Gender Discussion #26

[petitspois]

I was watching one of Stanley Tucci’s Italy shows on iPlayer and he spends time with a group of women who are making a traditional meal for a large group. They spend all day doing this, then, when they sit down to eat Stanley announces coyly that their custom is for visitors and then men get the best parts of the meat, then the kids with the women getting the boney part last. AND THEY ALL LAUGHED AND CARRIED ON.

Can you imagine a situation where someone would announce that disabled people ate last or black people or, in fact, anything other than women and they would just carry on and not challenge it at all??? In 2022?

I’d tip the bloody lot over their heads.

 

[judgejohndeed]

I agree it is very difficult. On the one hand this is an online forum where anyone can contribute and I have certainly learnt a lot from these posts. On the other this is really one of the only the places we can talk about these issues with others who feel similarly. I would hate to think someone has left this thread upset on a personal level as despite my views I do not make a habit of going round upsetting trans people IRL, but equally that is risk you take on a gender thread.

I also dislike the suggestion that we ‘don’t understand’, it is possible to understand arguments and perspectives without agreeing. Further the comments about ‘putting the family first’ - I don’t even know what this is meant to mean - and the ‘mental cliff edge’ - as a woman in England this is how I feel about this whole thing every day. Every day there is something else, some other erosion of our rights, some other nutter calling us TERFs and threatening death and sexual violence over our views. It’s certainly not easy for any of us.

 

[bananabutter]

 

[maytoseptember]

Femininity? In the workplace? That is actually illegal under the GRA.

Books grooming kids ages 4-8 into accepting sex. No child aged 4-8 years should now anything about intercourse.


'Sabrina's vagina becomes moist and warm and Marco's penis gets very stiff. Marco then pushes his penis into Sabrina's vagina.

'Always in and out. That feels great for both of them. When the feeling is nicest, Marco's penis sprays semen into Sabrina's vagina.

'That's how you get babies,' Toby said.'

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...hildren-young-FOUR-frankly-describes-sex.html

That’s porn. Porn for little kids. Chipping away at boundaries and safeguarding but by bit. It’s one thing to have a book about sex aimed at young kids, that describes things in a rather clinical but age appropriate way… and that.

 

[klarakluckbag]

I suppose it's tricky for the organiser, because she doesn't want criticism for making it "women only", but by adding "non-binary people" to the title what she really means is "women who say they're non-binary", which also wouldn't go down well.

I'd just think it was more effort than it was worth to be honest.

But why would she get criticism for organising a women's walking group? The men are allowed to have their own group, so why can't women? We have some lovely woodlands and riverside areas where I live, but we have also had incidents where women have been attacked when walking alone, so a walking group is a really good idea, I was thinking of joining in myself. Everyone knows that exercise is good for your mental health, I just don't see why the women's group has to include people who want to make a declaration about their "gender identity", when the men's group is not expected to accommodate this, their group is for men, and men only.

To be honest, it put me right off. I can see a TiM or two turning up, resplendent in their make-up and beards, expecting to be lauded for their "bravery" etc.
I just fancied a walk around the woods, and maybe a chat with some other women, and I daresay most women would feel the same. Why do they have to bring gender identity into everything? I don't even expect non-binary people to have their own group, but a women's walking group should be for women only, no matter what their sexuality, gender identity or what have you. It doesn't matter, the only qualifying criteria should be that you're a woman who wants to go for a walk. Why make it more specific than that?

To be perfectly honest, even a TiM turning up wouldn't bother me in a walking group, but it's just that expectation that it's one group for the men, and another for everyone else that is so annoying. If it's not a group just for women, then don't label it as such!

 

[Ekathrina]

I can’t help but feel I’ve seen this exact same scenario played out in the Feminism section over on Mumsnet.
I appreciate that some people might find the things that are said here hurtful to some extent, but we already get guilt tripped and expected to ‘be kind’ in virtually every other place on the internet regarding these issues as it is.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

 

[CookieZippy]

So much truth in this

 

[judgejohndeed]

I'm not saying I agree with this, but it is a fact that minorities have been the butt of jokes since...basically forever. How many of these trans people were bothered when it was other minorities having jokes made at their expense? Why do trans people want or expect special treatment, I thought they jUst wAnT tOo pEE!!!!!!

