Gender Discussion #30

[emm]

I think you're right. My father always acted like a gentleman and would do things like open doors for women. He's been dead a while now but his generation were generally more respectful in the way they treated women.

A friend of mine went out on a date with a man recently and at the end of the night he called himself a cab got in it and drove off, leaving my friend to walk home on her own!
He had no concerns for her safety not even walking her to a bus stop.
My father would never have thought it was acceptable to do that.

Of course there was a lot of sexism last century but now we apparently have equal rights men don't seem to think that they have to show women any courtesy at all.

I don't think it is fair to say men being "gentlemanly" is a good think tbh, statiscally speaking you are more likely to be attacked by a male friend/date who is "looking afetr you and walking you home" than a starnger off the street

 

[Hanibo]

I don't think it is fair to say men being "gentlemanly" is a good think tbh, statiscally speaking you are more likely to be attacked by a male friend/date who is "looking afetr you and walking you home" than a starnger off the street

It also contributes to the whole “weak woman / strong, protective man” view, imo.

(I do, however, think that people need to be more respectful and considerate of others than they are. Like the example given of not caring how that woman got home - surely you would check with anyone you had been out with to make sure they had a way home? That sounds more like a case of the guy just being an inconsiderate mole rather than anything to do with being gentlemanly or not.)

 

[PastryPolly]

"Son, tell Nana about your PhD. Everyone is so proud of you for getting into higher education. You must be doing such important work."

"Well Nana, I masturbate every day to images of fictional young boys having sex and then rank how much I enjoyed it."

View attachment 1488573

PhD Student Masturbated to Fantasy Child Sexual Abuse Material For "Research" - Reduxx

An academic article published by a PhD researcher at the University of Manchester is raising concerns from child safeguarding experts after it was discovered the article was focused on the writer’s experience masturbating to fantasy child sexual abuse material. Karl Andersson, a Swedish-born...

reduxx.info

Jesus H Christ. I could only read half of that, that's more than enough internet for today.

 

[soph30]

I’m mid 20’s . I think my generation often gets labelled as being all TRAs, but I’ve found that not to be the case. It’s true that a lot of the young TRAs are defo the most militant, but I’d say there’s also a fair amount of young people who don’t subscribe to the nonsense and also a fair amount who disagree with a lot of what the TRAs say but are too frightened to say anything for fear of backlash and getting labelled a fascist.
I really do not give a duck anymore either and I started telling people recently that I don’t agree with a lot of this tit and I am concerned about the inclusion of trans women in female categories in sports, the invasion of female only spaces etc. I actually found the response a lot more positive than I expected, a lot of people quietly agree with me on it.

That's so comforting to hear- I don't know any Gen Z well so great to hear at least some don't subscribe to this nonsense

 

[nothanksbabes]

Can I say something that may be a bit ageist so I hope it doesn’t come across badly- it’s honestly just an observation. I’m in my early thirties so not super young but I’ve noticed a lot of us on this thread say they left school in the eighties, are retired etc so over 40/50. There seems to be a high percentage of older women interested in discussing gender so hope the younger ones aren’t being totally brainwashed or think this thread doesn’t speak to them it’s so worrying

I'm 36 and have always been interested in radical feminism (since I was a teenager) but I definitely give way less of a duck what people think of me now.

I think it's now or never in terms of speaking up. I'm at the point where I'm open about my views everywhere except work (civil service, full captured, for now) - a lot of people of whatever age are going to quietly pretend they never supported gender ideology and blame someone else when it really becomes a scandal and we see what happens when we medicalise and pathologise gender non conforming kids, when we allow men in vulnerable women's spaces, when we deny women's sex-based oppression...

I think you're right. My father always acted like a gentleman and would do things like open doors for women. He's been dead a while now but his generation were generally more respectful in the way they treated women.

A friend of mine went out on a date with a man recently and at the end of the night he called himself a cab got in it and drove off, leaving my friend to walk home on her own!
He had no concerns for her safety not even walking her to a bus stop.
My father would never have thought it was acceptable to do that.

Of course there was a lot of sexism last century but now we apparently have equal rights men don't seem to think that they have to show women any courtesy at all.

I agree, I actually think we've been a bit 'had' by third wave feminism since the 90s girl power thing.

