Gender Discussion #14

[l_j_m]

Hi! New to this thread but have been reading on and off for a few weeks now. It's been a bit of an eye opener. Plenty I don't agree with but to my surprise, plenty that I do agree with. I'm part of the LGBT community and I am I guess a trans ally, to a point. I have a trans family member and friends. I've been slowly growing more and more uncomfortable with a lot of things I see on social media and in the news. I think the MMA fight has pushed me over the edge though.

It's opened up a lot of discussion between my partner and I, and a few arguments! I think as a member of the community it's become quite difficult for us to have an opinion and to go against the tide.

Just dipping my toes in really and wanted to say hi.

 

[Satisfying Click]

David Paisley now saying he’s going to leave Scotland as he no longer feels safe. Attention seeking creep, as a Scottish female i no longer feel safe due to what this totalitarian Scottish gov are trying to pull. He’s an arse.

Talk about fishing for support. I was stalked by an ex, and when you feel unsafe, and I mean really unsafe (to the point you check every room and cupboard in your home to make sure he's not there waiting for you when you get in) you certainly don't announce your departure on Twitter

 

[maytoseptember]

Gender is literally bullshit. Gender is the expectation that your sex should dictate your outward presentation and behaviour.

 

[ManicMayz]

Urgh is there no where people can have a discussion about these issues without someone barging in and shouting transphobe

 

[Platformcrocs]

Pretty much sums it up. Hopefully Marion's case gets thrown out but it should have never come this far. She's just a normal woman who they're deliberately trying to wear down in the hope she concedes.

 

[Doc]

Sorry, I need to get this off my chest!

so a couple of teachers at my school was discussing their children’s start at senior school (11 years old).One of them said her daughter had a ftm classmate (remember, they’re 11!) who would be using the boys’ changing rooms for PE. They were both cooing about how progressive and marvellous it was.

I actually recoiled in horror. The entire conversation was about how open and progressive THEY were for thinking it was okay. These people are teachers.

Education staff really are selling vulnerable children and women down the river for their own egos. It’s so ill thought out, and they don’t come across counter arguments because it’s silenced by The Establishment. It fucking stinks.

 

[Cocobaby09]

I went to Holyrood today. Amazing turnout. Saw and hugged Marion, saw Glinner, various Tory MSPs (the only political representatives to come out and speak to us) great speakers and a wonderful atmosphere. Women Won’t Wheesht.

 

[AlanBanan]

Jameela Jamil just posted on insta.

She's trying to fight for women's rights without saying fucking WOMAN.

She's got no problem saying men though? Where's the inclusion for the women that get women pregnant? This new language format is so stupid, rude, discriminating. Why can she say men refering to people with penis but not woman when refering to people with uteruses.

Don’t even pay attention to her. She’s been proven to be a self serving pathological liar with a narcissistic complex multiple times

She bullies people with eating disorders, lied about having many illnesses, is constantly siding with men on women’s issues and describes herself as queer yet she’s a cis woman and female presenting who’s never been in a same sex relationship in her life.

She’s a fraud and an attention seeker. Just don’t pay her any attention.

 

[Cocobaby09]

David Paisley now saying he’s going to leave Scotland as he no longer feels safe. Attention seeking creep, as a Scottish female i no longer feel safe due to what this totalitarian Scottish gov are trying to pull. He’s an arse.

 

[Icing _on_ the_cake]

Well I missed a lot yesterday!

On pronouns...a year ago I thought misgendering was the height of awfulness. Now I rather feel that Posie has a point. Much damage can be done by politely lying rather than being brutally honest. Words matter. It's not bottom surgery, it's castration. It's not top surgery, it's a mastectomy. In the case of pronouns, I am being asked to collude in someone's belief about themselves. It's like being asked to talk about the earth being flat because otherwise it offends the feelings of the one flat earther in the group. It's not good for the person to be so disconnected from what is reality and, in the case of bad actors, like sex offenders announcing gender identities, there are a whole set of ramifications.

As Dumbledore says: "It is my belief that the truth is generally preferable to lies" or Carl Sagan: "better the hard truth than a comforting fantasy."

On this thread, I tend to stick to 'they' for trans-identified people as a balance, but I think the right to say 2+2=4 is an important one that we ought to be allowed to keep.

On the title on the thread, I don't know. I wandered on here last year expecting woke Millenials like myself raging against the evil TERFs...the thread ended up sewing the seeds of my peaking last year. There is perhaps value in the more open title of gender discussion.

 

[SILKWORM]

How many women who would proudly share a bathroom with a trans woman aren't really thinking about the sex pest at Wi Spa but the ~fabulous~ gay men who've transitioned.

And of course not every single trans woman is a predator, but there is a toxic culture surrounding trans women (mostly straight men who've transitioned and now call themselves lesbians) and their "girldicks" that makes predators like the one at Wi Spa feel comfortable doing what they're doing, knowing that they'll have people standing in their corner. We all saw the reaction about the Wi Spa incident after it was revealed the trans woman in question was a known predator. There was shockingly little condemnation from anyone but "TERFs".

I've said this too many times at this point, but, it's creating a perfect environment for predators to thrive and go unpunished.

 

[Meangirl815]

I jump in and out of reading this thread. And huge apologies in advance if this is the wrong place for this but i need a vent.

Back story first. I'm a 43yr old woman. History of PMDD. Hormone issues all my life. Fluctuations literally run my life. Is my day a good day or a bad day? Dunno it all depends on my hormones. Am i happy, sad, upset,angry, suicidal? Dunno it all depends on my hormones.
You get the picture.

