Gender Discussion #73

[Scotch Mist]

That's the point of assisted dying, if there is a law then he won't be in prison for murdering me.

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I'm concerned about the potential abuse of vulnerable people like the severely disabled who might be seen as a burden to their families.
if this law comes in it won't be restricted to elderly people with dementia or terminal cancer.
Plenty will challenge the courts for their right to die including the disabled and people who are very depressed.

 

[Hollaaa]

Your son won't get anything if he's in prison for murdering you!

I just think that a lot of elderly people will feel pressurised to shuffle off and that's wrong

I worry about the people who have been groomed into self-mutilation, and the clinicians willing to carry it out. If the 'be kind' mob are making the laws about assisted dying - and the sanitised language here reminds me of the saying gender when we mean sex thing - then I feel very uncomfortable.

 

[Notworthy]

I don't think these issues are insurmountable Right-to-die campaigner would be 'livid' about lack of assisted dying progress (msn.com)
A lot of the problem in the UK is that we don't really talk about death, it's life at all costs and sometimes that cost is too high.
There is an equal argument in the number of families that keep loved ones alive despite their wishes and quality of life.
I had an acquaintance years ago whose Son was healthy and at 3 months stopped breathing. They rushed him to hospital and begged the Drs to save him, thinking that death was the worst that could happen, well her Son lived but with zero quality of life, she freely admits that she wishes now that the Drs had refused to resuscitate because it would have been the best option both for him and the family.
I see plenty of severely disabled people that still have a meaningful, happy life but I also see ones that have no life at all and are only alive now due to the advances in medical science.

Friendly mod note: Please keep on topic now, there is an assisted dying thread here thank you.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

Surprised to hear that, since the NHS no longer routinely check cervical samples for cell changes, they first test for HPV.

If HPV negative, they don’t check the cells. If some cases of cervical cancer aren’t related to HPV, surely that means some women are being missed even if they have smear tests?

This is an example of women’s health being neglected. Some cervical cancers are of a different etiology than the HPV induced ones but they are extremely rare. I’m guessing it’s about cost-cutting at women’s expense. Probably cheaper to just screen for HPV as you presumably wouldn’t need a human eye screening the samples. I don’t know any of that as fact but it’s what I suspect. They are relying on HPV negative/untested/virginal women to seek investigations following symptoms of cervical cancer to detect and diagnose in these rarer instances. So instead of being found at a pre-cancerous stage it’s likely to be advanced enough to cause symptoms. Now they’ve rolled out the HPV vaccine are they just going to stop routine smear tests at some point in the future? We are too expensive and bothersome to care about

 

[petitspois]

This is an example of women’s health being neglected. Some cervical cancers are of a different etiology than the HPV induced ones but they are extremely rare. I’m guessing it’s about cost-cutting at women’s expense. Probably cheaper to just screen for HPV as you presumably wouldn’t need a human eye screening the samples. I don’t know any of that as fact but it’s what I suspect. They are relying on HPV negative/untested/virginal women to seek investigations following symptoms of cervical cancer to detect and diagnose in these rarer instances. So instead of being found at a pre-cancerous stage it’s likely to be advanced enough to cause symptoms. Now they’ve rolled out the HPV vaccine are they just going to stop routine smear tests at some point in the future? We are too expensive and bothersome to care about

I'd be with you normally but I think this is just a case of putting the NHS money to best use. Few cervical cancers are not caused by HPV so I'd like to think they are putting the budget into other gynae stuff. I know it's not a direct switch of course but I did see something about a possible ovarian cancer vaccine last week so that would be wonderful.

 

[Lynn’ssnazzycardigan]

I'd be with you normally but I think this is just a case of putting the NHS money to best use. Few cervical cancers are not caused by HPV so I'd like to think they are putting the budget into other gynae stuff. I know it's not a direct switch of course but I did see something about a possible ovarian cancer vaccine last week so that would be wonderful.

You’re probably right, I just see the red mist sometimes and have to rant You can bet that those who can afford private healthcare will be getting full screening regardless.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

@TheMiceInTheShed micey:

Not US but can point you in the right direction I expect:

Surrogacy concern

Join us today: [email protected]

surrogacyconcern.uk

(no title)

We are a group of women from diverse backgrounds who are concerned about the law reform proposals for UK’s 1985 Surrogacy Act. We work alongside other campaign groups both here and overseas to fight against the exploitation of women and the commodification of children through surrogacy. We focus...

www.stopsurrogacynowuk.org

https://declaration-surrogacy-casablanca.org/declaration-genesis/ an international group from 75 countries lobbying for banning surrogacy (and international child trafficking)

Thank you s much - these look excellent!
---

Well I watched it. Jesus it's so sad. The journalist seems to have the view that it's wrong, trafficking, exploits women but there's one American couple who used a Ukrainian surrogate that she's very sympathetic to.