 

[GladiatorReady]

We are going to see hundreds of cases like this in the next few years



And everyone will gasp and say 'oh my, why did nobody speak up about it before? Where were the women? Why didn't they say anything?'

 

[Glortard]

Not a regular poster on this thread but have been looking at these threads lately as I’ve been thinking the concept of transgender over recently, probably because of the media and things I’ve seen. Trying to establish what my stance is. I’ve just seen one of those Reddit am I the asshole articles and been reading the comments (can of worms), in short it was a mother who had a diamond necklace which was traditionally passed through the family to first born daughter- was about to be given to 17yo daughter, when 18 yo who was first son who had transitioned to female 4 years ago laid a claim on it saying they were now first born daughter. Got to reading an argument between two people, one who was saying things I think I agree with but then was being called transphobic and close minded because they said that biological sex was determined by your sex organs at birth. A widely accepted concept no? How else is it decided babies don’t identify as anything. I know there are some people who raise their babies gender neutral but legally they are still one or the other? Is this a thing now where what physical body you have is literally irrelevant and me saying my daughters are my daughters because they were born with vulvas is transphobic? I’m so confused. I don’t want to be anything phobic really but reading by what sort of views would label me this I think I am honestly my views are if someone wants to transition and it makes them happy I’m all for it but I see it as a type of body modification. I wouldn’t treat anyone as a lesser person because of it, but I don’t think artificially changing your appearance and hormones makes you into the genuine article. Changing rooms and toilets seem to be the hot topic, would I feel more comfortable changing for swimming next to a trans man or a trans woman? Well it becomes more complicated here I guess. I have a lot of different ‘if this’ elements that change my answer. Feels all a bit overwhelming to be honest.
Oh and yes I agree with JK Rowling that the word woman is being erased. Honestly feel like this is something I’d be afraid to say out loud. And I think of myself as relatively progressive and accepting. At the end of the day I don’t understand it but I’ll treat everyone with compassion and respect. What that looks like though is a mystery to me right now however.

I am transphobic as I don't believe a bloke can become a woman - that is how simple it is to be phobic. You could even spend 20 years working with woman who have suffered sexual violence from men and be labelled a "hate group" because you refuse to allow men who identify as woman entry (true story from Canada).

If I went to my doctor and asked for my arm to be chopped off I would be branded mentally unwell and treated by being talked to not by having my arm cut off. Depending on where we are if my daughter who is under 18 went and asked for a mastectomy she would be entertained and celebrated as brave. That is where we are as a society.

 

[maytoseptember]

Kicking off the new thread with this.

Holy shiiiiit.

 

[maytoseptember]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again- I do not understand that Freddie at all. They say they’re male, and yet want to experience pregnancy and birth TWICE. How can someone be so horrifically traumatised by being ‘misgendered’ whilst GIVING BIRTH!? Someone who is capable of growing and birthing a baby but can’t handle a few jokes from a comedian who is known for being semi offensive to literally everyone?? Surely you have to have a pretty thick skin to experience pregnancy as a TiF? It’s hard enough as a regular woman. Honestly the mind boggles. The less attention he(!?) gets the better but unfortunately some people seem to lap it up.

Freddie makes me feel quite angry to be honest. My take is that she has major MH issues and delights in the performative anger and control of other people’s thoughts and language that is part and parcel of pretending to be a pregnant man/“seahorse dad”. Shouting at HCPs during the birth of her second child, for daring to use female pronouns FFS. I mean never mind the fact you’re being induced early because your placenta is failing and your baby isn’t growing (who knew that messing with one’s hormones could affect a pregnancy so badly?)… got to make sure it’s still all about you and your delusions!

That’s the thing about TIFs. It’s all about power and control and punishing/altering your body to extremes. Which is why there’s such a clear correlation with eating disorders.

