there waiting to be fashioned into a neovag. The colon believe it or not is PRETTY FUCKING IMPORTANT in it's own right. About 15% of colon is typically removed to make the neovag. That means the person now has 15% less colon. And this means that the person's body is now 15% less able to process shit through the body, leading to all kinds of nasty digestive problems. And probably bacterial infections. To go with the nice little petri dish of shit-stinky bacterial infections that the neovag will be cookin' up. Stunning n brave!

TLDR: DON'T FUCK WITH COLONS.
 
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Skyline89

Active member
Tell someone with cancer to identify as fully recovered.
Tell a woman suffering with fertility issues to identify as pregnant.
Tell someone living in poverty to identify as someone who can pay their bills.

I don't identify as anything. I am a woman.

You can take your identities, fetishes and lies, and stick them in the bin - where you'll currently find womens privacy and dignity.
 
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I'm a 35 year old women who is on hormone blockers due to a cancer diagnosis last year. I'm on it about 8 months and I already have arthritis in my spine.

How the fuck was this shit ever okayed for use on children.
 
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moldwarp

VIP Member
She's an enabled cunt.
Luxury beliefs innit. People like Kirsty, Mary Beard, Emma Watson, Caitlin Moran, Sandi Toksvig etc are able to be pro trans or at least make a big fuss about being neutral (because the hEaT oF tHe dEbAtE is scarry guyzzzz!) because they've always been too privileged to need to think about the fundamental physical and psychosocial differences between men and women.

Working class, marginalised and socioeconomically disadvataged women are more likely to be harmed by TRAs because they're more likely to be in shared housing, manual jobs, caring jobs, prisons and refuges.

Peopple like Kirsty really are the epitome of privilege and should really have the humility to listen to others who are not.

However it does once again make me weak with admiration for JKR. She coulda kept her mouth shut and continued to enjoy the love of the bien pensant and fashionable society. But she went to bat for vulnerable women. That is a true feminist.
 
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MaineCoonMama

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Are we really at the trans = paedophile stage here? Unbelievable.
Are you really back here defending men dressing up as little girls, wanting to be 'cute' and sucking on dummies? Obviously nobody here has said it's all trans people.
Jesus Murphy, if you want to start a thread to rave about how great it is to be trans feel free.
I can guarantee not one of us will bother you there.

Someone fetch a broom for me, will you?
 
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Tea_and_Biscuits

Well-known member
I really think that genderwoo has become something slightly outsiderish teens bond over. It used to be music, but now the internet has democratised everything, there are no regional music scenes any more and no sense of discovery when you find a new band that your friends haven't heard of. Are there any youth tribes like punks or goths left any more among teens?
I think the same. Teenagers are very keen to label themselves and whereas it would have been 'goth' 'rocker' or whatever, it feels like it's been replaced by a letter or two from LGBTQetc.

My 14yr old girl is now referring to herself as a gender fluid boy since her best friend decided she was a boy a few months back. Neither me or my husband are buying into it. It's causing a lot of problems at home but we are going with 'watchful waiting ' and hoping that it will be something she'll grow out of. I've no issues with her dressing 'masc' but I won't be referring to her as my son because she isn't.
I've tried to keep her away from the influence of social media but it creeps in everywhere. She parrots all the stock phrases such as 'educate yourself'. I tell her I already have which is why I don't believe you can change sex 😆
 
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Perspicacia Tick

Chatty Member
FB_IMG_1732576398709.jpg


Honestly sometimes it genuinely frightens me that there are people this stupid out there. I'm amazed they have the intelligence to breathe... though I suppose that's instinctual.

Plane toilets are generally reasonably safe because a) noone uses them unless they have to. b) You'd be lucky to fit more than one person inside one and c) if some idiot molests a woman in a plane toilet... they'll get caught pretty fucking quickly - unless they can fly*.

*granted more likely than anyone, anywhere, magically changing biological sex.
 
