Gender Discussion #26

[CookieZippy]

It looks great!

 

[klarakluckbag]

Our local FB group has organised several "Walks for men", which are targeted towards men who may be struggling with their MH, especially after the pandemic, or if they just want to get out of the house, get some exercise, and maybe meet some new friends. All very laudable, and the male walking group does appear to be a success.

They have now started a walking group for "Women and Non-Binary people". There were a couple of comments which made me think that people are starting to peak, including one which said "Do you mean just non-binary women? Or do men have to be included too?". The organiser, clearly trying to cover her backside, wittered on about "Anyone who feels that they don't belong to a particular gender, is welcome". etc etc.

This annoyed me so much, I had to sit on my hands to stop myself from replying. I work in the NHS, I can't rant about this fuckwittery on FB, I'd be outed within a day.

But why can't we have a women-only group? Why can't the "non-binary" folk walk with the men's group? (Let's face it, most of them are gonna be men, we all know that ) Why can't they have their own walking group. Why do women ALWAYS have to accommodate them, but the men get their own, separate space?

 

[petitspois]

Sarah Phillimore was on LBC earlier rebutting the idea that gender dysphoria should be acted upon. Some goon on Twitter then pipes up with the 'be kind' bollocks and someone responded with this:

'It’s not kind to affirm a persons disordered perceptions. Agreeing with the anorexic that they’re fat, the schizophrenic that the voices are real, or the transgender person that they’ve changed sex - none of these are kind and we will reap the consequences if we do.'

Quite right too.

 

[Ekathrina]

Women have been the butt of comedians jokes for years in the guise of mother in laws, Karens, women drivers and all manner of other misogynistic stereotypes so perhaps it’s time trans women just sucked it up and accepted it. Like we’ve had to.

 

[BlairWaldorf86]

I’m afraid to say I just find things like this really disturbing. I will never get my head around why, if these people hate their female bodies so much they’re willing to chop their breasts off, they aren’t triggered by carrying and birthing a baby. It’s pure attention seeking and they need help.

 

[aliensrescuemepls]

I just wanted to share a couple of thoughts I’ve been having lately with you all.

As I was growing up, in a predominantly white area as a black girl, I always felt like I didn’t fit into the ‘black stereotypes’. I didn’t like rap/grime, I dressed emo, I wasn’t loud. People at school used to call me an oreo, say I was black on the outside and white on the inside because I didn’t fit their stereotypes of what being black is! Of course, it’s outrageous and there is not one way of being black, just like there’s not one way of being a woman. I, coincidentally, also felt I was different to other girls, a total ‘not like other girls’ kinda girl.

What’s preposterous is that in this day and age, I know if I grew up how I did then, I’d be able to identify out of being a girl. I think all of this confusion in the name of progressiveness would have made me excited to show how woke I am and how not like other girls I am! Guys look, I’m non binary! That would so be me.

But I could never ever ever identify out of being black. Yes, both my race and my sex have negative stereotypes and the world will not be as kind to me all of the time but isn’t it interesting how we look down on Rachel Dolezal and Oli London as total idiots? Why on earth is gender now allowed to be a costume how those two have put on different races as a costume? How Rachel took a black woman’s role is reminiscent how these TiM’s are taking women’s trophies in sports and other opportunities from women.

All in all, bottom line is that I’m terrified for the future generation that are currently growing up. I’m angry that instead of rejecting stereotypes of how they should be they are instead rejecting womanhood. There isn’t one way of being anything; we’re all vastly complex people with personalities, thoughts and feelings… embrace the hand you’ve been dealt and be proud of who you currently are, THAT is truly embracing your authentic self! NOT pumping hormones or getting double mastectomies as a teenager. How could that be the true you?!

Love to you all!

 

[smellyfootballboots]

@Sheabutter

There have not been trans gender people for years, not at all.

The have always been a few (and they are very, very, few in number) transsexuals. Transsexuals are people who have usually suffered terrible trauma and that brought on various mental illnesses. If after extensive therapy (at least 5 years) they still felt the need to live as the opposite sex, then they had to live as that sex for at least 2 years under strict medical and psychological supervision. Then, surgeries would be performed and these people had to sign various declarations that the surgeries did not change their sex, they were purely cosmetic. This would take anything from 7-10 years. In the UK there remains around 4000 legal transsexuals. These are the people who want to live their lives quietly and blend into society as much as possible. These are the people you are thinking of

In 2004 the UK government brought in the GRA. This gave these transsexuals the ability to change their sex (Lie) on the most important documents anyone ever holds (the GRC). In 2011 the Gender Equality Law was brought in to include transsexuals. Months after the GEL was passed the NHS brought in Annex B*.