Back in the day there was an expectation that men would behave a certain way (pay for things, be "chivalrous" etc.) and women would behave a certain way (be "feminine", do domestic stuff, whatever).

The expectation for women, I think, has actually got worse. We have to do all that, and be professionally successful, give birth to and raise children while contributing 50% financially and are expected to meet ever more invasive beauty standards, while men being chivalrous is seen as outdated or worse, sexist. I think in a lot of ways, women really have been robbed

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

I'm also in my 30s. I think TERF demographics are Gen X up mostly, but it's because millennials and Gen Z have been massively indoctrinated.

 

[Deeznutslol]

I'm also in my 30s. I think TERF demographics are Gen X up mostly, but it's because millennials and Gen Z have been massively indoctrinated.

Thing that messes with my head is that we were all making memes taking the piss out of blue haired SJWs and non binnies about 2 years ago . Then almost overnight it became mainstream, everyone suddenly had their pronouns in their bios, corporations started putting transgender flags all over the place and anyone who dared question even the smallest aspect of TRA ideology was automatically cancelled lmfaooo

 

[Scotch Mist]

I don't think it is fair to say men being "gentlemanly" is a good think tbh, statiscally speaking you are more likely to be attacked by a male friend/date who is "looking afetr you and walking you home" than a starnger off the street

I disagree that basic good manners and treating women with respect is in anyway a bad thing.

My friend was disgusted with her 'date' abandoning her late at night. He didn't even offer to share his cab with her. Needless to say she won't be seeing him again. She felt that he simply didn't care if someone mugged her on the way home.

It may be correct statistically that women are more likely to be attacked by someone they know than a random stranger, but we all know that it still happens.

 

[JAR21]

View attachment 1487474Can we add Selfridges to the rave list? Refreshingly limited options

Why don't they use sex instead of gender?

I've noticed that if you are trying to report something on twitter, it's becoming harder and harder to find options that aren't in someway related to bloody trans people. There's even an option now for reporting dead naming.

Reporting on Twitter is now just so narrow that I pick something and put my real complaint in the 'additional info' box near the end.

But the Irish Times has got the headline wrong - transgender women are not excluded from rugby, they can play as much rugby as the wish in a male sex team

I don't know why sport doesn't now say they have an open category and a women's category for biological women? Then they can be told to play in the open category, without it being classed as a men's competition.

 

[wafflesnwings]

Just out of interest do any of you guys wish you’d been born male? There are a lot of quite frustrating and unfair things about being female and you feel a bit objectified, but I think there’s a lot of pressure as a man to be ‘masculine’ and sometimes I feel they can’t be themselves

I've been thinking about this for most of my day. When I was younger, I used to wish that I had been born a male, not because of trans ideology or brainwashing (I'm in my 20s), but because I saw how much further men could go in terms of wealth, general security, their career and how nearly all of them (well the ones I saw) seemed to be made out of Teflon. Then I saw how women were parentified at such a young age (I was; it's one of many reasons why I do not want to have children), the pressures put on us (from my culture and wider society). For a long time, I thought men had it easier, until my male cousin (whom I was close to) committed suicide. He was very young, so loved, had just finished university and it shocked everyone: no one knew why he did it. It did open my eyes to a set of different pressures men have - I saw so much of it impact my dad (especially when you're caught in between two cultures and growing up in a hostile society: patriarchy has a way of manifesting itself in different ways). As I read more Feminist literature, generally grew up and started work/studied more/was around women who were openly Feminist, from my background and challenging all the issues we face from our culture and country etc. that feeling of inadequacy started to go away and it's barely there anymore. Those interactions, friendships and exposure to Feminist literature were extremely formative - I recommend the books I read to my younger cousins. I'm very proud and thankful to have been born a woman. I think we are immensely powerful, magnificent and that terrifies men - and quite rightly so!

 

[maytoseptember]

Can I say something that may be a bit ageist so I hope it doesn’t come across badly- it’s honestly just an observation. I’m in my early thirties so not super young but I’ve noticed a lot of us on this thread say they left school in the eighties, are retired etc so over 40/50. There seems to be a high percentage of older women interested in discussing gender so hope the younger ones aren’t being totally brainwashed or think this thread doesn’t speak to them it’s so worrying

There’s a reason why older women (I almost choked typing that, I’m 41) are more likely to be TERFs.