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My son just trying to play a game he enjoys on his console then this pops up…
IMG_4332.jpeg
FYI it’s a game about a turnip who robs a bank. So this rubbish is even being written into games aimed at young teens. I’m absolutely livid.
 
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ElmoCookie

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My daughter’s bestie, Fred I shall call him, is male. They are both now 8. Fred loves the same things she does - dance, Disney, sparkles - you get the idea. He once went to world book day at school as Elsa from Frozen. He likes what he likes and doesn’t give a shit but definitely refers to himself a boy.

Anyway, he started ballet when he was 4. Wanted to wear the same as the other girls in his class. The teacher then started to ask the mum what gender he was, how should she refer to him and what his new name was. The mum was at first thinking “how inclusive” then took a breath and was like WTF - he’s 4. He’s a boy and called Fred. He wants to be like the others in his class. So what, I stopped him eating playdoh this morning. He is not at an age to make any life decisions
 
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TheMiceInTheShed

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I don't understand why anyone would expect a taxpayer-funded resource to pay for one lot of sex-reassignment surgery (butchery), never mind three. Pay for it from your own resources or GTFO.

I can try to understand and empathise with the distress that dysphoric people feel, but we don't use taxpayers' cash to give gastric bypasses to people with anorexia, or to give amputations to people with body dysmorphia. It's far from clear that any of the treatments for gender dysphoria are effective in adults, and certainly not for children or adolescents.

We should be putting those scarce resources into improving mental health services - and as noted above, into women's health to relieve the current shortfall.
We should be putting those scarce resources into improving mental health services - and as noted above, into women's health to relieve the current shortfall.

This. In spades.

Even in these "advanced" times, women do most of the work in the home as well as much of the time working and contributing economically. They also carry the entire emotional burden in many, if not most, families, meeting the emotional needs of men and children - support which is not often reciprocated, so that many, many women are carrying the mental /emotional load of the entire family without anyone helping with theirs.

Women are valuable human beings IN THEIR OWN RIGHT but this is not recognised in society even now, and men are given priority at every turn.

In addition to this WOMEN ARE MAINTAINING THE COHESION OF SOCIETY WITH THEIR NURTURING ROLE so even if you don't give a toss about women as people, then think about the world we live in. Do you want a world where people are valued and work together to make a decent society, or do you want one where we are ruled by violence and survival of the most aggressive?

We see it in cultures where men are considered paramount. Those Islamic countries which are suppressing their women - not allowing them to be educated, to have any autonomy, or even to speak - are going to reap a terrible harvest, probably within a single generation.

If we want to live in a decent society, we have to protect and look after women, because they are the basis of everything in a civilised world. This is an evolutionary development to protect the young of the species - an instinct which women have much more than men do. Women should be valued, and we aren't.

WOMEN ARE IMPORTANT.
 
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Metropolis

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My daughter’s bestie, Fred I shall call him, is male. They are both now 8. Fred loves the same things she does - dance, Disney, sparkles - you get the idea. He once went to world book day at school as Elsa from Frozen. He likes what he likes and doesn’t give a shit but definitely refers to himself a boy.

Anyway, he started ballet when he was 4. Wanted to wear the same as the other girls in his class. The teacher then started to ask the mum what gender he was, how should she refer to him and what his new name was. The mum was at first thinking “how inclusive” then took a breath and was like WTF - he’s 4. He’s a boy and called Fred. He wants to be like the others in his class. So what, I stopped him eating playdoh this morning. He is not at an age to make any life decisions
My friend’s son was just the same as a little boy. All his friends were girls, he loved dressing up in sparkly dresses and dancing. When he was 13, he told his mum he thought he might be a girl because of his interests and friendship group. He grew his hair long and wore androgynous clothes. She just said, “that’s nice dear” and carried on with life, never bringing it up or commenting on his choices. Well, he is 20 now, and is pursuing a career in performing arts. A few months ago, he made the decision to cut his hair, came out as gay and actually said recently that he loved being a boy. He is in his first serious relationship and is very happy. I dread to think how things could have gone if gender ideologists had got hold of him as a youngster.
 
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