Stonewall have mis-sold the law. They have told companies that self ID is law and that you must honour and affirm anyone who declares a different identity and provide various accommodations to those people as if they hold a GRC. Education establishments, the NHS and the police force, are just some of the organisations who are particularly captured by Stonewall and and their misrepresentation of the law. Stonewall have become so powerful, prevalent and unchecked in their practices, this is how we have arrived at the current gender horror show we are at now.

Stonewall class transphobia as any questioning of gender identity or rejection of stonewall law. So, accordingly, biology is hateful and transphobic. Stonewall, a charity that was established to get same sex attraction established in law (as it should be), no longer promotes homosexuality but same gender attraction. Men can be lesbians at any given time to suit themselves and lesbians are fully expected to go along with this and the same for women identifying as men and wanting to date gay men. Frankly it is absurd.

Stonewall heavily promotes self ID. So anyone can get up at any time and say "today I am XXX" and change that status later according to their mood. Which is fine, but self ID means when that person does that they gain the rights and access to the sex they are self identifying into; which is not fine. This is the problem, it is not law and Stonewall are telling their patrons it is. (See link)

Trans rights are not human rights. In the UK trans identified people already have the right to live and work as they please free of harassment and fear of losing employment or their homes. It is not a human right to be able to ID yourself into the opposite sex and expect to be accepted as that sex and gain access to spaces, wards, prison units, rape crisis centres and so on as if you are that sex. That is not a right, it is a demand. Usually a very, over entitled, male one.

So, this is the issue. *Trans Rights* are a lie. They already have all their rights. Transgender demands wholeheartedly conflict and impose on women's rights. Women should be allowed to have spaces away from men. Just as men should be allowed to have spaces away from women.

There are women being raped on NHS wards by self ID TiM's and lied to about males on the ward. This was discussed in the House of Lords. (See link)

There are girls being raped in mixed sex bathrooms at school. (See link)

There are women in prison units being locked in cells with intact males, some who are convicted rapists who Self ID'd after they are arrests/convicted. (See link)

As I stated earlier to you TiM's and TiF's are not in anyway victimised by the general public (eye rolling doesn't count in the real world). There have been zero rapes (none ever reported) and no murders of Trans identified people since 2008 (and that was by their sexual partner). In the meantime there are an average of 88 rapes reported by women everyday in the UK and 3-4 women are murdered each week. (figures from .gov.uk website)

Now, I'm not suggesting that TiM's are all rapists, but many certainly are larpers. (see photo) When women were issued single sex spaces there was no suggestion that ALL men would harm women but there was the acknowledgement that some would. This has not changed and we know male offending patterns do no change with identity.

You cannot change your sex, and just because you are happy to allow men in single sex spaces, does not mean that other women are and those spaces are not yours to give away. All women matter in women's rights and yes, men are completely excluded from that, because they are men.

ETA: I haven't touched on men taking jobs, awards, sports, accolades, scholarships etc away from women, but I'm hoping you may start to see the problem as a whole and not just a bathroom issue.

*Annex B
This policy is operated on the basis of gender self-identification, based on an annex to the policy, 'Annex B', which tells hospitals that they must allow people to chose to be in opposite-sex wards if they identify as transgender or non- binary.

I have added links below. I really hope you read them and a screenshot explaining what an AGP is. They are all true. Ultimately, a man can never be a woman and is it kind to indulge a mental illness?

