I think a lot of adopted children or kids who grew up with loving step parents would put this theory in the bin (along with the low level homophobia underlying a lot of the rage directed at a sister being a surrogate for her brother and his husband).Children who are not raised by their mothers, regardless of the reason, feel rejected and suffer phycological issues later in life.
Can a Child without a Mother be Raised Normally? | babyMed.com
Sometimes, there are circumstances that force the father into the role of primary or sole caregiver. If you are a father in such a position, you probably have countless questions about your child’s development.www.babymed.com
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As I'm infertile, I had my mum and my best friend offer to carry a child for me. I immediately said I greatly valued their love and beautiful gesture but would never allow another woman to be a surrogate for me. There was no expectation or pressure from me/my husband (who was genuinely horrified at the mere concept) but it's definitely "A Thing" for women to feel a weird social pressure that they should offer to be a surrogate. I since had two other more people say they'd be a surrogate if I wanted and my friendships with them were much slighter to the extent they are not even in my life a few years later. It just made me feel very uncomfortable. Babies and their mum's belong together. My kids are adopted and their bio mums' rights were terminated for very good reasons but I still feel devastated for my kids and their bio mums that they were parted even though it was the right choice.
There is a huge community of adoptees who would disagree with you. I'm adopted, had a loving family who raised me as their own and I still have complex ptsd as a result which has impacted every bit of my life, and I spent years struggling and feeling unable to talk about it because I was so "lucky" to have a family who loved me and to have avoided foster care and all anyone ever said was "oh how lovely" when I told them I was adopted and I was terrified of looking ungrateful.
I found out in my 30s there are thousands upon thousands of adoptees who struggled just like me. It's taken years of therapy to even try and unpick it all, that I still can't talk to my parents about because I love them and don't want to hurt them. And I'm one of tbe lucky ones.
The idea that someone would deliberately recreate what happened to me is abhorrent to me, no matter if they're the most wonderful parents in the world.
I really object to the suggestion that there’s ‘underlying homophobia’ here as well, I don’t agree with surrogacy for any couple, it’s absolutely nothing to do with them being gay men. I would say the same no matter the make up of the couple and I’m pretty confident other posters expressing the same concerns would too.
Did anything come of your complaint or were you just accused of transphobia?
I agree. No homophobia from me here, surrogacy for ANYONE seems so wrong to me.
This was about 18 months ago before I’d properly peaked, but I spoke to HR in confidence and the guy did seem to get what I meant and said they’d be re-writing the “trans policy” He seemed almost scared of saying too much.
We’re not a Stonewall golf partner, but Stonewall is very much embedded there, so you have to tread carefully. I’ve just been keeping a weather eye on the goings-on for a while, but will raise it again shortly.
We’re not a Stonewall golf partner, but Stonewall is very much embedded there, so you have to tread carefully. I’ve just been keeping a weather eye on the goings-on for a while, but will raise it again shortly.
Going to try and voice my thoughts on surrogacy, might be rambley, bear with 
Firstly, I am completely against 'renting' a womb of a woman (especially a wealthy couple using a surrogate in a poor country). What really peaked me was when Kim Kardashian used a surrogate for her later pregnancies, it felt icky at the time but I wasn't sure why. I know it's sad when woman can't carry children or gay couples can't have biological children, but sadly that's life and life's not fair
a woman's body is NOT for rent, it's not just an incubator where the baby grows and then pops out with no attachment to the woman who grew it. And it's so wrong that a human can BUY another human to grow their offspring. To me that's on a par to slavery.
Where it gets murky to me is a family member offers to help out. I don't know if my sister was struggling with infertility, would I offer as I love her more than anything? But that opens a whole new can of worms. What happens if after growing the baby for 9 months I don't want to hand them over and decide to keep it (as I'm sure is allowed in UK law). What happens if the baby is disabled and my sister turned around and said she didn't want it? What if something happened to me? Could my sister live with the guilt? I know I couldn't if it was the other way round. And all those situations are based on me offering purely out of love. What about if I was very poor, struggling to pay rent or put food on the table, and my sister was very wealthy and would pay my expenses for 9 months for me, that surely changes everything and by having surrogacy legal it opens up poor women to being exploited, even if it's by their family.