Anyway I'm in surgical menopause. And suffering. I need to add back testerone alongside my estrogen.
Waited 2 months for GP appointment for referral. Waited 3 months for referral appointment. Gynae agreed to testerone depending on blood tests results. Now waiting for blood tests and caught up in the test tube shortage.
So my wait time is extended by at least another month. All the time I'm suffering. In every way possible

I'm sick of fighting. I'm so sick of nobody caring because at the end of the day my problems are 'women's issues'
I'm sick of having to have mental breakdowns in front of medical professionals to get HORMONES on prescription.

I'm tired.

 

[colouredlines]

There are many, many countries around the world where gender-non-conforming people, or LGB people, do indeed live in fear. I don't live in the UK, but I am confident it is not one of them.

Especially in light of what's been happening in Afghanistan this month, this is just horrendous bad taste. What a self-centred prick.

 

[ChilliBean]

I’m back in the office this week and noticed the women’s toilet was made “gEnDeR nEuTrAL” with about 4 different pictograms on the door but the men’s just has on the front. I might raise it at the staff meeting women aren’t put here to coddle the feelings of men.

I went to a club the other night that had male and “gender neutral” toilets but no ladies! And of course the men were using both!
Drunk men storming in and out of the same toilets that women are meant to use, I felt so uncomfortable

 

[no-no]

I’m back in the office this week and noticed the women’s toilet was made “gEnDeR nEuTrAL” with about 4 different pictograms on the door but the men’s just has on the front. I might raise it at the staff meeting women aren’t put here to coddle the feelings of men.

 

[maytoseptember]

This is absolutely horrifying.



Beggars belief that a perverted man chose a career in midwifery. Makes my skin crawl just thinking about it.

 

[ManicMayz]

My main sticking point with gender identity ideology is how deeply regressive it is. Children and adults who don't fit rigidly into the stereotypes of being a girl/woman or boy/man are being made to feel that they can't be their sex. I mean that's ridiculous! Your body is your body, your sex is your sex and your personality is your personality. And that's all there is. There's not some magical girl/boy essence. There are no wrong bodies just bodies. My son has some really complex medical issues is his body wrong? Of course it isn't! My Auntie has a crew cut, wears clothes from the mens section and has a wife - is her body wrong? Of course it isn't!
I personally see wrong pronouns as an extension of the lie that your body can be wrong for your personality and find it deeply uncomfortable. I'll be polite to people in person but that doesn't mean I agree with the concept. The flat earth example someone used earlier is a good example. It's a belief a vocal minority holds, but does that mean it should be blindly accepted and all structures of society and accepted science remodelled to accommodate it?
Another thing that makes me feel queasy is the rampant individualism of gender ideology. One person's belief trumping the needs of other people. This is why I'm confused about supposedly left leaning groups running with this without a thought. Doesn't this go against the core of their belief system? "The greatest good for the greatest number" or "there is no society only individual men and women" ... anyway that's enough from me today. Anymore ruminating and my brain might pop

 

[Scotch Mist]

She is a woman. But it seems i landed more in a trans men & women hate thread here.

This is not a 'hate' thread but a gender critical discussion. The women posting here believe in sex based rights.

 

[Apple In My Pie]

I don’t understand the whole non binary thing. It’s just ‘I don’t wear dresses I’m not like other girls’ repackaged IMO. My friend (female) is NB and uses they them pronouns exclusively. I say friend, they’re not any more because I was so scared of misgendering them (the one time I did accidentally was in a conversation with a mutual friend who threatened to stop being friends with me over it ans made me feel awful, saying ohhh X will be suicidal and upset and all this because you’ve misgendered them)… so I just stopped talking to them (and no FYI I didn’t tell them I thought non binary was a load of shit, I’m not evil. I just don’t get it.)

and surely you can’t ever escape the ‘binary’ because sex is binary, there’s only ever male or female, there’s no magical third sex to jump to if you decide you don't want to be a man or a woman or don’t identify with either - ‘cos tough titties, you‘re one or the other 🥲.

personally I think non binary is just a way for young impressionable teenage girls to opt out of womanhood, either in the sense that they’re anxious of the changes to their body or don’t want to be ogled at by men or viewed in a sexual way (I don’t think that’s the right term but I’m not sure how better to convey it) or as is the case with my ex NB friend don’t conform to the typical standards of ‘beauty’ imposed on women/young girls so opt out of it and identify as ‘other’ to protect themselves (‘well, this magazine says only skinny girls are pretty, I’m not a girl so this doesn’t count for me’) if that makes sense. I mean guys can be NB too but I’ve seen only a handful of guys who call themselves NB compared to girls who identify as NB and even then I think it’s a sense of ‘opting out’ of something.

 

[yeahyouhun]

I just can’t buy into the non binary stuff. I was putting some clothes away in my wardrobe yesterday and noticed that I’d worn a lot of dresses recently, when I usually wear trousers & T-shirt’s, this made me think of the ‘feminine & masculine days’ that these narcissistic, moany ‘non binary’ teenagers like to go on about on their tiktoks. Most teenage girls are miserable, bored and depressed at some point, they hate the way they look and dress, doesn’t this just come with being a teenager and new hormones? They want to feel different but also included in something, so they’ve jumped on the back of the trans bandwagon, and are enforcing their own personal choices on the rest of society. It’s literally like a bunch of goths insisting everyone wears black because colour offends them. I just hope this teenage bandwagon fizzles out and doesn’t lead to women losing their safe spaces.

As for changing the name of the thread title, I don’t think it should be changed. It’s not hard for someone to read through some posts and get a general idea of the discussion. I don’t think we should pander to people who didn’t get what they were expecting.

Also I’m not sorry if my blasé attitude offends anyone, I’m tired of watching my language in case of causing offence.