Verifying Device

https://sex-matters.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Reviewing-Annex-B.pdf

Former British MP Claims Ten NHS Patients Victimized in Single-sex Wards

Advocates claim 2019 NHS guidance on gender identity undermines purpose of single-sex accommodations

4w.pub

Former British MP Claims Ten NHS Patients Victimized in Single-sex Wards

Advocates claim 2019 NHS guidance on gender identity undermines purpose of single-sex accommodations

4w.pub

https://www.archive.is/oldest/https...assaulted-transgender-rapist-womens-jail.html

Female Prisoners in UK Forced to Shower with Intact Males

Three women speak out on inhumane conditions, harassment, and censorship inside UK women's prisons under new gender-identity policies

4w.pub

UPDATE: "Skirt Wearing" Rapist in Loudoun County Placed on Sex Offender Registry for LIFE

UPDATE 01/13/22: The parents of the first victim spoke to the Daily Mail and stated that they had requested the boy not be sent to prison, and instead put into a rehabilitative residential treatment program. Jessica Smith, the mother of the girl who was raped in the Stone

4w.pub

Four Reasons To Stop Saying “Gender Dysphoria”

The vague and sexist concept creates the very symptoms it claims to describe

4w.pub

 

[Platformcrocs]

This was the first thing that came to mind tbh. Isn't it fun being a woman

 

[petitspois]

You're not a minority, you're a white man.

 

[skronkywildcat]

Oh am shaking a bit. At an outdoor activities centre and the instructor said to my kids to use which ever changing room felt right - where they were going to get naked and change into swim stuff. He said he’d been told to say that as it was ‘the law’ I set him right about the exemptions and said ‘I don’t want her going into a changing room where she’s going to see cocks’. He said he didn’t know the law. Think I will write to the company’s head office. Proud for standing up for girls’ safety though.

Edit - the four changing rooms were men, boys, women and girls - so if a man said he was a girl I’m assuming they would have let him go in.

 

[nothanksbabes]

In case anyone had doubt that the interview was a temporary moment of amnesia, Stella is continuing to make her stance very clear this morning

It fucking is required when over 400 rapes have been recorded as committed by women though isn't it, Stella?

I'm so fucking tired of this debate. They trot out the same shite about dignity and erasure constantly. Nobody is saying trans people aren't entitled to the same rights as everyone else - homes, jobs, the NHS, whatever. Every person in the UK should (and does) have the same entitlement to these things in the law.

Compelling the rest of us to pander their delusions that women can have pensies is not a human right. I've been gaslit in an abusive relationship before into questioning the reality I can observe with my own eyes and it isn't happening again.

 

[Rustyflipflops]

I have lived half a century post transition. I have far more rights now than I had for the first 30 of those.

But it is in many ways far worse now than then because of this call for rights that I do not understand and the perception of entitlement it is creating .

What this is really all about is demanding rights without consequence and simply on demand. Which nobody anywhere should have the right to expect.

Current rights exist in a check and balance scenario. You have to demonstrate legitimate need to transition, explore all options that do NOT involve doing so and if you choose to go on even so to be approved by doctors and psychiatrists as stable and realistic about the conseqemnces. And accept that there are boundaries you should not cross.

Transsexuals have lived under those conditions for decades very happily. We have not sought more.

But transgender ideology has arrived and sees this social bond as too restrictive and want no balance or barriers and no requirement to prove anything. Just to state what they are without needing to have reason and the law to then agree without question.

Unsurprisingly society has no big issue with reasonable integration as we have had before but many issues with removal of all checks and balances as it opens up the law to being abused without comeback. And it also offers no protection to those seeking to transition legally if they only have to state their desire and not have to prove legitimate need or evidence they have attempted less drastic steps first.

Self ID is simply something you cannot do when changing legal status. It harms all sides.

You cannot legally declare you can fly 200 people on a plane and be allowed to do this without good evidence of why you should.

You cannot legally operate on someone who needs life saving surgery because you read Gray's Anatomy once but have no qualifications.

There are many things where you have to show evidence of need to do and sound reason for doing it along with proof of genuine intent. And where there are necessary call backs that society can apply that protect society from abuse of the law.

Right now the GRA offers those checks and balances and safeguards.

Self ID removes them all and asks everyone just to trust that the rest of the world will be sincere and unthreatening with the open door provided.

It should always be seen as a right to live your life as you wish. Do it. Try it. See how it works out.

It should never be seen as a right to legally become accepted in that life by anyone who chooses not to accept you. If they wish to disagree they should have no come back for saying so.

The right way is to create the compromise that we have created. The GRA is gatekept and not self declared in the UK today. It grants the ability to live within society in non obtrusive ways that are not compelled onto others and do have opt outs where in necessary circumstances - such as sports, all women short lists or rape crisis centres, exclusion is deemed reasonable.