Not sure if any of this makes sense.
Firstly, I am completely against 'renting' a womb of a woman (especially a wealthy couple using a surrogate in a poor country). What really peaked me was when Kim Kardashian used a surrogate for her later pregnancies, it felt icky at the time but I wasn't sure why. I know it's sad when woman can't carry children or gay couples can't have biological children, but sadly that's life and life's not fair
a woman's body is NOT for rent, it's not just an incubator where the baby grows and then pops out with no attachment to the woman who grew it. And it's so wrong that a human can BUY another human to grow their offspring. To me that's on a par to slavery.Where it gets murky to me is a family member offers to help out. I don't know if my sister was struggling with infertility, would I offer as I love her more than anything? But that opens a whole new can of worms. What happens if after growing the baby for 9 months I don't want to hand them over and decide to keep it (as I'm sure is allowed in UK law). What happens if the baby is disabled and my sister turned around and said she didn't want it? What if something happened to me? Could my sister live with the guilt? I know I couldn't if it was the other way round. And all those situations are based on me offering purely out of love. What about if I was very poor, struggling to pay rent or put food on the table, and my sister was very wealthy and would pay my expenses for 9 months for me, that surely changes everything and by having surrogacy legal it opens up poor women to being exploited, even if it's by their family.
Not sure if any of this makes sense.
I was the one who brought it up and can assure you there was no homophobia on my part, or "rage" as you're claiming. Simply pointing out that I don't think surrogacy is right, and that also applies to heterosexual couples. Even if it's truly altruistic, you can't deny that it puts a strain on a woman's body and it is ultimately her who is at risk.
Yehs, I always wonder what would happen if the woman, imagining the worst, was seriously injured or died in childbirth acting as a surrogate for someone. It is a total minefield, as someone else said what if the woman refused to then give away the child/the family refused to take it for whatever reason
I think with anything that involves using a woman's body, whether that surrogacy or entertaining, is simply just that - using a woman's body. For me women's bodies should never be used in such a way.
When I escorted, I told myself I was doing it for me and me only. But I wasn't really. Sure I made a bit of cash but it was men who were benefitting from using my body. Its very similar with surrogacy. Women are providing physical and emotional labour to help someone else. Like someone said earlier, we are conditioned to do so and told we need to tow the line from a young age.
I don't deny there will be surrogates who genuinely do it for altruistic reasons. But how can you ever know if the surrogate is doing it out of love? I don't think you can. There are too many women who are exploited and these stories about celebs having babies via surrogate (whether that's Brian from BB or Kim Kardashian) only normalise surrogacy. At the end of the day, no matter how lovely or heartwarming the story is... They are still using a woman's body. People aren't ready to hear that though.
When I escorted, I told myself I was doing it for me and me only. But I wasn't really. Sure I made a bit of cash but it was men who were benefitting from using my body. Its very similar with surrogacy. Women are providing physical and emotional labour to help someone else. Like someone said earlier, we are conditioned to do so and told we need to tow the line from a young age.
I don't deny there will be surrogates who genuinely do it for altruistic reasons. But how can you ever know if the surrogate is doing it out of love? I don't think you can. There are too many women who are exploited and these stories about celebs having babies via surrogate (whether that's Brian from BB or Kim Kardashian) only normalise surrogacy. At the end of the day, no matter how lovely or heartwarming the story is... They are still using a woman's body. People aren't ready to hear that though.
I’m completely against surrogacy as well. For everyone. I think gay men are being used to the media to push surrogacy and there are far more straight couples renting wombs and purchasing babies. I have always loved Brian and he probably thinks it is a great idea that his sister is doing that for them.
To me the woman who gives birth is the mother regardless of dna. Women create babies, they don’t just grow in a bubble. Our blood and food nourish the baby, our skeletons change to accommodate, they even take the calcium out of our teeth if they need it and we grow a whole organ (placenta) for them to thrive from. It’s not a detached process, no matter how hard people try to convince themselves that it is.
No one can control what the child thinks about surrogacy when they grow up. They may think it’s great, they may feel like a commodity that was sold to their parents. I know the longing for a child but the fertility industry can turn people into monsters.