Anyways, it starts around the time Russia invaded Ukraine, Marina van Zeller was on the way to Ukraine to meet with an American group who are trying to evacuate women, children and surrogates. She talks about how surrogacy is legal in the Ukraine. There is a bit of drama however when they evacuate surrogates to Poland but have to return to Ukraine to give birth as otherwise the surrogate would be the legal mother. One woman said she was being paid $24,000 to be a surrogate which MvZ said was six times the average annual salary. She didn't agree she was making her body a commodity.

MvZ then went to Nairobi, Kenya and spoke to surrogates and the men who recruit them. Surrogacy is illegal there but doctors and other officials can be paid off. The pimps get most of the money with some women getting as little as $500 to carry and give birth. The maternity mortality rates are very high in Kenya and some women die delivering the babies but the families are never told this. Women are told they will get thousands when they are recruited and agree, not realising or understating what they are agreeing to. One doctor involved says he does it because he believes he can provide better care to the women and wants to effect change in the surrogacy laws.

They talk about how India was once the go-to country for surrogacy until it was made illegal in 2015 however that has just made it a completely black market operation.

They didn't touch on the families who renege on the agreement because they baby has a disability or additional needs.

It was very sad seeing all the newborn babies in the hospital in the Ukraine, crying and alone. I understand the intense feelings of needing and wanting to have a child but I just can't get on board with surrogacy. A woman's body isn't a commodity, a baby isn't a product.
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Just to add to my previous post, it is estimated the surrogacy business is worth $4bn a year but they've no idea how many babies are born each year and what becomes of them.

Thank you for this précis - it sounds heartbreaking.

Co-incidentally it was because of a conversation which turned to abandoned surrogate babies in Ukraine that I was asked to give a talk about it, so it seems very appropriate.

 

[Funny_bunny]

I’m sure if men had babies then surrogacy would never have been allowed.

 

[TheMiceInTheShed]

I've just come on to thank those people who have given me links - I'm getting well into info now and by chance @Funny_bunny has mentioned something that someone in the film I'm watching has said - that if anyone tried to exploit men like this - putting something into their bodies which might adversely affect their physical or mental health, or even kill them, on behalf of other people, then the law would have stepped in to prevent it long ago.

 

[tablesandchairs]

Peter Tatchell is speaking at my place of work this week we have been asked for volunteers to pick him up from the station and/or have lunch with him…

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Peter Tatchell is speaking at my place of work this week we have been asked for volunteers to pick him up from the station and/or have lunch with him…

Eh he's a bleeping pedalo. Can you not show HR his article about reducing the age of consent?? Whoever invited him to speak is telling you who they are.

 

[tablesandchairs]

Eh he's a bleeping pedalo. Can you not show HR his article about reducing the age of consent?? Whoever invited him to speak is telling you who they are.

I’d imagine they’d return with such as this https://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/what-peter-tatchell-really-said-about-child-sex-abuse/ and I’d just be outing myself as a TERF etc

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

I’d imagine they’d return with such as this https://www.petertatchellfoundation.org/what-peter-tatchell-really-said-about-child-sex-abuse/ and I’d just be outing myself as a TERF etc

I couldn't stomach to be near that b, it's not mandatory that you have to go is it??

 

[VeniVidiVicki]

The crowdfunder for the cricket kids has been pulled. Please report their original one which is also to fund ‘direct action’ as now we know what kind of direct action they think is acceptable.

Bev Jackson was interviewed by Andrew Doyle yesterday about the conference which is worth a watch.

 

[tablesandchairs]

I couldn't stomach to be near that b, it's not mandatory that you have to go is it??

Luckily no. I’m not involved. But I’m disappointed.

 

[IdeletedbutI'mbackagain]

Luckily no. I’m not involved. But I’m disappointed.

I understand your disappointment but I am glad for your well being that you won't be in the same room as him

 

[Metropolis]

God help us

 

[Mismatched Pegs]

To be fair that's from, over a year ago. Maybe recent developments have made him actually think about the issues.
If you were to go through my social media from several years ago you'd find some right sanctimonious clap trap about the most marginalised demographic in history

 

[Metropolis]

To be fair that's from, over a year ago. Maybe recent developments have made him actually think about the issues.
If you were to go through my social media from several years ago you'd find some right sanctimonious clap trap about the most marginalised demographic in history

I dunno - he is still a pronoun man, which means he still subscribes to the gender nonsense.

————————————————

This is an updated government form for reporting the death of a child. If you click on the link, it takes you straight to the gov website. Updated yesterday by the Dept of Health and Social Care. Every day I ask myself how has this pervasive ideology got its hooks into everything? These are children we are talking about

 

[Notworthy]

If there is ever a point where how you identify is important (never imo) death definitely isn't it, they don't identify as anything because their bleeping dead, bleeping morons.