That is what balanced rights in a fair society should be set up to achieve.

We have that now.

We would not have that if self ID was introduced as that is no longer a fair balance. It is heavily weighted to one side only and even if not abused by the vast majority of people is clearly going to be abused sooner or later by someone as it leaves that opportunity open by way of depending on honesty alone. And as we all know not every person IS honest.

Long time lurker, but I feel I'd like to reply to you

You always write very eloquently and clearly and that is nice to read. However, I'm not sorry that both the GRC from 2004 and the GRA from 2011 must be repealed. Why? Because women never gave their approval, we weren't even consulted. Women's groups who did put in reports on safeguarding concerned were ignored and overlooked. The risk to women was acknowledge but considered acceptable. I don't agree and today, many don't agree.

The current horror show is indeed forcing this subject into the media and political spotlight and you must be concerned, because eventually this will affect you too. I have been following this for over 10 years and it is only now that people like yourselves are speaking. You was silent for so long, far too long. In the week, I got speaking on FB with a lilac lipstick wearing *transsexual* called Faith-something-or-other. He was calm-ish, annoyed that I saw him as no different to the gender crowd, he wouldn't have it that in my opinion he didn't have any right to be in female only spaces because he was post op. And that therein lies the problem. You are men, it is a black and white situation that is easily resolved. We have to say no to men's demands/wants when it comes to laws for women. Now, I get that you have lived as your interpretation of how a woman lives for decades. I understand that you have had the cosmetic surgeries, probably taken the hormones and I sincerely hoped it helped you personally; but women need protecting and that is why we have single sex spaces. Allowing Men into the removes our sanctuary and makes them mixed sex spaces. That is against our human rights. Men rape and kill us every minute of everyday, it's quite a global problem.

I would have been 30 in 2004 and if I have been asked if I was willing to allow males to wear womanface and larp as women with unfettered access female only spaces, I would have said no. I'd have been 37 in 2011 and I'd still have said no. Today I am 48, I have a 17 year old daughter to look out for, and this time women know what is happening and we WILL be heard and we are SCREAMING a flat no.

I am sorry, that people like yourself will be affected, but there is no compromise that can be made. The governments at the time, really should never have allowed such a nonsense to happen. That said, I'm not sorry enough to to keep the current 'pro-male feelings are priority' status quo. Women are being locked in prison cells with convicted rapists and given condoms, women are being raped on NHS wards and lied to, children are being brainwashed, sterilised and mutilated. Women are not birthing bodies, menstruators, cervix havers, birthing parents, we are women. A masked man assaulted a women at a suffragette statue last weekend and the police told her if she didn't leave she would be arrested for breach of the peace! Didn't even talk to the masked man. That's is disgusting.

Enough is enough and as I said to Faith, if you cannot see that women are being seriously harmed (mentally, physically, societally) to accommodate male wants, and you are not willing to go quietly, then you need to check your misogyny. Trans brings nothing to the table for women.

 

[judgejohndeed]

Katy montomgery sharing this on Twitter I feel sick this isn’t normal no matter what those idiots on twitter say

Very interesting that women who breastfeed are told to avoid eating certain things when breastfeeding, but when it's a man 'breastfeeding' it's absolutely fine to pass on the chemicals that have induced that 'feeding'...I bet there's no research on the effects of babies ingesting those chemicals either. It's child abuse.

 

[weeweegie]

You’re right. The pick me’s. So desperate for male approval, even when said males are larping as them.

That’s why I take issue with females who say they are non binary or trans men. It’s the ‘don’t treat me like a woman’ attitude. It’s such an insult to women. Do they think we like being patronised, spoken down to and mansplained to every goddam day?? I don’t get why they think they are special.

Also, on a personal note(without going into too much detail) I’ve been having painful gynaecological issues these past few months and just keep thinking, THIS is what a woman is. Not make up, not dresses, not being all coy and lady like, it’s the physical reality of being a woman which for most of our lives involves pain. And instead of respect we get misogyny. Gaslighted. It could just be the intense pain in my ovaries talking right now but I couldn’t give a shit how someone identifies - if you are a man you are not, and never can be, a woman. And if you actually knew the pain we go through (and I’m only talking physical here, the emotional/mental load is a whole other thing), then you would never want to be one. As it is you want the fluffy bits, the lipstick and the tights there is so much more to being a woman but you will never know.