Younger women (generalising here, no need to contradict me by saying BUT I WASN’T LIKE THAT) are more likely to adhere to the lib fem, be kind, TWAW school of thought because female socialisation teaches us that and it takes a long time - and a bit of life experience - to undo. When I was in my 20s I was definitely of the opinion that trans people have hard lives so we just need to be nice to them; if men want to join “our side” then what’s the harm etc?

(Mind you, this would have been the 00s so trans people in public were a very rare sight and literally just male cross dressers - somehow I doubt I would have been quite so welcoming to the angry, mentally unstable trans people that have emerged over the last 5-10 years).

It was only after having kids that I truly realised what I wanted out of feminism, and it wasn’t liberal feminism.

 

[soph30]

I've been thinking about this for most of my day. When I was younger, I used to wish that I had been born a male, not because of trans ideology or brainwashing (I'm in my 20s), but because I saw how much further men could go in terms of wealth, general security, their career and how nearly all of them (well the ones I saw) seemed to be made out of Teflon. Then I saw how women were parentified at such a young age (I was; it's one of many reasons why I do not want to have children), the pressures put on us (from my culture and wider society). For a long time, I thought men had it easier, until my male cousin (whom I was close to) committed suicide. He was very young, so loved, had just finished university and it shocked everyone: no one knew why he did it. It did open my eyes to a set of different pressures men have - I saw so much of it impact my dad (especially when you're caught in between two cultures and growing up in a hostile society: patriarchy has a way of manifesting itself in different ways). As I read more Feminist literature, generally grew up and started work/studied more/was around women who were openly Feminist, from my background and challenging all the issues we face from our culture and country etc. that feeling of inadequacy started to go away and it's barely there anymore. Those interactions, friendships and exposure to Feminist literature were extremely formative - I recommend the books I read to my younger cousins. I'm very proud and thankful to have been born a woman. I think we are immensely powerful, magnificent and that terrifies men - and quite rightly so!

I'm sorry about your cousin, at least you have the memories and he'll always live on
Yeah one thing I do feel is that men- especially white men- are being told they're monsters with all this identity politics. Imagine having NO victim status to play on to the mob- being male, white and heterosexual? No wonder they often develop poor mental health

 

[CheshireLove]

Can I say something that may be a bit ageist so I hope it doesn’t come across badly- it’s honestly just an observation. I’m in my early thirties so not super young but I’ve noticed a lot of us on this thread say they left school in the eighties, are retired etc so over 40/50. There seems to be a high percentage of older women interested in discussing gender so hope the younger ones aren’t being totally brainwashed or think this thread doesn’t speak to them it’s so worrying

I am lateish 20’s and was tentatively questioning all of this before JK published her first essay in 2020. I felt relieved to read the essay because it so succinctly set out how I was feeling.

I hope that the young women in their teens and early 20’s who buy into all of this (or say they do) now will realise, probably with time, the misogyny of gender ideology and question the implications of it. I did and I’m sure there are other young women who do or will soon.

I’m worried about teenage girls through, the TRAs and their “be kind” (and shut up and don’t question men anything) mantra is very forceful and ostracising if you don’t follow.

 

[soph30]

I am lateish 20’s and was tentatively questioning all of this before JK published her first essay in 2020.

I hope that the young women in their teens and early 20’s who buy all of this (or say they do) now will realise with time the misogyny of gender ideology and question the implications of it. I did.

Where did it COME from? I seem to remember 2015 and Caitlyn Jenner bringing it to the mainstream

 

[Glortard]

Do you reckon

"Son, tell Nana about your PhD. Everyone is so proud of you for getting into higher education. You must be doing such important work."

"Well Nana, I masturbate every day to images of fictional young boys having sex and then rank how much I enjoyed it."

View attachment 1488573

PhD Student Masturbated to Fantasy Child Sexual Abuse Material For "Research" - Reduxx

An academic article published by a PhD researcher at the University of Manchester is raising concerns from child safeguarding experts after it was discovered the article was focused on the writer’s experience masturbating to fantasy child sexual abuse material. Karl Andersson, a Swedish-born...

reduxx.info

Do you reckon if I contacted Manchester police saying I was alarmed by this they would respond like the Harry Miller police?