To me the woman who gives birth is the mother regardless of dna. Women create babies, they don’t just grow in a bubble. Our blood and food nourish the baby, our skeletons change to accommodate, they even take the calcium out of our teeth if they need it and we grow a whole organ (placenta) for them to thrive from. It’s not a detached process, no matter how hard people try to convince themselves that it is.
No one can control what the child thinks about surrogacy when they grow up. They may think it’s great, they may feel like a commodity that was sold to their parents. I know the longing for a child but the fertility industry can turn people into monsters.
it is interesting that there is not more investigation about this, it would be interesting to see studies about people who have been born as surroagtes and see the long term effects. D
itto adoption, sorry I don't remember who posted before about being adopted and suffering ptsd as a result, this had genuinley never occurred to me and I am surprised there is not more research about it. For me I find it crazy that, in the UK, (unlses I am wrong) you have to have psychiatric assessment to have an abortion but not be a surrogate
It really does. There is a very pervasive sense of entitlement around children. Nobody is entitled to have a child and certainly not when it involves exploiting another human being in the process.
One of my cousins is VERY well off. She lives in America. She has 2 children naturally and wanted to expand her family. Didn't conceive naturally or through two rounds of IVF so got a surrogate and now has twins.
It feels proper icky to me. It's bad enough when people can't have kids naturally (be that from fertility issues or being a gay couple so missing some vital pieces of anatomy) but the fact she already has 2 kids is what swings it for me.
The kids she has are bought up by nannies so why add to that?? Just enjoy what you have and accept you aren't going ti have any more kids
It feels proper icky to me. It's bad enough when people can't have kids naturally (be that from fertility issues or being a gay couple so missing some vital pieces of anatomy) but the fact she already has 2 kids is what swings it for me.
The kids she has are bought up by nannies so why add to that?? Just enjoy what you have and accept you aren't going ti have any more kids
The end goal of having a child just eclipses everything. And because there are so many things that are available now, if you have the money you can buy a child.
off topic slightly. But a few years ago I worked with someone who had twins. After a while she told me that both her and her husband were infertile so they had gone to a clinic in Spain for fertility treatment.They had used a sperm donor and an egg donor (both anonymous) and had their twins. I just accepted that as fairly normal at the time. But years later I’m thinking those children will never know their genetic parents and those two donors will have likely have never met. So two people created an embryo without having ever met face to face. I realise this is completely off topic but i can’t get my head around it. They really were bought. I can empathise with the parents as that was their chance to experience pregnancy ect. But what might the kids think when they grow up?
Surprise surprise, a bloke who wants to break down other peoples’ boundaries and right to privacy is a sex offender.
As for surrogacy, there’s no way anyone who doesn’t see women as objects and/or feels an extreme level of entitlement towards others would use a surrogate.
As for surrogacy, there’s no way anyone who doesn’t see women as objects and/or feels an extreme level of entitlement towards others would use a surrogate.
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Some agencies in the US have a clause where if you miscarry you have to pay your own medical bills!Going to try and voice my thoughts on surrogacy, might be rambley, bear with
Firstly, I am completely against 'renting' a womb of a woman (especially a wealthy couple using a surrogate in a poor country). What really peaked me was when Kim Kardashian used a surrogate for her later pregnancies, it felt icky at the time but I wasn't sure why. I know it's sad when woman can't carry children or gay couples can't have biological children, but sadly that's life and life's not fair
Where it gets murky to me is a family member offers to help out. I don't know if my sister was struggling with infertility, would I offer as I love her more than anything? But that opens a whole new can of worms. What happens if after growing the baby for 9 months I don't want to hand them over and decide to keep it (as I'm sure is allowed in UK law). What happens if the baby is disabled and my sister turned around and said she didn't want it? What if something happened to me? Could my sister live with the guilt? I know I couldn't if it was the other way round. And all those situations are based on me offering purely out of love. What about if I was very poor, struggling to pay rent or put food on the table, and my sister was very wealthy and would pay my expenses for 9 months for me, that surely changes everything and by having surrogacy legal it opens up poor women to being exploited, even if it's by their family.
Not sure if any of this makes sense.
Two friends have liked/shared this post...
Very surprised by one of them. At least I know to watch myself around her now
Very surprised by one of them. At least I know to watch myself around her now
Art.Feminist and Feminist are both run by this guy
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