Writing this for the TRA lurkers that I’m sure read here.

 

[a.pain]

Not a regular poster on this thread but have been looking at these threads lately as I’ve been thinking the concept of transgender over recently, probably because of the media and things I’ve seen. Trying to establish what my stance is. I’ve just seen one of those Reddit am I the asshole articles and been reading the comments (can of worms), in short it was a mother who had a diamond necklace which was traditionally passed through the family to first born daughter- was about to be given to 17yo daughter, when 18 yo who was first son who had transitioned to female 4 years ago laid a claim on it saying they were now first born daughter. Got to reading an argument between two people, one who was saying things I think I agree with but then was being called transphobic and close minded because they said that biological sex was determined by your sex organs at birth. A widely accepted concept no? How else is it decided babies don’t identify as anything. I know there are some people who raise their babies gender neutral but legally they are still one or the other? Is this a thing now where what physical body you have is literally irrelevant and me saying my daughters are my daughters because they were born with vulvas is transphobic? I’m so confused. I don’t want to be anything phobic really but reading by what sort of views would label me this I think I am honestly my views are if someone wants to transition and it makes them happy I’m all for it but I see it as a type of body modification. I wouldn’t treat anyone as a lesser person because of it, but I don’t think artificially changing your appearance and hormones makes you into the genuine article. Changing rooms and toilets seem to be the hot topic, would I feel more comfortable changing for swimming next to a trans man or a trans woman? Well it becomes more complicated here I guess. I have a lot of different ‘if this’ elements that change my answer. Feels all a bit overwhelming to be honest.
Oh and yes I agree with JK Rowling that the word woman is being erased. Honestly feel like this is something I’d be afraid to say out loud. And I think of myself as relatively progressive and accepting. At the end of the day I don’t understand it but I’ll treat everyone with compassion and respect. What that looks like though is a mystery to me right now however.

 

[Scotch Mist]

Piers Morgan has weighed in with this now!

I do love this comment I found

"I hope my wife never comes home with a penis. She'd probably get one bigger than mine too, just to annoy me."

 

[Scotch Mist]

I went down to Speakers Corner in Hyde Park today because I thought 'Standing for Women' were going to be there. Disappointingly they weren't but there was a man who was campaigning there against gender ideology especially focusing on the prison issues. I had a good chat with him and we generally agreed about what's going on.

We were then approached by a young woman who called us both transphobic (of course) and she said we had to accept trans women. She then called me a Cis woman. I told her that I didn't identify as a cis woman - just a woman. She replied that I was out of touch and would just have to accept it.

The man (to his credit) then asked her why my feelings didn't matter and she walked off!
It would seem that women really are the worst enemies against their own sex.

 

[nothanksbabes]

So embarrassing! “Hey guys! I’m so much better than ordinary people. I find that I need to be attracted to someone’s personality and sense of humour before I want to date them. Unlike normies who literally only care about genitals”

I wish I'd known about this, because I've just been having relationships with the first penis I stumble upon.

It's pure good fortune that my boyfriend has a wonderful personality and beautiful face as well as his giant cock eh.

Honestly, these fucking dumbfuck, self-congratulatory pansexual gender melons can fuck off.

 

[nothanksbabes]

My work's learning and development team have announced a "workshop" about "femininity" and what it means to us and the "future of femininity". Run by the one trans woman at work, who does not work in L&D and presumably has zero qualifications beyond "lived experience".

I'd join to see what's what but I need to keep my job.

 

[judgejohndeed]

'Healthcare' is a bit of misnomer here, as is 'need'. Trans people in the UK are legally just as entitled to medical care and treatment, which is clinically indicated for them, as everyone else. What they might not get is stuff like double mastectomies, which they do not 'need' in a clinical sense, but seem to think that 'want' means 'need'. In a lot of cases I would say trans people are actually getting a lot more by way of informal 'rights' than everyone else now. Didn't someone post just the other day about an employer offering more time off for 'gender affirming care'? In the majority of workplaces, if you chose to have cosmetic surgery you would not be entitled to time off, you would need to take annual leave. But for something related to gender you can have more leave? It also seems like every few days on Twitter there's a new case where someone at work has been suspended over a single complaint of transphobia, at the complainant's say so.