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Where did it COME from? I seem to remember 2015 and Caitlyn Jenner bringing it to the mainstream

I first remember seeing what I'd call modern trans culture from about 2014. It's when I first came across someone calling themselves non-binary and the drama about Peterson and pronouns - at the time I was on side (I only peaked in 2020).

 

[Deeznutslol]

Younger women (generalising here, no need to contradict me by saying BUT I WASN’T LIKE THAT) are more likely to adhere to the lib fem, be kind, TWAW school of thought because female socialisation teaches us that and it takes a long time - and a bit of life experience - to undo. When I was in my 20s I was definitely of the opinion that trans people have hard lives so we just need to be nice to them; if men want to join “our side” then what’s the harm etc?

This is so true tbh, I think as well when you’re younger you really care a lot more in general about fitting in, and it can be scary to go against the grain, especially when it’s going to get you labeled with something as serious as being a fascist. The fear of being socially ostracized like that is terrifying!

 

[maytoseptember]

The expectation for women, I think, has actually got worse. We have to do all that, and be professionally successful, give birth to and raise children while contributing 50% financially and are expected to meet ever more invasive beauty standards, while men being chivalrous is seen as outdated or worse, sexist. I think in a lot of ways, women really have been robbed

bleeping right we’ve been robbed! Women really cannot “have it all”. Either career or child-raising has to get sidelined, because it’s impossible to juggle both 100% of the time. Women who want to go back to work full time are both applauded and derided for outsourcing the care of their infants. Women who quit their jobs are called lazy and leeching off their partners. Absolutely no one wins.

I've been thinking about this for most of my day. When I was younger, I used to wish that I had been born a male, not because of trans ideology or brainwashing (I'm in my 20s), but because I saw how much further men could go in terms of wealth, general security, their career and how nearly all of them (well the ones I saw) seemed to be made out of Teflon.

It might have been Helen Joyce who said this, but someone said “Since we are teaching kids that they can change sex, is it really a surprise that so many girls start saying they’re boys?”.

Yeah one thing I do feel is that men- especially white men- are being told they're monsters with all this identity politics. Imagine having NO victim status to play on to the mob- being male, white and heterosexual? No wonder they often develop poor mental health

I don't quite follow? I mean, I accept that the social justice movement places cis white males at the very top of the "oppressor" list but I think you'd need pretty thin skin to develop poor mental health as a result. People need to recognise balls when they see it.

It just seems too close to the detransitioner argument that it's always someone else's fault - in their case, that it's all feminists' fault because they say bad things about men which leads men to reject maleness and loon out. Which is patently balls.

 

[Ekathrina]

I can see why some men and boys end up with mental health issues - but that’s often as a result of the very patriarchal system that the majority of men benefit from and help maintain in a variety of ways. Most of them are not victims in any way so I find it hard to feel sorry for their lack of victim points.

 

[!noseyparker!]

Just out of interest do any of you guys wish you’d been born male? There are a lot of quite frustrating and unfair things about being female and you feel a bit objectified, but I think there’s a lot of pressure as a man to be ‘masculine’ and sometimes I feel they can’t be themselves

Nope, never but I did wish I could walk late at night/ go camping with female friends/ go hitchhiking without worrying about being grape.

Where did it COME from? I seem to remember 2015 and Caitlyn Jenner bringing it to the mainstream

So I remember seeing this stuff on tumblr in 2012-2014 (which is where I saw stuff about cis privilege and thought well clearly that applies to cis men but not cis women because how can you be privileged for your own oppression and I found radfem stuff both on and offline). Also at university, which I finished around the same time, there were two non-binary women. I didn't know either well but one of them who I am still friends with on social media but haven't spoken to since has gone full gender critical openly on social media. I keep on meaning to message her about it (there are some other weird coincidences in our career paths - we are both in very trans friendly fields with some overlap - and she also was definitely someone I wanted to be friends with back then but was too shy.

But how that got mainstream traction so quickly (well money I guess and piggy backing off feminist LGB causes as well as more recently BLM) I'm not sure