 

[Scotch Mist]

Saw this exchange on Facebook and at this point I feel some men are identifying as trans or non binary so they can have skin in the game and talk over women. This person says they are both non binary and trans which we have discussed on here before but I don’t get how you can be both. The original post this was on had some good points but the eye roll here took away from it. He also busted out the good old ‘TERF’ label.
View attachment 1306217View attachment 1306218View attachment 1306219
I’m sorry, but this person is a man. How can they go about saying they are trans non binary with a straight face.
View attachment 1306223
Of course they have a beard

So he talks of all groups that have been discriminated against but women don't count I suppose As someone who has experienced a lot of sexism in my younger years and now ageism in my older years I find him offensive.
He's basically a narcissistic twat.

 

[smellyfootballboots]

My work's learning and development team have announced a "workshop" about "femininity" and what it means to us and the "future of femininity". Run by the one trans woman at work, who does not work in L&D and presumably has zero qualifications beyond "lived experience".

I'd join to see what's what but I need to keep my job.

Femininity? In the workplace? That is actually illegal under the GRA.

Books grooming kids ages 4-8 into accepting sex. No child aged 4-8 years should now anything about intercourse.


'Sabrina's vagina becomes moist and warm and Marco's penis gets very stiff. Marco then pushes his penis into Sabrina's vagina.

'Always in and out. That feels great for both of them. When the feeling is nicest, Marco's penis sprays semen into Sabrina's vagina.

'That's how you get babies,' Toby said.'

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...hildren-young-FOUR-frankly-describes-sex.html

 

[Beverley Macker]

Yes I'm wearing blue

Are you sure you aren’t a boy?

 

[Liptastic]

THIS.

I responded to a call-out from the local women's hospital where I had my daughter, to be part of a focus group on how to improve services. A lot of the discussion points were about transmen and gender nonsense. I told them to concentrate on funnelling funds into things that are actually necessary - breastfeeding support, and research into why birth outcomes are lower for black women.

I work in the maternity policy together with NHS and I'm so glad to say that majority of funding is going to research into why birth outcomes are lower for black women and south asian women, there are 2 enquiries that have been launched now.

 

[callurdadurinacult]

In Target today to get my youngest some summer clothes, and came across this shirt. It's an XS, which translates to ages 4-5.

 

[emmer_moans]

I just feel like shouting from the rooftops that: -

WITHOUT THE BINARY BIOLOGICAL SEX OF OUR BODIES, NONE OF US WOULD EFFING EXIST. Whether individually we are gay, straight, bi, we, as a species, would not physically exist without sperm from MALES and EGGS and GESTATION from FEMALES. When I see these absolute lunatics spouting things like “men and marginalised genders”, I think humankind has hit it’s intelligence limit/wall. I don’t think we can advance any further because deep down, inherently in our human behaviour, I think we are self-sabotaging. This gender ideology crap is sending us back to the stone ages. We like to think we are clever, but society can be sooooo dumb. I’m angry today, can’t you tell?!

How can we as a species manage to calculate the maths to send people to the moon and collide microscopic particles, but we have politicians walking around saying men can be female? The virtue signalling discourse is, in my opinion, no more sophisticated than our ancestors from the witch hunt ages, going after people for fictitious wrongs. Argh!

TLDR: Humankind is really rather stupid sometimes. We can’t seem to get over innate sense of entitlement and validation.

Edit to add, I feel for LGB community who have to put up with being overshadowed by the LOOK AT ME TRAs and MRAs.

 

[maytoseptember]

OMG, that’s like entry-level “taking your fetish to work”. Getting off on everyone around you not knowing you’re wearing “panties” () and having a boner at your desk. A teacher. And he’s putting it on social media using “non-binary” as a shield!

This is what gender ideology has brought in. Perverts bringing their paraphilias to work and expecting applause for it.

Remember the guy at the NSPCC wearing rubber under his clothes and filming himself wanking in the toilets?

Why are kids always involved too?